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general questions about a procharger

This is a discussion on general questions about a procharger within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Ok so it seems that heads and a cam arent the best option for me so im going to go ...

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    The red dragon bpopham22's Avatar
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    general questions about a procharger

    Ok so it seems that heads and a cam arent the best option for me so im going to go with a pro charger. Id like to get forged internals and run maybe 10 or 12 lbs of boost, but im curious if that takes away from the reliability of the car. Also can u drive them in the rain? Not because of traction issues but because of sucking up water. I want around 5-600 RWHP outta the car and im gonna have a moser 12 bolt and im thinking about the level 2 performabuilt tranny. Im new to the whole forced induction thing and would like some info pleez. I live in south central tx so im not too worried about the rain. Also how bad does the gas mileage get with calm driving in town. And how good does it get on the highway. I have about 4 grand worth of suspension parts in my spare room at my house and i think im gonna have most of the supporting mods i need. O also whats the best fuel system kit to get for one of these.

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpopham22 View Post
    Ok so it seems that heads and a cam arent the best option for me so im going to go with a pro charger. Id like to get forged internals and run maybe 10 or 12 lbs of boost, but im curious if that takes away from the reliability of the car. Also can u drive them in the rain? Not because of traction issues but because of sucking up water. I want around 5-600 RWHP outta the car and im gonna have a moser 12 bolt and im thinking about the level 2 performabuilt tranny. Im new to the whole forced induction thing and would like some info pleez. I live in south central tx so im not too worried about the rain. Also how bad does the gas mileage get with calm driving in town. And how good does it get on the highway. I have about 4 grand worth of suspension parts in my spare room at my house and i think im gonna have most of the supporting mods i need. O also whats the best fuel system kit to get for one of these.
    From what I heard, they seem to be quite calm untill you nail the throttle and get into the boost. I wouldnt s/c or cam a car if you worried about gas milage. I see your worried about wet weather driving. Is this your dd? If so I would research A LOT and choose carefully. You will def need new injectors and pumps along with some other things like plugs etc... Just curious, why didnt you go with h/c? You will need a forged bottom end for boost.

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    The red dragon bpopham22's Avatar
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    cuz with heads and cam i would have to get a diff. stall and im not too concerned with gas mileage, but i dont wanna be driving around with 5 mpg either if i suffer 5-8 less mpg than what i get now thats no big deal. Ive read u get decent mileage on the highway because ur engine barely has to do any work. I know ill need new injectors and a larger fuel pump and spark plugs are no big deal. I want to know EVERYTHING that is needed to have one of these installed and to be reliable. As far as the forged stuff i know ill need forged pistons,connecting rods,crankshaft, and thats all i really know so far. Thats what i want though........calm untill i get into the boost and then my car turns into the hulk!

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    New stall is nothing when comparing it to a procharger. H/C/stall can be bought for about half of what a procharger runs. As far as realiability goes, nothing is going to be safe once you mod an engine to this extent. It will be safe to run if you do all the required steps and procedures, but eventually something will break. Either way, looks like you made up your mind. Talk to Ed (edblownvert).
    "Life is to short to drive a slow car"

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    Your driving mileage whether nice and easy through town or on the highway will not be affected very much. My car was getting 26mpg when it had the six speed in it with the Procharger. It really depends on you. If you floor it everyonce in a while then you will see where your gas mileage goes after doing that multiple times. As far as mods if you start with a good forged short block you can't go wrong. Have it built with lower compression ratio around 9.5:1 or so. You can use a stock crank for a forged build. They have taken the stock cranks well past 600hp these days and lived for along time. Get a good blower cam spec'd out for your motor. The stock LS6 cam works good but mainly stay small with the cam for your driveability factor. Just go with a good split duration cam like a 220/228 or something along those lines. Brutespeed has a new FI camshaft that is specifically for Procharged cars. Also don't skimp on the fuel system. Get a good double pump set-up with some fuel rails, rail mounted regulator, and 60 lb injectors. When you buy the kit get the D-1SC with an 8-rib drive belt system or look into the SDCE for belt tensioning. It seems around 10-12 psi is where everyone starts fighting the belt slip problems really bad. Also headers if you don't already have them. Get some 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 style so you be pretty free breathing. Just continue to ask questions and what not. Hope everything goes well for your build.
    Last edited by Packy; 07-27-2010 at 11:31 AM.
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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    Your driving mileage whether nice and easy through town or on the highway will not be affected very much. My car was getting 26mpg when it had the six speed in it with the Procharger. It really depends on you. If you floor it everyonce in a while then you will see where your gas mileage goes after doing that multiple times. As far as mods if you start with a good forged short block you can't go wrong. Have it built with lower compression ratio around 9.5:1 or so. You can use a stock crank for a forged build. They have taken the stock cranks well past 600hp these days and lived for along time. Get a good blower cam spec'd out for your motor. The stock LS6 cam works good but mainly stay small with the cam for your driveability factor. Just go with a good split duration cam like a 220/228 or something along those lines. Brutespeed has a new FI camshaft that is specifically for Procharged cars. Also don't skimp on the fuel system. Get a good double pump set-up with some fuel rails, rail mounted regulator, and 60 lb injectors. When you buy the kit get the D-1SC with an 8-rib drive belt system or look into the SDCE for belt tensioning. It seems around 10-12 psi is where everyone start fighting the belt slip problems really bad. Also headers if you son't already have them. Get some 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 style so you be pretty free breathing. Just continue to ask questions and what not. Hope everything goes well for your build.
    Well said. There are cams made JUST FOR forced induction applications. And make sure you have full bolt ons to make use of that procharger. Stock crank is good, but if you really wanna up the boost you might as well get a forged one while you have the motor outta the car.

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    I've done a ton of research on the Procharger myself as I've been interested in it for quite some time.

    Few things I've noted. People are putting them on stock bottom end LS1's and running 8lbs and netting close to 500rwhp without any issues over a long period of time. There is an extensive thread about this over on Tech.

    Secondly, for higher boost applications (more than 8lbs), like Packy mentioned, you will want to forge the motor. At minimal, pistons and connecting rods. Stroke it to lower the compression. You don't want 10:1 compression and running high levels of boost. I've read that the stock crank on our cars can handle upwards of 1,000 HP. The bottom line is though, it isn't forged and FI applications are very stressful on internal engine components. I don't think a cam is a necessity with FI, however, it will allow you to get more out of the set-up.

    Again as mentioned, most of the Procharger upgrades recommend 60-lb injectors so you aren't going past the duty cycle limitations and something like a Walbro 255 in-tank fuel pump to ensure there will always be enough fuel delivery.

    You'll also want gauges to monitor things. At least a A/F and fuel pressure gauge.

    I haven't ever came across anything about driving the cars in rain and it being a problem so I am not too sure on that. I do know a few people that have the D-1SC though and they are extremely happy.

    Most importantly, get a great tune. Tuning is everything with FI so make sure you go to a reputable shop if you plan on taking it somewhere and not tuning it yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post

    You'll also want gauges to monitor things. At least a A/F and fuel pressure gauge.

    I haven't ever came across anything about driving the cars in rain and it being a problem so I am not too sure on that. I do know a few people that have the D-1SC though and they are extremely happy.

    Most importantly, get a great tune. Tuning is everything with FI so make sure you go to a reputable shop if you plan on taking it somewhere and not tuning it yourself.
    Good points that I missed. A good wideband is your friend! Innovate LM-2 or NGK will work also for a cheaper route with probably the most accurate reading if you upgrade the sensor.

    The water isn't that my of a scare unless you plan on driving through deep mud puddles with the front left side (drivers side wheel) because your air intake is relocated to there. I have only had one time in the entire 8 years I had my car and Procharger set-up. My culdasack was flooded and I had to park it on the side of the road just shy of my driveway because the water was so high it would have went over the intake and probably the bottom of my doors too. Bottom line is if you use common sense it won't happen to you but if you try to risk it and drive in heavy torrential downpours you run a risk. Pic of rainy day:

    Tuning is probably the single most largest key to any FI set-up. Get the car a good dyno tune as soon as its finished. Good meaning a very reputable car tuner that has knowledge or past experiences with FI set-ups similar to yours.

    Also since you live in a pretty warm place you might wanna check into a meth kit. They can help out your fueling needs and keep your IAT's down as well when it is summer time.
    Last edited by Packy; 07-27-2010 at 11:58 AM.

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    also worth noting is that it is recommended if you are pushing some high numbers that you need a blower stall...you need to pay to play...that is why a lot of people stress!!! that when getting a stall..you go bigger than what you think...3600-4k stall for N/a and/or go for a blower stall. just part of the game bud. so man up and either get a real stall for a n/a app. or go F/I and spend the dough

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    Blown, Stroked, & Sprayed

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    If you have the money. A Procharger is a great way to go. Drive normally till you get into boost. Don't always have to go WOT to feel the power. Part-throttle boost is great.
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    The red dragon bpopham22's Avatar
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    see i wanna hear from people who have them. As far as money goes ill buy whatever it takes to make sure its dependable. And one of our sponsors(nelson performance) is actually only 45 min away from me so i figured id have them do all the work for me. I dont plan on doing 0-140 runs if i get one, i just want the power there in case i have to pass someone up. The car might see the track 1 or 2 times a year at the very most, and right now its been over a year since ive been. Do i really need a forged block if i just want to run 8lbs of boost? I dont mind spending the money on internals but damn i whole new block? if thats the case id just build a Motor, Ive got 1 7/8 American Racing headers and y pipe waiting to go on and the 3" borla adjustable Exhaust. And i know ill need a better fuel system, i noticed that a vortech charger comes with them and the procharger doesnt,maybe thats why its 2 grand less. Another thing i want to know how is the acceleration at partial throttle when it gets into boost?

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpopham22 View Post
    see i wanna hear from people who have them. As far as money goes ill buy whatever it takes to make sure its dependable. And one of our sponsors(nelson performance) is actually only 45 min away from me so i figured id have them do all the work for me. I dont plan on doing 0-140 runs if i get one, i just want the power there in case i have to pass someone up. The car might see the track 1 or 2 times a year at the very most, and right now its been over a year since ive been. Do i really need a forged block if i just want to run 8lbs of boost? I dont mind spending the money on internals but damn i whole new block? if thats the case id just build a Motor, Ive got 1 7/8 American Racing headers and y pipe waiting to go on and the 3" borla adjustable Exhaust. And i know ill need a better fuel system, i noticed that a vortech charger comes with them and the procharger doesnt,maybe thats why its 2 grand less. Another thing i want to know how is the acceleration at partial throttle when it gets into boost?
    If you want to be safe and 100% satisfied, then yes I would forge it. Your saying you are going to run 8lbs boost as of now, but I guarantee you will be back here later asking questions about raising the boost. Personally I wouldnt run a s/c on these cars, not to mention how much its gonna cost you if you plan on having a shop install it and tune it.

    With the $ you have I would throw on a h/c and call it a day. A nice set of AFR heads matched with a solid cam can be a mean b***c. Not to mention with a h/c you dont have to spend to much on your fuel system. But it is your car...

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    Quote Originally Posted by rajiv1998 View Post
    If you want to be safe and 100% satisfied, then yes I would forge it. Your saying you are going to run 8lbs boost as of now, but I guarantee you will be back here later asking questions about raising the boost. Personally I wouldnt run a s/c on these cars, not to mention how much its gonna cost you if you plan on having a shop install it and tune it.

    With the $ you have I would throw on a h/c and call it a day. A nice set of AFR heads matched with a solid cam can be a mean b***c. Not to mention with a h/c you dont have to spend to much on your fuel system. But it is your car...
    FI > n/a in terms power potential and drive-ability (within reason). the fuel system would need to be upgraded anyways...the price difference between a fi fuel system compared to N/a is about none existent.

    if you are ready to lay down the money than by all means go F/I ...just mind you ..you are talking about forging it and not liking it. you could go forged and not worry about any amount of boost you throw at it. or you could leave it alone and run 8 psi ...you might be able to run it for awhile..or forever..depends...then you will need a whole new engine even possibly heads ...so in the long run..a shortblock is much cheaper than a whole new engine. cheap insurance

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    Blown, Stroked, & Sprayed

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    Quote Originally Posted by bpopham22 View Post
    see i wanna hear from people who have them. As far as money goes ill buy whatever it takes to make sure its dependable. And one of our sponsors(nelson performance) is actually only 45 min away from me so i figured id have them do all the work for me. I dont plan on doing 0-140 runs if i get one, i just want the power there in case i have to pass someone up. The car might see the track 1 or 2 times a year at the very most, and right now its been over a year since ive been. Do i really need a forged block if i just want to run 8lbs of boost? I dont mind spending the money on internals but damn i whole new block? if thats the case id just build a Motor, Ive got 1 7/8 American Racing headers and y pipe waiting to go on and the 3" borla adjustable Exhaust. And i know ill need a better fuel system, i noticed that a vortech charger comes with them and the procharger doesnt,maybe thats why its 2 grand less. Another thing i want to know how is the acceleration at partial throttle when it gets into boost?
    You don't have to get forged internals, but expect it to go eventually. Just plan accordingly.

    I did the H/C thing, even nitrous. But there nothing like pulling up to a light next to a Mustang and hearing the whine of the SC.

    Power on demand. Love it. Getting on an freeway offramp, part-throttle, 6# of boost. It brings a smile to my face every time.

    Just remember, its an expensive choice.

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    King 0f n00bz shady milkman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert View Post
    You don't have to get forged internals, but expect it to go eventually. Just plan accordingly.

    I did the H/C thing, even nitrous. But there nothing like pulling up to a light next to a Mustang and hearing the whine of the SC.

    Power on demand. Love it. Getting on an freeway offramp, part-throttle, 6# of boost. It brings a smile to my face every time.

    Just remember, its an expensive choice.
    im surprised you even remember what it is like to drive your car

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    Blown, Stroked, & Sprayed

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    im surprised you even remember what it is like to drive your car
    I didn't remember till I stepped on the throttle, I forgot how much fun the car was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Blown Vert View Post
    I didn't remember till stepped on the throttle, I forgot how much fun the car was.
    must feel good knowing you got that 9" there to play with

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    ;) Packy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bpopham22 View Post
    see i wanna hear from people who have them. As far as money goes ill buy whatever it takes to make sure its dependable. And one of our sponsors(nelson performance) is actually only 45 min away from me so i figured id have them do all the work for me. I dont plan on doing 0-140 runs if i get one, i just want the power there in case i have to pass someone up. The car might see the track 1 or 2 times a year at the very most, and right now its been over a year since ive been. Do i really need a forged block if i just want to run 8lbs of boost? I dont mind spending the money on internals but damn i whole new block? if thats the case id just build a Motor, Ive got 1 7/8 American Racing headers and y pipe waiting to go on and the 3" borla adjustable Exhaust. And i know ill need a better fuel system, i noticed that a vortech charger comes with them and the procharger doesnt,maybe thats why its 2 grand less. Another thing i want to know how is the acceleration at partial throttle when it gets into boost?
    You don't need a new block. The LS1 block will hold 800-900 hp and has held for more before with good tuning and good fuel. Exactly what someone mentioned already. At first 8 psi is good enough but IMHO that is the limit of the stock longblock. Some have ran more and still are but trust me they are only on blip of the throttle away from doing damage in the wrong conditions. You initially said you wanted to throw 10-12 psi at it. That is a different story than what you saying now. If you have the ability I would do forged pistons and rods, LS6 ('02-'04) or blower cam, dual fuel pumps with new rails/regulator/60 lb/hr inj. and a D-1SC tuner kit. Then you have to think about transmission and rearend next... That becomes your weak link when adding any amount of power even headers with a simple cam can cause the good ole 4L60shE to crap out. The ten bolts as long as they have had lower gears in them I have not really had a problem with them in my experience. I tried to blow mine up for a few months when I bought my 12 bolt but it held everything I threw at it. I dunno... You now are armed with plenty of things to think over.

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    Blown, Stroked, & Sprayed

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    Quote Originally Posted by shady milkman View Post
    must feel good knowing you got that 9" there to play with
    I was never easy on it even when I had the 10 bolt. ;

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    Senior Member rajiv1998's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Packy View Post
    You don't need a new block. The LS1 block will hold 800-900 hp and has held for more before with good tuning and good fuel. Exactly what someone mentioned already. At first 8 psi is good enough but IMHO that is the limit of the stock longblock. Some have ran more and still are but trust me they are only on blip of the throttle away from doing damage in the wrong conditions. You initially said you wanted to throw 10-12 psi at it. That is a different story than what you saying now. If you have the ability I would do forged pistons and rods, LS6 ('02-'04) or blower cam, dual fuel pumps with new rails/regulator/60 lb/hr inj. and a D-1SC tuner kit. Then you have to think about transmission and rearend next... That becomes your weak link when adding any amount of power even headers with a simple cam can cause the good ole 4L60shE to crap out. The ten bolts as long as they have had lower gears in them I have not really had a problem with them in my experience. I tried to blow mine up for a few months when I bought my 12 bolt but it held everything I threw at it. I dunno... You now are armed with plenty of things to think over.
    Exactly. Im glad some1 agrees with me that 8psi is the max (others think im crazy, not ppl on this site) but the general public. You will need to forge the block if you want to make anything above 8psi. Your probably looking into about 10k worth of just parts if you want to do this right.

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