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Any sts turbo cars out there?

This is a discussion on Any sts turbo cars out there? within the Forced Induction forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Originally Posted by Frost Here's the deal with meth. It becomes integral to your fuel system, so you don't skimp ...

  1. #41
    Member knappbunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frost View Post
    Here's the deal with meth.

    It becomes integral to your fuel system, so you don't skimp on quality here. The Alkycontrol kits are far and away the nicest that I have used/installed/tuned. Mine has been running hiccup free and allowing me to run 16-17psi on pump gas for over 2 years. Julio Don is the owner/engineer/customer service tech and is very knowledgeable.
    thanks

  2. #42
    Member squee's Avatar
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    knappbunch, have you had any problem with the intake pipe and the driver side SFC? I was looking to order some for my car (should be here in a week and a half or so). I'd just like to get em now.

  3. #43
    Member knappbunch's Avatar
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    the drivers side pipe actually acts as the sfc for cars up to 650 horsepower according to chris at sts. I do not have sfc's and my car seems plenty stiff with just the pipe. It actually bolts to the same spots the sfc does. you can still use pass. one and just let the driver side sit or you would have to re do the pipe I believe.

  4. #44
    Member squee's Avatar
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    I was thinking of getting a set of the UMI 3 point ones and just getting some oval pipe and running it under there possibly.

  5. #45
    Member TedsB4Csled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squee View Post
    I was thinking of getting a set of the UMI 3 point ones and just getting some oval pipe and running it under there possibly.
    Sub-frame connectors interfere w/STS piping? 3 point, not 2 point, right? Why not stick with 2 point and fabricate a custom cross member? Are you using an STB also?

  6. #46
    Member TedsB4Csled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knappbunch View Post
    the drivers side pipe actually acts as the sfc for cars up to 650 horsepower according to chris at sts. I do not have sfc's and my car seems plenty stiff with just the pipe. It actually bolts to the same spots the sfc does. you can still use pass. one and just let the driver side sit or you would have to re do the pipe I believe.
    You have any pics of this?

  7. #47
    Member squee's Avatar
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    I think it interferes with both 2 and 3 point. Reason I want 3 point is they would help strengthen it more and are the best way to go with a tunnel mount torque arm, which I would prefer to the relocated one where it mounts on the tranny crossmember. I just don't like the clamp type mount of the tranny crossmember mounted type.

  8. #48
    Member knappbunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TedsB4Csled View Post
    You have any pics of this?
    I don't but if you look at thge pics of the kit on sts website you will see that it bolts to the rear lca and to the bolt that holds the sub frame on. just like the sfc do. What chris from sts says is use the pipe on one side and use the sfc on the other.

  9. #49
    Senior Member JoshuaGrooms83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knappbunch View Post
    the drivers side pipe actually acts as the sfc for cars up to 650 horsepower according to chris at sts. I do not have sfc's and my car seems plenty stiff with just the pipe. It actually bolts to the same spots the sfc does. you can still use pass. one and just let the driver side sit or you would have to re do the pipe I believe.
    WHAT!!!!??????
    You are telling me that a hollow (probably aluminum) tube acts as a SFC in place of an actual structure holding component. I dont think so. There has to be another way....

  10. #50
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    they will tell you that there is nothing wrong with their PCV system that SEALS THE CRANKCASE UNDER BOOST too, and that you don't need need an IC either because of a long charged air pipe (??!)... It's hard to believe that the most "mainstream" turbo maker for these cars could be so dishonest.

  11. #51
    Junior Member Chad Nielson's Avatar
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    Well guys if you have any questions just ask me!! I WORK THERE!!!! The crankcase does not see boost ever!! The new kit does have an I/C. The SFC pipe is .65 In thick wall tubing that looks alot like the SLP SFC's with the three point.
    A TYPICAL DAY AT WORK!!!!

  12. #52
    Junior Member Chad Nielson's Avatar
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    How do I enter pics? I will show you everything.

  13. #53
    Senior Member JoshuaGrooms83's Avatar
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    well, first off, ive been asking around about sts and someone pointed out somthing ive never heard before.
    oil in the pipes? im guessing this person is refering to the intake pipe, not sure. and excessive blowby.
    Anyway, i havnt had a chance to see how the intake pipe is mounted but is it true that sts trys to pass off the intake pipe as an Subframe connector? The only reason i ask is that i have UMI SFC and those are some hefty pieces of metal.

    We all know they didnt build an intake pipe to the same specs to an actual structual holding SFC. It was designed as an intake pipe, right? right.
    oh and go into "post reply" and attch pics there
    Last edited by JoshuaGrooms83; 06-16-2008 at 09:00 PM. Reason: felt like it

  14. #54
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Nielson View Post
    Well guys if you have any questions just ask me!! I WORK THERE!!!! The crankcase does not see boost ever!! The new kit does have an I/C. The SFC pipe is .65 In thick wall tubing that looks alot like the SLP SFC's with the three point.
    You are half-right, but the kit's PCV design is dead-wrong. After changing it around on more than a few I can tell you for sure.

    Here's STS's deal, rather than stick with the normal FI type PCV, which would be to run a line (with an oil separator) back to the back of the car at the inlet hat so that the crankcase always sees an evacuating vacuum, they decided to draw from the front of the car still, up by the manifold. This is a problem, since the manifold will pressurize under boost. To circumvent, a hobbs (pressure activated) switch closes it's contacts under boost, and a solenoid seals off the crankcase from the manifold's feed which keeps boost from being dumped in the crankcase. This, for a split second, may sound ok... but it is not. At the point where you need the strongest vacuum from your PCV system, WOT under boost, you get NONE. They could save the money that the hobbs switch, solenoid, and associated wiring costs (since it has to come off anyway) and just include a catch-can and a piece of line and fitting for it to attach to back at the rigid neck where the filter mounts.

    And PLEASE GOD stop telling people they don't need an IC since the charge pipe is long. It's ridiculous and can be proven false by both physics and actual run logs.

    I'm not a "rear mount hater", though it poses obvious disadvantages, but I don't like seeing my customers frustrations when trying to get their setups up and running solidly be multiplied by false claims. The STS cars that I have tuned have consumed more time than ANY other setup. It's not the tuning, it's all of the rework involved to get the cars ready to be tuned. If I didn't feel so badly for the blind sided owners I wouldn't even take on the work.

    Just be honest with people.
    Last edited by Frost; 06-17-2008 at 08:09 AM.

  15. #55
    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    You can either buy the STS kit and hope that you wont have problems or when you do have problems, join the crowd of people that hate the kit! I've always said it's a great idea but needs work. And the customer shouldn't be the one that's left to perfect their kits. Sorry Chad, but you just have to be honest with people here! The blow bye is real! The oiling in the pipes is real!

  16. #56
    Junior Member Chad Nielson's Avatar
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    What have i said, that you find dishonest. I never said there is no blow bye or that there is no oiling in the pipes. Actually we have a few people that have had these problems before. But they are from the installers error. And then you have people that have never had a problem with the kit. But honestly what do you mean by BLOW BYE!

  17. #57
    Junior Member Chad Nielson's Avatar
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    So Frost who says you dont need an I/C. I have one on my car. Before i got one there was just a straight pipe and at five pounds i did not notice a difference in performance. I would like to see you pass emissions with that setup, and you need to do more research cause we have two kits that pull vacum from the air intake at the turbo. The two kits are actually CARB approved!!
    Last edited by Chad Nielson; 06-17-2008 at 11:18 AM.

  18. #58
    Member cailey37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Nielson View Post
    What have i said, that you find dishonest. I never said there is no blow bye or that there is no oiling in the pipes. Actually we have a few people that have had these problems before. But they are from the installers error. And then you have people that have never had a problem with the kit. But honestly what do you mean by BLOW BYE!
    Of course it was the installers.....ever last one of the people that had issues with it....had to be...not STS.....

    I believe FROST summed the blow bye issue up quite nice......

  19. #59
    Yo Da Lin The Valley..... astyles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Nielson View Post
    How do I enter pics? I will show you everything.
    use "pimp and host" or "photobucket"

  20. #60
    TunedbyFrost.com Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Nielson View Post
    So Frost who says you dont need an I/C. I have one on my car. Before i got one there was just a straight pipe and at five pounds i did not notice a difference in performance. I would like to see you pass emissions with that setup, and you need to do more research cause we have two kits that pull vacum from the air intake at the turbo. The two kits are actually CARB approved!!

    the 3 that I reworked were absolutely not. The last car, it took the dipstick blowing out and spraying oil under the hood of his "show" car before the owner would make/allow the change, needless to say, it hasn't happened since.

    I haven't seen a "CARB" kit but let me ask you, why was it not done like this from the beginning on ALL kits? This is standard fare for FI "kits".

    Who says you don't need an IC? Well STS says that, not me, go talk to your ad department. You guys are the ones telling your customers at 5ish psi that your "long charge pipe cools the air making an IC unneeded". This puts me in the dubious position of showing the customer an IAT rise which they don't understand and because of timing pulled pulled, causes a HP loss that they likewise do not understand. At 5psi, you are looking at an intake air temp rise of 60-80 degs F when you put 4 gears together on the street or track! It should have been something that you not only saw while tuning but had to do some work to get right on your own car. You cannot beat physics. If you think you don't lose HP when your IATs hit 160-170F, you need to recalibrate the ole butt-dyno.

    I'm not trying to upset you, but rather get you [your company] to realize that their entry level kits target beginners and they are endlessly frustrated by being told things like "no IC needed" and then finding out differently.

    That meth kit is a whole different ball of wax in itself. Even removing the solid-state relay's injector ground reference and running it off straight ground and pressure switch, the volume is still too meager to move a 7-8psi car more than a half-of-a-point richer. It *should* bury the AFR like other kits. To add insult to injury, the kit costs more than the most premium kits like Alkycontrol, yet comes with parts common to kits by other major makers that are half it's cost.

    The last two I tuned would not buy ICs, and one of them is running 12 psi actually on a 3.8 V6 fbody. With the meth at full blast and fully verified to be working, we still get 60deg+ rises out of full pulls (again, only about 0.5-0.6 AFR enrichment too). By comparison, a TTi X-kit that I did on a vette at 16psi with no IC and an Alkycontrol system had IATs at AMBIENT to +10 by the end of 4th gear (and chopped over 2 points off of the AFR).

    Fix the issues and I won't be the guy here telling people about them when they ask, but they need to be warned by someone. If it was always n00b postings asking about ATI, I would be telling them about the kits issues (which are far less and much more cheaply managed) as well.

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