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Is an STS GT67 turbo kit good?

This is a discussion on Is an STS GT67 turbo kit good? within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; STS is a great starter kit and for the money you can't beat it!!!!!...

  1. #21
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    STS is a great starter kit and for the money you can't beat it!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by east TX muscle cars View Post
    Um , we install at least 1 of these kit a week on GTO's corvettes, just about anything. we have ZERO issues with the STS kits and all the kits now have a BOV and a INNER COOLER with them. We run oine on our shop car(05 vette) and it is a 1200HP car and is going to the track in a few weeks and we are shooting for the FIRST C6 in the 8's. they are a good kit IMO.

    I am talking specifically about the f-body kit, not the others.

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    I think that frost needs to chill out and realize that just because he didn't get his to work they are not all crap. Camaro, corvette, gto, mustang, trailblazer: All cars that the kit works just fine on with great results. LISTEN CLOSELY: BOOST IS BOOST so who cares where the turbo is as long as it's making WHP! Turbo kits are all very simple in operation so if you can't solve a problem you are having wether it's a design or installation error, you should probably buy a car like your sisters sunfire. Deal with it. People are making good HP With rear mounts and that's reality.

    STS = cheaper turbo kit / everyone else = THOUSANDS more! The difference for the thousands??? Yeah, the car spools hard at 2K instead of 3K(sts). The solution to make the sts kit perform the same? 2.5" piping and header-wrap. So you spent a couple hundred bucks more, big deal! Not everyone in the world wants a 10 grand FM turbo kit. People are taking all sorts of kits and making good power doing it. Don't hate on peoples kit preferences frost, your car will probably lose to one eventually.

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    and speaking of reliable power... My car has not had a "down" day since I put the turbo on, and when I go cruise(I live in minneapolis) All sorts of people come out of the wood work to admire the SS. One suggested we race and when I tried to set it up, he told me his front mount turbo f-body was "broken". I have never seen a FM turbo ls1 here out of the 2 mill people around. I sure hear and see rear mounted ones though.... Why is that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    I think that frost needs to chill out and realize that just because he didn't get his to work they are not all crap. Camaro, corvette, gto, mustang, trailblazer: All cars that the kit works just fine on with great results. LISTEN CLOSELY: BOOST IS BOOST so who cares where the turbo is as long as it's making WHP! Turbo kits are all very simple in operation so if you can't solve a problem you are having wether it's a design or installation error, you should probably buy a car like your sisters sunfire. Deal with it. People are making good HP With rear mounts and that's reality.

    STS = cheaper turbo kit / everyone else = THOUSANDS more! The difference for the thousands??? Yeah, the car spools hard at 2K instead of 3K(sts). The solution to make the sts kit perform the same? 2.5" piping and header-wrap. So you spent a couple hundred bucks more, big deal! Not everyone in the world wants a 10 grand FM turbo kit. People are taking all sorts of kits and making good power doing it. Don't hate on peoples kit preferences frost, your car will probably lose to one eventually.
    If you enjoy your STS good....but the question is are they worth it. I've seen too many with the same issues! Frost knows what he's talking about when it comes to these. I will not install another STS kit until they improve on the problems they have. Believe me, I've talked to Rick Squire a few times about the kit but it is a "entry level" kit into F/I. You want 400rwhp and the headaches to fix all the little issues then buy the STS kit. But when it's all said and done you'll end up spending the same, if not more than one of the other proven kits out there. And no, the solution isn't putting 2.5" piping and wrap to get the thing to respond as a front mount. You're dealing with air volume and distance. I love how STS claims that the piping acts like an intercooler. WRONG! I checked the inlet air temps and was dissapointed in what I found. The air was sitting at 147 degees under boost....so much for intercooling. Mine is up front and I have a methanol kit and I enjoy temps in the 90's. Sorry, you get what you pay for!

    These kits are designed for nothing more than a half-rate kit to get beginners into the F/I world. I'm just saying that there are better kits and better fab shops out there!

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    I know what I'm talking about as well. And yes the kits are worth it. taking the exhaust piping(cat back) from 3" to 2.5 inch works. Turbos work off of heat( 2.5= less surface area to cool hot air down) and velocity(air will travel through 2.5" pipe faster than 3". This is basic stuff man. Come on. If it doesn't make sense to you, don't post here. And EVERYONE knows a turbo car SHOULD be intercooled. It's really irritating hearing all the guys posting about the base kit w/o intercooler. Turbo cars need one. I don't need meth for mine. If it's 60 degrees outside, my AIT's are maybe 65... With me beating on it for miles straight.

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    And I was curious how the money comes out the same. I have investes alittle over 5K into my kit. APS twin kit starts at 6K... and doesn't even touch any fuel systems/tuning/valve springs exc. It's just the hard parts! Turbos, wastegates, ic and piping. Now I know that I can get a cam, nitrous, heads, suspension parts exc for that 2-3K price difference and have a car in the end that is faster than the front mount kit. Am I wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    I know what I'm talking about as well. And yes the kits are worth it. taking the exhaust piping(cat back) from 3" to 2.5 inch works. Turbos work off of heat( 2.5= less surface area to cool hot air down) and velocity(air will travel through 2.5" pipe faster than 3". This is basic stuff man. Come on. If it doesn't make sense to you, don't post here. And EVERYONE knows a turbo car SHOULD be intercooled. It's really irritating hearing all the guys posting about the base kit w/o intercooler. Turbo cars need one. I don't need meth for mine. If it's 60 degrees outside, my AIT's are maybe 65... With me beating on it for miles straight.

    Well then I guess you're going to explain the effects of backpressure when you go from 3" to 2.5" right? Because when it comes to that I think you need to realize that you're just stopping up the exhaust and while yes you create a "funnel" of pressure but you're just creating a restriction in the exhaust flow. Then I guess you're going to explain what happens to that nice turbo if your cat ever lets go....that's right, the crap goes right back to the turbo and sucks up a few hundred dollar repair bill to rebuild it...that is if it can be rebuilt....

    And while it can be 60 degrees outside you'll never see IAT's at 65 with the best intercooling out there! It's just not going to happen. Yes, the charge air is going to be 60 degrees but you have to factor in the exhaust temps, under hood temps....a lot of factors. Put your car on a Tech-2 and read the temps....I think you'll be surprised....and far as the basic stuff and not posting if I dont know that......when you're ready to talk F/I let me know....I'll be more than glad to compare notes with you...

    No need in turing this into a pissing contest. If you love your STS kit, great...have at it....but the fact is they have problems.....problems STS has failed to listen to us about. It's just a economy minded path to F/I but they fail to tell you about the issues..

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    And I was curious how the money comes out the same. I have investes alittle over 5K into my kit. APS twin kit starts at 6K... and doesn't even touch any fuel systems/tuning/valve springs exc. It's just the hard parts! Turbos, wastegates, ic and piping. Now I know that I can get a cam, nitrous, heads, suspension parts exc for that 2-3K price difference and have a car in the end that is faster than the front mount kit. Am I wrong?
    For $5K I could fab one up, buy a better fuel system and it would be no contest of the results.....it costs me $1100 for a 76mm Precision Turbo, (You get a 60mm from STS) Piping runs about $500, Fuel injectors/Pump/lines about $1K, Blow Off Valve, Wastegate, odds and ends and I still come in under $5K.....

    That's why I say to find a person that knows how to fab and understands turbos and you'd be surprised.....

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    exhaust issue: Okay so 2.5 in exh. is a restricton? Not really with wrapped pipe, hot air flows through it faster (less dense). There are examples of 2.5in exhausts pushing 6-800hp out there. So im guessing that at 5-600whp it's really not as restrictive as people think. Fluid dynamics people, how much air can 2.5" pipe flow at max?

    ic issue: My intake temps are not really more than 10 degrees over ambient. trust me I run the car every day with a logger and ait's knock/fuel trims are all closely monitored. They DO creep up if it's 100 degrees outside and the car is sitting at a stoplight. If yours aren't clost to ambient temps under light throttle, you may want to clean your intercooler out. (and front mount turbos DO run hotter than rear mounts/ front mounts can glow red if you are on it enough...never seen a rear do that even strapped to a dyno not moving)

    The cat issue: My car doesn't have them... Does yours? lol Cats are not an issue breaking and runing your turbo if you don't have them.

    The fab. issue: Yeah, I know a guy who biulds 9 sec camaros all day long! Joey at excessive auto sports. I told him about my kit I got and he said he could've done one for me at the same price, but you know what? I really don't want to be without my car for 2 months while he sources and welds stuff together. His work is magazine quality but no thanks. I'd rather know everything that was done in the process myself so I can un-do it if need be.
    Last edited by matt89; 01-19-2009 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    exhaust issue: Okay so 2.5 in exh. is a restricton? Not really with wrapped pipe, hot air flows through it faster (less dense). There are examples of 2.5in exhausts pushing 6-800hp out there. So im guessing that at 5-600whp it's really not as restrictive as people think. Fluid dynamics people, how much air can 2.5" pipe flow at max?

    ic issue: My intake temps are not really more than 10 degrees over ambient. trust me I run the car every day with a logger and ait's knock/fuel trims are all closely monitored. They DO creep up if it's 100 degrees outside and the car is sitting at a stoplight. If yours aren't clost to ambient temps under light throttle, you may want to clean your intercooler out. (and front mount turbos DO run hotter than rear mounts/ front mounts can glow red if you are on it enough...never seen a rear do that even strapped to a dyno not moving)

    The cat issue: My car doesn't have them... Does yours? lol Cats are not an issue breaking and runing your turbo if you don't have them.

    The fab. issue: Yeah, I know a guy who biulds 9 sec camaros all day long! Joey at excessive auto sports. I told him about my kit I got and he said he could've done one for me at the same price, but you know what? I really don't want to be without my car for 2 months while he sources and welds stuff together. His work is magazine quality but no thanks. I'd rather know everything that was done in the process myself so I can un-do it if need be.
    no one is argueing the fact that they work...we all know they work. but its the issues that are associated with this kit on F-bodys that we hate to deal with. they just arent worth the extra work and money it takes to make it work good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTramair View Post
    no one is argueing the fact that they work...we all know they work. but its the issues that are associated with this kit on F-bodys that we hate to deal with. they just arent worth the extra work and money it takes to make it work good.
    That's just it though! There really is no part of modding the kit that has cost me any real money worth mention. People around here are sating that "by the time you get this and that done you have already bought a better badder front kit" and that is simply a fasle statement. 5100$ and the sts kit provides you with all of the tools ALL of them to take your bottom end as far as it will go(600ish whp). No other kit on the market will do that for the same money. Maybe no one here buys kits. Are all of you running totally custom ground up set-ups or what?

  13. #33
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    .....
    Don't talk down to me; I have worked on and tuned over a dozen of these setups on F-bodies. The vette kits seem very nice when compared to the F-body systems. Other than chasing leaks, their issue list is much shorter.

    Another reason I'm not crazy about them is because out of every setup brought in for tuning; they ALWAYS REQUIRE RE-WORK AND ADDITIONAL MODIFICATION and take more work to get them in a tune-able state than any other setup by an order of 5 times or more.

    The base $4,000 kit that everyone runs do not include a blowoff/bypass valve or a waste gate or an intercooler and piping system or couplers that don't swell and tear apart or a working PCV system or t-bolts (crappy worm screw clamps) or proper charge pipe edge-beveling .... and the 4K kits definitely don't come with tuning or valvesprings either... Their meth kit moves the lowest volume of any system that I have ever seen; volume is NOT adjustable except to ground out the injector lead yet their meth kit costs more than any other on the market. It costs more, somehow, than the upper echelon kits and performs more poorly than the budget kits by other makers at half the cost.

    Once you add in the basics to that $4,000 kit like the intercooler (and it's extra related pipes, clamps, and couplers), blow off and bypass valve that should have been included (and are necessary) then you are nearly at the cost of the APS front mount twin intercooled kit that you mention. ATI's D1sc setup is very complete in this range as well.

    As for spool; your comparison pales a bit when you have a look at the housings that they ship. They run relatively tight A/R's that bring the turbo up quicker but because of back pressure they fall off very early up top. This is the illusion of efficiency. Even with this 'advantage', the six-speed cars, even when retaining manifolds and wrapping all of the piping still cannot make but a couple psi in first gear. They do not reach full boost until third (that's right) gears on most M6 setups unless they running something tiny like 5psi. They work ok on the automatics, and obviously work much better with the proper stall. The auto loads up the turbo better and doesn't lose the turbo's momentum at gear change like blowing off for a 6-speed car.

    The only rear mount F-body track-stars are some of the veterans on tech like Zombie and the new LMR build for Longrange4u. They are rear mount, but there is nothing STS there. So Matt, care to share ET/MPH and HP for your setup?

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    lol no thanks! None of the MANY cars that I have built and drove have been to a track. My last car on the dyno was a 400 and some odd whp eclipse tuned on E-85 that was shelled out and passing sportbikes on a regular around 34psi. My experience is not my post count, my friend. But lets consider street racing, illegal as it may be, but good for car to car comparisons. A list of wins, (many races each). a Friends 99 GTS hennesy viper(550), porsche 911 turbo, 06 yamaha r6, 08 kawasaki 636, 08 BMW M5, tons of 03 modded (pullied) mustang cobras and a few big block tubbed out vettes built at a local tuning shop(john haileys...an X top alcohol drag racer). Anyways when racing that many cars and thinking that SOME of them know how to drive their cars, mine is fast enough.

    I can EASILY hit 10 psi in 2nd gear.... and shouldn't have to tell you how to but I'm a nice guy. Stutter box in 1st, no lift-shift and guess what...your bov never opens and your boost picks up RIGHT where you left off.... Not that street tires will hold that power anyways(breaks loose around 5-6psi but is the road is just right it will). I'm still on stock rear end and want to be nice to this one.

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    The reason behind not taking it to the dyno(not that I wouldn't like to see what she is putting down)Is because of my last car I finished. I finished tuning the car on the street with a logger and a wideband and I thought by getting a professional tune that it would be night and day. WRONG. The guy changed my AFR by about one tenth of a point and added a degree of timing and upon doing so let me know that I did a great job myself with what I had and told me that you can get a car 95 percent of the way there with a wide band and logger. So unless I have to know what I'm putting down, I really don't feel like wasting 150 bucks to have someone tell me what I already know.

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    Wonder why we dont see any competative cars at the track running an STS kit? Because anyone that knows F/I knows the turbo goes up front....

    Believe me, I actually fabbed up a rear mount kit....it was a dyno queen but just didn't do it for me.....

    I've installed a couple of STS kits and they suck. There was no "install issues" or crap like that....I guess if all you want is 400 hp then have at it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cailey37 View Post
    Wonder why we dont see any competative cars at the track running an STS kit? Because anyone that knows F/I knows the turbo goes up front....

    Believe me, I actually fabbed up a rear mount kit....it was a dyno queen but just didn't do it for me.....

    I've installed a couple of STS kits and they suck. There was no "install issues" or crap like that....I guess if all you want is 400 hp then have at it....
    You built a 400hp dyno queen? really? If thats all you think you can get I'm sorry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    You built a 400hp dyno queen? really? If thats all you think you can get I'm sorry.
    No, I actually got a lot more out of it. Look, if you like the STS kit good. But the fact remains they are just an entry level kit with problems. I'm not going to keep debating this one. The guy wanted to know about the kit and I think that more people have responded with the issues they have than saying they are great. In the end, I dont care what one spends their money on. But if you want an opinion on the kit you have it. When it comes to tuning, Frost is probably one of the best around so I wouldn't go head to head on him with this.....

    Now, we can get this thread back on track or I can close it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt89 View Post
    lol no thanks! None of the MANY cars that I have built and drove have been to a track. My last car on the dyno was a 400 and some odd whp eclipse tuned on E-85 that was shelled out and passing sportbikes on a regular around 34psi. My experience is not my post count, my friend. But lets consider street racing, illegal as it may be, but good for car to car comparisons. A list of wins, (many races each). a Friends 99 GTS hennesy viper(550), porsche 911 turbo, 06 yamaha r6, 08 kawasaki 636, 08 BMW M5, tons of 03 modded (pullied) mustang cobras and a few big block tubbed out vettes built at a local tuning shop(john haileys...an X top alcohol drag racer). Anyways when racing that many cars and thinking that SOME of them know how to drive their cars, mine is fast enough.

    I can EASILY hit 10 psi in 2nd gear.... and shouldn't have to tell you how to but I'm a nice guy. Stutter box in 1st, no lift-shift and guess what...your bov never opens and your boost picks up RIGHT where you left off.... Not that street tires will hold that power anyways(breaks loose around 5-6psi but is the road is just right it will). I'm still on stock rear end and want to be nice to this one.
    spewing out a list of cars and claiming to have beaten said cars is nothing more than a sign of immaturity. we're having a disscussion about the STS system and its Flaws. we could care less if ya beat John Force himself on Hollywood bvld. but at any rate, id entertain your notion a bit if you could back it up with some time slips and/or track times for this "beast" of a STS car you have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TNTramair View Post
    spewing out a list of cars and claiming to have beaten said cars is nothing more than a sign of immaturity. we're having a disscussion about the STS system and its Flaws. we could care less if ya beat John Force himself on Hollywood bvld. but at any rate, id entertain your notion a bit if you could back it up with some time slips and/or track times for this "beast" of a STS car you have.
    My street racing and cars that are beaten are no more immature than someone posting a dyno graph. So a 600hp car on a dyno is respectable but telling you what it has beaten on the street is not? Come on guys. Lets get serious. Enough of the little girly talk and the "this guy with a rear turbo is beating up my ego" talk

    The people who have responded to the initial thread came forward very NEGATIVE about the rear mount set up and I think it's funny that they ALL have front mount kits. I'm telling him my GREAT experience about it. Beings I own one on my daily driver I have alittle more room to talk. Leave it at that.

    For frost, I've polked around on your car pages and all you have for your car is "estimated hp"? What's that all about? If you were as good at tuning as you were at calling out others faults, you would have real world#'s posted and I would love to challange your tuning prowess any day of the week. I've been around turbo's, shops, assembled all sorts of engines and tuned them to boot Import and domestic. It's really not that hard once you have been around the block and know what you are doing. What shop do you own may I ask if you are as reputable as people seem to think you are?

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