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Forged internals for FI

This is a discussion on Forged internals for FI within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; I am now getting conflicting information. Speed Inc says that the FMIC is the most efficient. Bob says with a ...

  1. #81
    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    I am now getting conflicting information.

    Speed Inc says that the FMIC is the most efficient.

    Bob says with a front mount intercooler the best way to get airflow to it is to cut out the bumper. Anything directly mounted in front of the radiator can cause problems, especially when talking about running hard on a road course. With a front mount intercooler the best way to get airflow to it is to cut out the bumper.

    I don't do any road coarse racing. I do drive the car spirited on cruises during the summer. I usually drive the car anywhere from an hour to two hours and get on it a few times here are there. This is ALL city driving, which involves stopping at lights.

    Frost - You're a trusted site sponsor and I take what you say to heart. You're saying a FMIC is well recommended over the twins.

    So it looks like 2 to 1 here...

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    Junior Member 396375's Avatar
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    Performabuilt and RPM are 2 of the best transmission specialists.Performabuilt actually guaranties their trans will not break,even for racing.Just pay the shipping and they will fix it.Another big plus is Frank the owner is available almost all the time on Yahoo chat.I've seen him on there at 3:00 in the morning.Very dedicated.I went with RPM because because they are considered the best by the Vette community and I have a C5.I bought my Level V from another forum member and once I broke the pump installing the trans myself.RPM offered to fix it for nothing.
    As far as Meth goes a kit for $400-$600 will save your motor.I consider it as important as having an intercooler.Only problem is some Tuners like Speed Inc will not tune with Meth.



    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I am getting a wideband O2 gauge.

    As far as your stall size/tranny selection, I am going to leave that one for the auto guys. I would guess it really depends on your style of driving. Mostly street? Drag? The A4 cars trannies aren't really robust. Most people upgrade the clutch packs, sunshell, sprag, etc. The two most popular transmission places I know of are Performabuilt (site sponsor) and RPM (they built my T56). I heard Tick does good work also.

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    I have to agree that Performabuilt is probably the way to go. Mr. Luos turned me on to another brand, but their warranty was only 6 months. If you go with a transmission and converter package, Performabuilt will warranty it for 2 years -- even if used at the track. Lucky for me, their shop is less than 2 hours from where I live, so I can just go pick one up when I order it.

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    Apparently there are twin 3.5" coolers and twin 4.5" coolers.

    The people telling me to go with the twins are saying they are using the 4.5" larger twin coolers with no problems up to 575rwhp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    Apparently there are twin 3.5" coolers and twin 4.5" coolers.

    The people telling me to go with the twins are saying they are using the 4.5" larger twin coolers with no problems up to 575rwhp.
    Yeah there are two sets but the new kits are only supposed to come with the twin 4.5" not the twin 3.5" inch ones. Those are the old ones. If you don't wanna hack your bumper cover up then get the twin 4.5" inch IC's. If you don't care then go with the FMIC. These cars are so old and cheap now I could give a shit less about hacking a bumper up. Your car is a bit more special but it really won't be worth anything for like another twenty years or so. Then it needs to be completely stock to be of any significant value. With the twin intercoolers you have to drill two holes per side in the lower radiator bracket to mount on. You also have to trim down your lower air deflector to about 30-36 inches to fit the two charge pipes that go from the head unit to the IC's. Here are the instructions for the F-body kit. Read them and see what you think then make your decision.

    http://www.ls1.com/ed/procharger_owners_manual.pdf

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    Moderator 35th-ANV-SS's Avatar
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    That doesn't look too difficult and looks like either way I'll be hacking something up so I might as well get what is more efficient.

    My 1st quote is charging $1200 for the install, $500 for the custom fab work, $225 for the gauge install, $300 for the pump install, and $125 for the BAP install. That is $2400 just for install Yeah, this can't be THAT difficult to do.

    The SDCE dual fan kit is $400. Do I really need this right now?

    Materials for the charge side are $500 for Stainless Steel. I wonder if I can have an exhaust shop do this for me if I give them measurements.

    This is costing WAY more than I had budgeted so I am looking for ways to cut some cost here.

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    Junior Member 396375's Avatar
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    No offence.Don't cheap out.Most exhaust shops will give you a hack job and you will be very unhappy.Buy the coplete kit and either do what you can yourself or give it to someone who has done it before.Like I said earlier there are a number of shops offering to do the whole install and tune for around $6800.You will never beat that price.Pieceing the kit togeher and going to different shops for each job is the worst thing you can do.Companys are hungry for buisness at this time of year and there are some great deals to be had.
    I really like this forum but if you go to LS1tech.com there are lots of "how to" articles on doing this job.You might also cruise the parts for sale section as there are some killer deals right now.
    Here is an example of a smoking deal that just sold.$9500!

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-p...-complete.html

    Just for a laugh here is an add I found.Notice the shipping price.Too funny.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Super...Q5fAccessories

    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    That doesn't look too difficult and looks like either way I'll be hacking something up so I might as well get what is more efficient.

    My 1st quote is charging $1200 for the install, $500 for the custom fab work, $225 for the gauge install, $300 for the pump install, and $125 for the BAP install. That is $2400 just for install Yeah, this can't be THAT difficult to do.

    The SDCE dual fan kit is $400. Do I really need this right now?

    Materials for the charge side are $500 for Stainless Steel. I wonder if I can have an exhaust shop do this for me if I give them measurements.

    This is costing WAY more than I had budgeted so I am looking for ways to cut some cost here.
    Last edited by 396375; 12-29-2010 at 11:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 396375 View Post
    No offence.Don't cheap out.Most exhaust shops will give you a hack job and you will be very unhappy.Buy the coplete kit and either do what you can yourself or give it to someone who has done it before.Like I said earlier there are a number of shops offering to do the whole install and tune for around $6800.You will never beat that price.Pieceing the kit togeher and going to different shops for each job is the worst thing you can do.Companys are hungry for buisness at this time of year and there are some great deals to be had.
    I really like this forum but if you go to LS1tech.com there are lots of "how to" articles on doing this job.You might also cruise the parts for sale section as there are some killer deals right now.
    Here is an example of a smoking deal that just sold.$9500!

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-p...-complete.html

    Just for a laugh here is an add I found.Notice the shipping price.Too funny.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Super...Q5fAccessories
    Well my quote for everything came in at over 11K, so your price of $6,800 is pretty much like seeing an Unicorn in my eyes...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    This is costing WAY more than I had budgeted so I am looking for ways to cut some cost here.

    If you weren't so damn far away, you could be using my garage for the install. I would really like to assist in an F.I. project like this -- very cool stuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pajeff02 View Post
    If you weren't so damn far away, you could be using my garage for the install. I would really like to assist in an F.I. project like this -- very cool stuff.
    I know, damn Indiana...no one lives around here!

    I have a friend that knows cars in and out, not f-body's, but Fords. He has a S/C on 3 of his Marauder's and I believe his Mach also. I plan on getting him to help.

    I have another friend with a Mustang GT running the P1SC so I am hoping he can pitch in too.

    I plan on installing everything myself EXCEPT the injectors. This way I can at least drive the car to the tuning shop to have them install those and then tune it.

    My friend with the Marauders also tunes Fords, but I don't know if he knows anyone local that has HP Tuners to get me up and running with the new injectors to be able to drive to get it tuned. The tuning place is about 1.5 hrs away.

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    Be sure your tuner approves whatever injectors you plan to go with. That was one of the issues we discussed in Banish's EFI Calibration class.

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    They quoted using the Siemens Mototron 60-lb injectors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I know, damn Indiana...no one lives around here!

    I have a friend that knows cars in and out, not f-body's, but Fords. He has a S/C on 3 of his Marauder's and I believe his Mach also. I plan on getting him to help.

    I have another friend with a Mustang GT running the P1SC so I am hoping he can pitch in too.

    I plan on installing everything myself EXCEPT the injectors. This way I can at least drive the car to the tuning shop to have them install those and then tune it.

    My friend with the Marauders also tunes Fords, but I don't know if he knows anyone local that has HP Tuners to get me up and running with the new injectors to be able to drive to get it tuned. The tuning place is about 1.5 hrs away.
    If I were closer I would help as well. Heck I have pulled my complete system apart many times. It is all a breeze right now except for that damn EPP FMIC kit with truck inlet. I cannot figure out a way to get the filter above the charge pipe on it....

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    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 35th-ANV-SS View Post
    I know, damn Indiana...no one lives around here!

    I have a friend that knows cars in and out, not f-body's, but Fords. He has a S/C on 3 of his Marauder's and I believe his Mach also. I plan on getting him to help.

    I have another friend with a Mustang GT running the P1SC so I am hoping he can pitch in too.

    I plan on installing everything myself EXCEPT the injectors. This way I can at least drive the car to the tuning shop to have them install those and then tune it.

    My friend with the Marauders also tunes Fords, but I don't know if he knows anyone local that has HP Tuners to get me up and running with the new injectors to be able to drive to get it tuned. The tuning place is about 1.5 hrs away.


    I have a (very competent) installer in Fort Wayne IN and I will be back there in just a few months for tuning. The guy in Fort Wayne works out of a shop on his own property but he's all GM and has built an impressive array of cars and trucks. I travel there several times a year for tuning!

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    Quote Originally Posted by 396375 View Post
    No offence.Don't cheap out.Most exhaust shops will give you a hack job and you will be very unhappy.Buy the coplete kit and either do what you can yourself or give it to someone who has done it before.Like I said earlier there are a number of shops offering to do the whole install and tune for around $6800.You will never beat that price.Pieceing the kit togeher and going to different shops for each job is the worst thing you can do.Companys are hungry for buisness at this time of year and there are some great deals to be had.
    I really like this forum but if you go to LS1tech.com there are lots of "how to" articles on doing this job.You might also cruise the parts for sale section as there are some killer deals right now.
    Here is an example of a smoking deal that just sold.$9500!
    Just curious who is offering this deal? Haven't seen it on any of the vendor threads. That's a hell of a price if someone was close to me offering that, tune alone is $500.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I have a (very competent) installer in Fort Wayne IN and I will be back there in just a few months for tuning. The guy in Fort Wayne works out of a shop on his own property but he's all GM and has built an impressive array of cars and trucks. I travel there several times a year for tuning!
    Steve - Fort Wayne is about 2 hrs from me. I would definitely be interested in this when the time comes. Keep me informed!

  17. #97
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    It took a friend of mine roughly half a week to a week of work to convert his Vortech'd Camaro from an aftercooler setup to a FMIC, and it involved lots of relocation/modification of existing components (such as battery, coolant reservoir) and large heavy duty zip ties to keep the piping from shifting/dropping (this is where the custom fabrication costs come in). He used generic piping bends cut to fit, and silicone hoses, and had to cut the bumper and hack up the bumper support.

    It sure isn't an easy job to do without a shop, but it can be done if you are determined enough. I see that you would rather just pay a shop to do it right the first time.

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    Just take your time..... Its not difficult... Its more time consuming

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    Injector sizing:

    Flow Rate = (HP x BSFC) / (# of Injectors x Max Cycle)

    BSFC is "Brake Specific Fuel Consumption and on a F.I. application is generally said to be 0.55. For N.A. the standard figure is 0.45. Max duty cycle on injectors should be no more than 80%, or 0.80.

    I think you said 600 hp? So your formula would be:

    Flow Rate = (600 x 0.55) / (8 x .080)

    Flow Rate = 330 / 6.4

    Flow Rate = 51.5625 lb/hr injectors


    Assuming the horsepower level is accurate, it looks like 60 lb/hr injectors would be more than adequate. Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    I have a (very competent) installer in Fort Wayne IN and I will be back there in just a few months for tuning. The guy in Fort Wayne works out of a shop on his own property but he's all GM and has built an impressive array of cars and trucks. I travel there several times a year for tuning!
    I got an e-mail back from him today. His pricing for install has made me strongly consider having him just install everything now for me....decisions decisions.

    I know I'll have trouble with the piping and will need to have a shop install the injectors as well anyway...

    Assuming I had him do the install, what would be your charge to tune it for me when you came out?

    Also - Do you think I need a BAP with this or no? I will be running the Racetronix kit with 60-lb injectors. I plan on going with a meth kit too, probably not until next spring though.

    Thanks!

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