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procharger vs ststurbo

This is a discussion on procharger vs ststurbo within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I talked to procharger today and they said there is no parasitic loss with their d-1sc system. They said its ...

  1. #21
    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    I talked to procharger today and they said there is no parasitic loss with their d-1sc system. They said its a more up to date supercharger with improvements.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    I talked to procharger today and they said there is no parasitic loss with their d-1sc system. They said its a more up to date supercharger with improvements.
    I can't believe that. That has to be some loss.

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    I agree anytime your engine is turning an accessory there is some loss. TURBO BABY TURBO!!

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    Senior Member JD_Z28's Avatar
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    Go turbo. I have the STS kit with the 60-1 and I can kick a KB Cobras @ss. You should check out the dyno graph diffrence with a SC vs. Turbo. The STS kit works great, theres guys putting down over 800whp with the STS kit. Theres even an STS car in the 7's now.

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    Procharger for the kill.

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    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD_Z28 View Post
    Go turbo. I have the STS kit with the 60-1 and I can kick a KB Cobras @ss. You should check out the dyno graph diffrence with a SC vs. Turbo. The STS kit works great, theres guys putting down over 800whp with the STS kit. Theres even an STS car in the 7's now.
    What's a "kb" cobra?

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    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert View Post
    I can't believe that. That has to be some loss.
    I wonder. I know that with turbo and s/c you have to lower the compression, right? well if you add pulleys to your engine wouldn't that help?

    And you guys with the turbos on here, do you experience not much gain until 3rd like everybody I know?

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    Senior Member JD_Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    What's a "kb" cobra?
    That stand for Kenne Bell. Do a search on KB Cobras. For the best power turbo FTW...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD_Z28 View Post
    Go turbo. I have the STS kit with the 60-1 and I can kick a KB Cobras @ss. You should check out the dyno graph diffrence with a SC vs. Turbo. The STS kit works great, theres guys putting down over 800whp with the STS kit. Theres even an STS car in the 7's now.
    Remember, it's completely pointless to exceed 500 rwhp on a stock bottom end with either system, it just won't stand up to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    I wonder. I know that with turbo and s/c you have to lower the compression, right? well if you add pulleys to your engine wouldn't that help?

    And you guys with the turbos on here, do you experience not much gain until 3rd like everybody I know?
    The thing with a turbo that you have to remember is that it keeps right on breathing.......it wont go "flat" so to speak. I know a lot of guys that use maybe a 50 shot of nitrous to get out of the hole but after that you're hanging on for dear life.......I know some people will claim "lag" with a turbo but with the way they have them engineered these days it's minimal....plus if you match the turbo up to the engine you wont even notice it....

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    Quote Originally Posted by cailey37 View Post
    The thing with a turbo that you have to remember is that it keeps right on breathing.......it wont go "flat" so to speak. I know a lot of guys that use maybe a 50 shot of nitrous to get out of the hole but after that you're hanging on for dear life.......I know some people will claim "lag" with a turbo but with the way they have them engineered these days it's minimal....plus if you match the turbo up to the engine you wont even notice it....
    To run anything higher that 6-8 psi on the stock setup is asking for trouble...imo. You can run the compression, you just have to make sure that you have the fuel to keep it from detonating. I see alot of people having problems with the turbo not reaching full potential till higher gears and my only thought is that the exhaust side is not properly matched to the rest of the system. If the exhaust wheel is to big it will take for ever to spool, were as if you have a smaller wheel...it will boost almost instantly, but you will be restricted in the upper R's. There is a happy medium that you can come to but it takes a little research, and a little fore thought as to what kind of gain you are expecting, vs realistic gains. My suggestion is to do a little research, and make some phone calls to some turbo manufactures. Tell them your plans, and they can suggest the right combo for your application.

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    I've been debating this for a while also and I've made up my mind, if/when i go FI I'm going turbo. As argued many times if properly matched the lag will be minimal. Another way of looking at it though is that any centrifugal supercharger will have lag also. They lag all the way till redline. Yea they're making boost throughout the RPMs but they make peak boost at redline. A turbo however will make peak boost at say 3500 rpms and hold peak boost till redline. This gives a turbo more area under the curve compared to a centri supercharger for any given boost level. When you add in the parasitic loss of superchargers the turbo will be making that much more power.

    As for the argument that the supercharged car felt faster than the turbo one (assuming they had similar supporting mods and were running similar boost levels) that should be expected. Once a turbo gets into boost it'll hold the same boost level. This means that what you're feeling is a sudden jolt and then constancy at max hp/torque. Therefore once youre into boost you're not feeling much change in the amount of power. A centrifugal supercharger will be starting out at lower hp/torque levels and maxes out at redline. The constant rising of power is what makes it feel faster. You can physically feel it making more and more power till redline. That doesnt necessarily mean its faster though.

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    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    So which is faster? and would you say that one is better for drag racing and one is better for road racing? I'd naturally assume that the supercharger is better for drag racing and building straight power up for a short distance and the turbo well once it gets spooled up will keep boost as long as you stay in a certain rpm range like you probably would during auto cross, right?

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    Senior Member JD_Z28's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    So which is faster? and would you say that one is better for drag racing and one is better for road racing? I'd naturally assume that the supercharger is better for drag racing and building straight power up for a short distance and the turbo well once it gets spooled up will keep boost as long as you stay in a certain rpm range like you probably would during auto cross, right?
    I drag mine and I don't really have much lag. If you launch at a high enough rpm and feather off the clutch you build boost of the line, after your shift your rpms should hold high enough to were your still under boost. I would think turbo is better for drag epecially if you have a 2 step because you could launch on higher boost levels without feathering your clutch. Like someone said earlier, once you make full boost it holds all the way untill redline.

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    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    I'm stuck in the middle right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    I'm stuck in the middle right now.
    Go ProCharger.......




    P.S. - I've heard sub-frame connectors are a b*tch with an STS (unless they have that problem solved now)

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    Either way is a good way to make hp. Its all in what you prefer..and each set up has its problems. With S/Cs you have to worry about belt slippage or pulley slippage...and turbos have heat issues and it takes more space to plumb the hot parts. 6 in one hand...half a dozen in the other.

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    SS#430 1 of 74 7camaro7's Avatar
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    so do you guys suggest I shut up and just pick one, is it that kind of situation? hahaha

    also, should you do all the engine work you want first and then do the power adder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JD_Z28 View Post
    Go turbo. I have the STS kit with the 60-1 and I can kick a KB Cobras @ss. You should check out the dyno graph diffrence with a SC vs. Turbo. The STS kit works great, theres guys putting down over 800whp with the STS kit. Theres even an STS car in the 7's now.
    Saw your post on svt about the kill. Ha ha! Good kill btw.

    Anyways being a former procharged (p1sc), I switched to turbo for the convenience and to me it was more of a wow factor. Dialing up the boost to a higher setting can be done with the turn of a knob on a turbo system via a boost coontroller. The sound of the spool and the blow-off valve is what got me hooked. Full boost at 3000rpms and gobs of low end torque is the major difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7camaro7 View Post
    so do you guys suggest I shut up and just pick one, is it that kind of situation? hahaha

    also, should you do all the engine work you want first and then do the power adder?


    It depends on how much power you want. If you are going to forge your engine which I recommend, you should do that first. All you need is forged pistons and rods. Don't worry about the crank as it can hold past 900hp.

    After you figure that out you can put on a D1 or a turbo kit. Turbos you can get a boost controller and have it set to a low and high boost setting which you can change with the push of a button. But both can yeild good hp gains.

    If it were me, I would forge the engine and get the sts kit with some tips made up and run a 15psi setting and a 8psi setting for street driving. But remember when you get into big horsepower you will need more things such as a clutch, drag radials, bigger fuel system, rear end if you are drag racing etc.. And things break a lot faster with more horsepower!

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