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Methanol, what do you think?

This is a discussion on Methanol, what do you think? within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hi: I own a 1998 Z28 Supercharged with the Vortech 9psi with the intercooler. I bought a kit to inject ...

  1. #1
    Junior Member Isma98Z28SC's Avatar
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    1998 Z28

    Methanol, what do you think?

    Hi:

    I own a 1998 Z28 Supercharged with the Vortech 9psi with the intercooler. I bought a kit to inject a mixture of water/methanol to the intake. The manufacturer says the mix cool the combustion and the methanol gives a best combustion. Have you ever tried this? How was it? Dou you think it works?

    Also have a kit with NOS to put it direct to the radiator that cool my intercooler. What do you think about this mod?

    I live in Mexico City at 8,000f over the level sea.

    Regards,

    Ismael

  2. #2
    constant modder councelor hissin'98's Avatar
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    Black '98 Z/28 M6
    H/C/Turbo....why?

    Yes, methanol injection works but it doesn't really add power like it sounds or you hear. I am running it and have it injecting at two different boost levels (dual stage). It cools down the intake charge enough to prevent detonation, alowing to run more boost if needed. I am using alcohol injection currently but haven't noticed any difference between that and alcohol. Either way, water is the BEST way to prevent detonation and cool the incoming air while the methanol or alcohol adds a slight amount of added fuel that will burn. I know it does work. In the past I was able to run 6 lbs without det and up to 10lbs without det. with the injection. Your NOS sprayer will do the same thing as injecting water, methanol, or alcohol into the intake. It lowers the intake air temp enough to decrease the chance of detonation.

    If you're at 8,000 ft. above sea level then you don't have to worry about detonation as much as lower elevations simply because there is less air up that high and the same fuel going in so technically this make a slightly richer mix, and will prevent detonation as well.
    Hopes this helps you, and about your cam choice post, I think you should talk to a manufacturer like comp cams and see what they say. There are so many variables about how you want to use your car and what cam will suit you. Do some research, ask yourself if it is going to be a daily driver, how much rpm you want/need, exhaust/intake systems and how well they flow, upgraded valvetrain needs, transmission upgrades, etc. Make sure you have this information prior to talking to a tech guy.
    Black 98 Z28 M6
    HTC STS Turbo::ETP 225 11* Heads::Comp Cam::Moser 9::UMI stuff

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    Junior Member Isma98Z28SC's Avatar
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    Hissin´98

    Thanks for yout information, this is a very valuable for me. Dou you think it is useful to install both systems? I mean de NOS and the Water/methanol Injection. How many psi are you running on?

    Thanks again.

    Ismael

  4. #4
    Beast
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    Everything hissin'98 says about meth injection is true... it allows you to run a little bit more boost without detonation for short bursts. Any extra protection you can add can't hurt right?? Go for it.

    As for the NOS system... I've seen the "spray on the intercooler" type setups before, and they work very well at lowering intake temps... HOWEVER, why do it??? If you're paying the money for a nitrous setup, go ahead and do a traditional installation. You will be able to cool the air just as much while using LESS nitrous if you install it like a normal nitrous setup (injecting into the airstream... not onto the intercooler). Also, since you're at high altitude, this will add extra o2 to the intake to make up for it. The result?? A 50 shot will probably gain you 100+HP, and you're using less nitrous to boot!!

    Mark

  5. #5
    constant modder councelor hissin'98's Avatar
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    Black '98 Z/28 M6
    H/C/Turbo....why?

    Yes, I would do both if you already have the system. I will tell you that the methanol is going to be a lot cheaper than the nitrous cooler. Methanol or alcohol is cheap, straight from walmart. Water is free. Nitrous is not and like Beast said in the previous post, you might be better off if you shoot a little into the intake but then you have to invest into different jets and accesories. Maybe just a small 50hp shot but no more because I'm sure your engine wouldn't hold. Either way, you will get more cost/benefit from the methanol injection over the nitrous so IF I was you I would get the meth injection. And depending on your tank size, it will last about a tank or so of gas so no worries about running out, just keep it topped off.

    I was running 6lbs low and 10lbs hi boost but rarely did I go hi boost (just didn't need too)

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    Junior Member Isma98Z28SC's Avatar
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    Thanks to you both.

    Your recomendations seem very reasonable. I will install both because I already got them.

    Thanks beast,
    Thanks hissin´98

    Beast, That hood looks amazing!!

    Regards.

    Ismael

  7. #7
    Vtec95Civic
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    Wouldn't methanol BE an alcohol? I'm assuming the alcohol injection you're referring to is some other alcohol.

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    constant modder councelor hissin'98's Avatar
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    Black '98 Z/28 M6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtec95Civic
    Wouldn't methanol BE an alcohol? I'm assuming the alcohol injection you're referring to is some other alcohol.
    In some ways yes. It has about the same relations as butane does with propane and to methane. It has a different chemical composition which reacts slightly different. The two easiest ways to get methanal and/or alcohol is from simple windshield fluid and isopropyl or rubbing alcohol which comes in a 70/30 mix of alcohol to water. You can also mail order these special fuels and mix them yourself but is esentially the same. With these injection systems today, you can inject water, methanol or alcohol or a mix of each. Just comes down to how much detonation protection you need.

  9. #9
    Vtec95Civic
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    Well I just meant methanol is an alcohol because of the alcohol functional group on it, hence the -ol ending.

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    constant modder councelor hissin'98's Avatar
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    Black '98 Z/28 M6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vtec95Civic
    Well I just meant methanol is an alcohol because of the alcohol functional group on it, hence the -ol ending.
    Well then you answered your own question

  11. #11
    Member tici's Avatar
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    1998 M6 vert TA

    You can also use ethanol, if it's easier to find over there.
    For water you have to use distilled water. It's not an option.
    In my case I gained 30 RWHP, but I have the non intercooled Vortech kit. The IAT goes about 100F lower during spraying. This with 6 GPH 50% ethanol @ 100 PSI.
    Timing is 17* as set by Vortech with their handeld programmer, more timing didn't cause any power gain.
    You need to install the nozzle after the intercooler.

    To my opinion to install a NOS cooling to your radiator is a waste of money and time.
    The air charge cooler will see colder water only after few seconds. By then you won't be on the gas pedal any more.
    Direct water/alcohol injection has max 1 second delay and it's much more effective than cooling the cooler.
    Take a look at my setup, maybe it gives you some ideas...

    Stefano
    MODS: A4 > M6 conversion, SC raptor hood, Vortech V9 G-Trim SQ, homemade water-alcohol injection
    DYNO: 410 RWHP, 417 TORQUE @ 5 PSI

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    Junior Member Isma98Z28SC's Avatar
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    Tici:

    Is good to find someone who has the same setup as me. It gives me a more reliable idea about what it is going to happen.

    I will check your setup.

    Thanks.

    Ismael

  13. #13
    Member tici's Avatar
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    1998 M6 vert TA

    Well... one thing that is going to happen is that your tranny won't hold the power (if you have an A4).
    If you want to keep it alive you'll have to increase torque management or you'll toast it pretty soon (as it happened to mine).
    It's about modifying "upshift torque reduction". Stock is 30%, vortech set it at 2% what is pretty criminal because the engine will have full power during the shifts.
    When mine started to slip I set it at 50% and it was OK.

  14. #14
    Junior Member Isma98Z28SC's Avatar
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    Yes, I have an A4. Do you mean I have to eliminate or reduce the torque management? I own the HP tuners to do that but I am new on it so I have hust started to experience with that tool. My A4 has some mods like the B&M transhift and transcooler and I hope it helps.

    Thans for your comments.

    Ismael

  15. #15
    Member tici's Avatar
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    The transcooler will help. I always noticed a very quick temp. increase after WOT shiftings, this with the cooler... like from 170 to 220 F in few seconds!
    Transhift: you mean a shift kit? I don't know. It may help not to slip during shifts.
    Many people reduce or remove torque management because it will remove timing during shift. If you are drag racing you will loose 0.0xxx of a second. For a daily drive I would leave it or even increase the amount of timing it reduces.
    I have LS1Edit and there is a table "upshift torque reduction". It reduces timing in % depending on the calculated torque.
    The more you remove and more you will feel a power hole during shifting.
    It's not pleasant but it's what allows the clutches to close without slipping too much.
    If they slip too many times they will burn and adios la trasmision!
    Do you have the original Vortech program? I think their tranny program is really bad. It shifts harder from the lowest RPM, this only to give you a feeling of power...
    I put the tranny settings back to stock and increased upsift torque reduction to 50% (usually it's only 30%). It stopped to slip but it was too late, the tranny was already gone

    They also mess with the TCC settings: again, it's for a sporty feeling but the result is an overheated tranny and an increased fuel consumption (they let slip the TCC more than stock. Slip = friction = heat)

    Stefano

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    Hugger Orange
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    I'm running Meth spray

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    Quote Originally Posted by HUGGER ORANGE SS
    I'm running Meth spray
    When...........

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    As soon as I get the balls... lol

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    SUPREME member-oderator oneBADDz's Avatar
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    Are there a lot of cars like yours in mexico city? And don't y'all have some SERIOUS emmisions laws? Just wondering, I love learning this stuff

  20. #20
    Junior Member Isma98Z28SC's Avatar
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    Oh Yes, Laws give us serious headaches. We have to make a check twice a year and pay about 30 US every time.

    In Mexico the only SC nationwide is mine. There is another with the Turbo SS which is doing 12.54s in the ET which is a good time in our 8000 ft osl.

    Believe me, stop bumpers and smoke verification is a very "kick ass" for us, not taking into account the dogs that cross the highway.

    Regards.

    Ismael

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