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general questions about a procharger

This is a discussion on general questions about a procharger within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Packy You don't need to run a boost controller with an M6 supercharged application because they have ...

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    Senior Member FasstChevys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    You don't need to run a boost controller with an M6 supercharged application because they have a bypass valve built into the system. What that does is vent the boost into the atmosphere or intake track when you are not under load such as revving or between shifts. Now there have been some that have ran different variations of boost controllers but mainly the one I have seen was one guy on Tech ran his car with a smaller pulley to make more boost in the low to mid range and then he controlled the boost with some type of wastegate in order not to boost it too high in the upper rpm band. In doing this he achieved more power under the curve and continued make good power up top also. Boost controller are mainly for turbo applications so with a the turn of a dial or button you can run more boost for when you wanna go to the track and load a race gas tune in the car fill her up with some good gas to your liking and let it loose. I myself have never heard of a boost controller being used in a S/C application.
    beat me to it good post

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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post

    And to the 19yr old kid, you obviously have no clue what your talking about. No LS1 car has made 500whp on a stock block with just H/C/I. yeah Mr. Luos is pushing 530 horses on the stock block.
    Mr Luos is pushing well North of 500 to the wheels but he also has a 402 ci fully built motor. His set-up seems very reliable and daily driveable but it is larger cubic inch LSX totally different animal than what we are talking about here in the FI section. OP wants info about how to get a Procharged DD up and running very reliable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Mr Luos is pushing well North of 500 to the wheels but he also has a 402 ci fully built motor. His set-up seems very reliable and daily driveable but it is larger cubic inch LSX totally different animal than what we are talking about here in the FI section. OP wants info about how to get a Procharged DD up and running very reliable.
    I know. Hence the . I still remember all the threads and pictures he made when he was tearing it apart a few years back.
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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FasstChevys View Post
    beat me to it good post
    X3. Boost controllers are only for turbo's. I'm sure some 03/04 cobra owners would have had them bu now if they were available for a supercharged car.

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    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    I still wouldnt run 8lbs on a stock block, but thats just me I guess. It has been done, it is being done, and it will be done but I personally will forge the internals if I wanted to run boost on a DD. Doesnt really make sense to drop 6k on a s/c kit and try to save 2k on the motor.

    And to the 19yr old kid, you obviously have no clue what your talking about. No LS1 car has made 500whp on a stock block with just H/C/I. yeah Mr. Luos is pushing 530 horses on the stock block.

    Terminators were designed for boosted applications. Like Packy said, they come off the factory floor with a blower and forged internals. You cant really compare a 5.7L naturally aspirated engine to a superchared 4.6, its like apples to oranges.
    I never said anything about it being done on a ls1/stock cubes, go back and read, all I said was is that people have reached that kind of power N/A. I simply said there are other ways of achieving that much power w/o F/I.
    Also I brought up the terminator for that exact reason(it's forged from the factory). It is built for boost from the factory, thus it would be less expensive to achieve 500hp in a termy IF your going to go about doing it with boost, in that aspect they are comparable.

    Edit: I just saw your age, how is it that you can go off calling me a kid when you only 4yrs older that me? Does the fact that i'm 19 somehow impair my ability to comprehend information and make a rational argument?
    Last edited by LeadFarmer; 08-02-2010 at 03:27 PM.

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    here

    just one example of 500rwhp out of a 346 n/a ..not the norm and of course the dyno could read happy..but Patrick G has hit 509rwhp with a 346 also ..it is possible..but street-ability and such will always be questionable

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    here

    just one example of 500rwhp out of a 346 n/a ..not the norm and of course the dyno could read happy..but Patrick G has hit 509rwhp with a 346 also ..it is possible..but street-ability and such will always be questionable

    Yeah that car is a one in a 500,000 type set-up. Very good numbers but not the norm for a H/C/I LS1 engine. That just goes to show you what tuning will do for you. If you do your homework and either gain the knowledge to tune yourself or use a very reputable tuner you can net decent results. So many people buy cams and heads that are not paired for each other as well as they could be. Same goes with the Procharged LS1's. There have been several people that went with a simple LS6 cam from a 2002-04 ZO-6 and factory LS1 heads with some new springs and pushrods that made more power than some of the custom boost cams and big name heads. Cartek had a pair of 500 rwhp H/C/I cars but I saw how streetable some were... Not very! Usually anything north of 450rwhp for H/C/I is commendable and has netted lotsa vehicles some good times with gears and weight reduction. The beauty of a boosted car is you are always just a pulley/head unit swap and tune away from more power! Try and squeeze more out of an H/C/I car is a lot harder and usually involves N2O.

    Either way you go H/C/I, Forced Induction, N2O, or bigger cubes. You always have the same variables to deal with. Durability, driveability and the enjoyment factor. To each his own but there are just some options that are more suited for a daily vehicle.
    Last edited by Packy; 08-02-2010 at 06:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Yeah that car is a one in a 500,000 type set-up. Very good numbers but not the norm for a H/C/I LS1 engine. That just goes to show you what tuning will do for you. If you do your homework and either gain the knowledge to tune yourself or use a very reputable tuner you can net decent results. So many people buy cams and heads that are not paired for each other as well as they could be. Same goes with the Procharged LS1's. There have been several people that went with a simple LS6 cam from a 2002-04 ZO-6 and factory LS1 heads with some new springs and pushrods that made more power than some of the custom boost cams and big name heads. Cartek had a pair of 500 rwhp H/C/I cars but I saw how streetable some were... Not very! Usually anything north of 450rwhp for H/C/I is commendable and has netted lotsa vehicles some good times with gears and weight reduction. The beauty of a boosted car is you are always just a pulley/head unit swap and tune away from more power! Try and squeeze more out of an H/C/I car is a lot harder and usually involves N2O.

    Either way you go H/C/I, Forced Induction, N2O, or bigger cubes. You always have the same variables to deal with. Durability, driveability and the enjoyment factor. To each his own but there are just some options that are more suited for a daily vehicle.
    oh i agree completely ..but i would also say i bet 70-75% of people either over cam or mis-cam their set up throwing mismatched parts together

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFarmer View Post
    I never said anything about it being done on a ls1/stock cubes, go back and read, all I said was is that people have reached that kind of power N/A. I simply said there are other ways of achieving that much power w/o F/I.
    Also I brought up the terminator for that exact reason(it's forged from the factory). It is built for boost from the factory, thus it would be less expensive to achieve 500hp in a termy IF your going to go about doing it with boost, in that aspect they are comparable.

    Edit: I just saw your age, how is it that you can go off calling me a kid when you only 4yrs older that me? Does the fact that i'm 19 somehow impair my ability to comprehend information and make a rational argument?
    Well your certainly not an adult at 19, you can't buy booze along with a few other things. I'm not judging any one. Iv been coming onto this site since 2004 and joined in 2006 after I got my car. I see you just joined this year so u have a lot to learn. As far as cobras go, if I had the choice of getting either an ls1 or cobra for free I would go with the cobra. If I had to pay for a car and mod it I would go with the ls1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    Well your certainly not an adult at 19, you can't buy booze along with a few other things. I'm not judging any one. Iv been coming onto this site since 2004 and joined in 2006 after I got my car. I see you just joined this year so u have a lot to learn. As far as cobras go, if I had the choice of getting either an ls1 or cobra for free I would go with the cobra. If I had to pay for a car and mod it I would go with the ls1.
    +1 ....but doesn't that make us disloyal to the all mighty ls1? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFarmer View Post
    +1 ....but doesn't that make us disloyal to the all mighty ls1? lol
    Hell I am not biased I have one for my DD...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Hell I am not biased I have one for my DD...
    You dont count god damn it

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFarmer View Post
    ..
    Also I brought up the terminator for that exact reason(it's forged from the factory). It is built for boost from the factory, thus it would be less expensive to achieve 500hp in a termy IF your going to go about doing it with boost, in that aspect they are comparable.

    Edit: I just saw your age, how is it that you can go off calling me a kid when you only 4yrs older that me? Does the fact that i'm 19 somehow impair my ability to comprehend information and make a rational argument?

    It must have here... Terminators (03-04 Cobras) are worth about $15k with 50-70k miles on them. F-bodies are worth about $8-10k in the same mileage range. Since you are chasing the budget, you can't act like you are just forgetting the initial investment.

    One of my closest friends is selling his 99 Z28 with leather (immaculate interior) and 59K miles on the car and is currently asking $8200.

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    rice,its what's fo dinner LeadFarmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    It must have here... Terminators (03-04 Cobras) are worth about $15k with 50-70k miles on them. F-bodies are worth about $8-10k in the same mileage range. Since you are chasing the budget, you can't act like you are just forgetting the initial investment.

    One of my closest friends is selling his 99 Z28 with leather (immaculate interior) and 59K miles on the car and is currently asking $8200.
    yeh but the money you're going to spend on PROPERLY boosting the F-body is going to roughly equate to the value of the cobra. Either way you go your going to be about 15-20k in the hole. The cobra is just the slightly easier route as far as boost is concerned, am I right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFarmer View Post
    yeh but the money you're going to spend on PROPERLY boosting the F-body is going to roughly equate to the value of the cobra. Either way you go your going to be about 15-20k in the hole. The cobra is just the slightly easier route as far as boost is concerned, am I right?
    15-20k in just mods or does that include the value of the car? No way is it gonna cost that much to boost an LS1 safely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    15-20k in just mods or does that include the value of the car? No way is it gonna cost that much to boost an LS1 safely.
    value of car + cost of boost.

    BUT, 15-20k on just mods wouldn't be too far-fetched. F/I kit+ forged internals+ possibly cam/heads + tranny supporting mods + 12bolt/9in + exhaust + suspension + tires & tune. Also if your not gonna do the work yourself you also have to calculate install costs.
    So it's certainly possible to get to 15-20k in just mods. It isn't exactly a weekend project.

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    My LS1 P1-SC kit was $3500 with injectors, fuel pump and boost gauge. I installed it myself and was good for 500 rwhp with equal torque with the initial 5 psi set-up. My car cost me 21k in 2001.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFarmer View Post
    value of car + cost of boost.

    BUT, 15-20k on just mods wouldn't be too far-fetched. F/I kit+ forged internals+ possibly cam/heads + tranny supporting mods + 12bolt/9in + exhaust + suspension + tires & tune. Also if your not gonna do the work yourself you also have to calculate install costs.
    So it's certainly possible to get to 15-20k in just mods. It isn't exactly a weekend project.
    you think the terminator can handle 700-800rwhp stock..there is work to be done..granted not too much on the motor side..but the trans and their rear IRS needs to be worked over...not to mention to make those big numbers..most jump to a KB ..so there is money in that. neither car is that cheap to make those high numbers...shit no car is cheap that makes 500-800rwhp

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeadFarmer View Post
    value of car + cost of boost.

    BUT, 15-20k on just mods wouldn't be too far-fetched. F/I kit+ forged internals+ possibly cam/heads + tranny supporting mods + 12bolt/9in + exhaust + suspension + tires & tune. Also if your not gonna do the work yourself you also have to calculate install costs.
    So it's certainly possible to get to 15-20k in just mods. It isn't exactly a weekend project.
    I like the styling of both cars but for drag racing I prefer the TA. Rollracing and typical street jackassing around I prefer the Cobra. Both are nice cars but you are going to pay the same price either way. Leadfarmer if you missed it on tech a guy sold a Camaro (busted motor) complete with a Vortech kit and all the other bolt-ons for 6k. There are deals out there to be had! If you look on tech you can find SC'd and Turboed LSX F-bods for anywhere from 10k-20K that are turn key. most have built motors, trans, and rear-ends already too!

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    you think the terminator can handle 700-800rwhp stock..there is work to be done..granted not too much on the motor side..but the trans and their rear IRS needs to be worked over...not to mention to make those big numbers..most jump to a KB ..so there is money in that. neither car is that cheap to make those high numbers...shit no car is cheap that makes 500-800rwhp
    Werd, the IRS being the biggest problem in those cobras. Once you get past the pulley stage and start porting the blower, you will need bigger injectors, boost-a-pump, heat exchanger etc... to make use of that 500+hp safely. You will also need some suspension parts to plant that power to the pavement. People often think its cheaper to go FI with the cobra because they already come with all the goodies.

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