VA Reciprocity Restored, Expanded, ...Anti-Gunners in Tizzy

[wileyCoyote]

...power to the people, ...the backlash to the democrat attorney general, herring's, unilateral jackass move to rescind all reciprocity, resulted in egg of the face of mccauliffe and the anti-gun ninnies, ..and mark herring getting the brunt of the tread-marks from the bus!

McAuliffe retreats on carry-permit reciprocity, restores agreements with 25 states « Hot Air

[theorangeguy]

That didn't take very long...

[Zinergy]

Right, they got shut down fast. Good.

This was just another clear case of politicians making laws based on a parties agenda. They kept claiming it will make VA safer as they do not want to accept other states CCW permits as the other states certification process might not be good enough for VA's standards. Yet in VA you only need to take an online class for two hours and then you can send in the application. How much easier can it get than that?

WI was on the list of states to not be recognized. You need 6 hours of training here for the instate only permit. If you want the permit that is accepted in 20 some states you need to take a different class. So if your a WI resident and want to carry in VA you need like 10 hours training or 5 times the amount of VA. And you have to take the class in person not online like VA.

[SMWS6TA]

If you think about it the Gun Grabbers and AG really did win in the long term. How you might ask????



Both the State House & Senate had overwhelming majority in that if they had followed thru and passed the law it would leave no doubt about it. It takes 2/3rds majority to overrule their Governor's veto. Now think long term....later down the road there is no way the current majority will stay in the majority. Odds/past proves this. So the chances of making it law later down the road become slimmer. This is their victory and a loss for the people.

[theorangeguy]

Right, they got shut down fast. Good.

This was just another clear case of politicians making laws based on a parties agenda. They kept claiming it will make VA safer as they do not want to accept other states CCW permits as the other states certification process might not be good enough for VA's standards. Yet in VA you only need to take an online class for two hours and then you can send in the application. How much easier can it get than that?

WI was on the list of states to not be recognized. You need 6 hours of training here for the instate only permit. If you want the permit that is accepted in 20 some states you need to take a different class. So if your a WI resident and want to carry in VA you need like 10 hours training or 5 times the amount of VA. And you have to take the class in person not online like VA.

TN was also on the list of states not accepted and you have to take a class, pass a written test, and then shoot a certain score at the range in order to get a permit here.

Pretty sure that's way more than what most states require...

[SMWS6TA]

TN was also on the list of states not accepted and you have to take a class, pass a written test, and then shoot a certain score at the range in order to get a permit here.

Pretty sure that's way more than what most states require...

AL =

Here it's "Hi my name is Bubby Joe, here's my X on this paper and my dollars you need. Picture? Hold on, gotta get my tooth out."


<<Not complaining either. Just telling it like it is. No Class, no qualification. Just the Background check. Shit mine needs renewal in July.

[Zinergy]

Mine needs renewal in November. That 5 years flew by.

[SMWS6TA]

It was annually here then just after I got mine they up it to 5 yrs. This time I'm getting the 5 yr one.

[theorangeguy]

AL =

Here it's "Hi my name is Bubby Joe, here's my X on this paper and my dollars you need. Picture? Hold on, gotta get my tooth out."


<<Not complaining either. Just telling it like it is. No Class, no qualification. Just the Background check. Shit mine needs renewal in July.

I had one in Huntsville when I was in Alabama and I was pretty damn surprised at how easy it was...

[5.0THIS]

TN was also on the list of states not accepted and you have to take a class, pass a written test, and then shoot a certain score at the range in order to get a permit here.

Pretty sure that's way more than what most states require...

People should absolutely have to prove certified training (like in your state) of some sort to receive a carry permit. I'm all for states denying reciprocity to other states that are lax on handing out permits. What too many conceal carry advocates don't realize is that their biggest enemy should be untrained idiots running around with guns.

[wileyCoyote]

...yet all the "untrained idiots" running around out there really aren't the problem as some might tend to think... the other case is the balance w/ a fundamental right, ..for example in my state open carry is constitutional and no "license" is required. it can't be "licensed" because then it would infringe on the RTKBA in Ohio's constitution, let alone the US constitution...

...if "untrained idiots" are a problem, then why aren't they also required to get competency certification to vote?

[5.0THIS]

...yet all the "untrained idiots" running around out there really aren't the problem as some might tend to think... the other case is the balance w/ a fundamental right, ..for example in my state open carry is constitutional and no "license" is required. it can't be "licensed" because then it would infringe on the RTKBA in Ohio's constitution, let alone the US constitution...

...if "untrained idiots" are a problem, then why aren't they also required to get competency certification to vote?

It's always an untrained idiot that causes the problems, or at least in the lions share of instances. It isn't against the 2A to require training for carrying a firearm, or even open carry for that matter. Want to exercise your right to carry? Go take a class. Something like that would go a long way towards making gun owners look like less of a group of nutcases to those folks that are against guns.

And to be quite honest wiley, gun owners like you are a problem going forward too. People who dig their heels in at ANY gun legislation going forward no matter what it is. People see gun owners like that as completely unwilling to adapt to changes in society and the world itself. I hate to break it to you, but the constitution was written a long time ago, and even the framers that wrote it argued that it should be torn up and re-written every generation or two on the basis that no living generation should be subject to the values and standards of prior generations. I have an interest in gun rights going forward, but unlike you, I see the way things are going. I understand that it's a real possibility that a societal shift regarding feelings on guns may soon render them a thing of the past. I don't want it, but it's possible, and you're not going to win against the majority no matter how hard you dig in your heels. Compromises have to be made, and common sense will hopefully win out. Gotta give and take, for both sides.

And before you even go there, don't even try the slippery slope argument. It's a logical fallacy and doesn't apply here.



Oh and your voting analogy is a strawman and a horrible one at that. Voting doesn't make a person dangerous, no matter how they vote. A gun certainly can though. Cant shoot up a school with a vote.

[5.0THIS]

We'll probably just have to agree to disagree on this one. We both want gun rights going forward, but see differing paths to keeping those rights.

[wileyCoyote]

..the thing about "compromise", in this arena, is what that always seems to mean is more infringement on us... we've been "compromising" w/ the anti-gun movement for decades... a major blow was the GCA of '68, ...and the Clinton gun ban which thankfully sunset...

...and the reason the framers made the constitution so difficult to amend (2/3rds both houses of congress, plus ratification by 3/4 of the states), is to shield what they viewed as fundamental rights from the undulations in political fanaticism (i.e. "political winds", ..tyranny of the majority)...

...and yes, the "voting" analogy is prescient, ...the ramifications of elections has a major impact, especially on foreign policy... you can bet that the policies, ideologies, and agendas of those put into power have life and death consequences, on a much larger scale than a few "untrained nutjobs" carrying guns in public...

[SMWS6TA]

It's always an untrained idiot that causes the problems, or at least in the lions share of instances. It isn't against the 2A to require training for carrying a firearm, or even open carry for that matter. Want to exercise your right to carry? Go take a class. Something like that would go a long way towards making gun owners look like less of a group of nutcases to those folks that are against guns.

May be surprising but I agree on a class or two in training.

However I would also add this class beginning in elementary schools and continue it through HS. NRA Safety classes on how to properly use firearms and what exactly the Conceal Carry/Castle Doctrine mean. This would be conducted in US Government classes on how the COTUS work. We need to go back to teaching our children what the COTUS is, how Government works, there are way too many idiots that vote and have no clue what their rights are.


Now why would I do it in elementary school.....Start from that age and by the time they are teens the myth and awe of firearms will be gone and maybe, just maybe they'll learn that firearm safety is not something like they learn in a video game.



My kids were taught that firearms are not toys at the age of 5. If a 5 yr old can understand this anyone can.

[5.0THIS]

That will never be taught in schools, period. There would be a massive uproar from a lot of people. And before you go there... they're entitled to that opinion on teaching kids about guns as much as you're entitled to yours. Some people are just going to be against guns or any gun education. Doesn't matter what any pro-gun person says to them. And the number of those people grows every time a school gets shot up.

[wileyCoyote]

...I have a feeling you haven't been up to date on the latest national polling on 2A support, new CHL applications, gun sales, and classes have all been trending up... support for gun rights over "gun control" basically at all time highs... the rest of America is a lot different than Boulder...

[5.0THIS]

...I have a feeling you haven't been up to date on the latest national polling on 2A support, new CHL applications, gun sales, and classes have all been trending up... support for gun rights over "gun control" basically at all time highs... the rest of America is a lot different than Boulder...

edit... not worth it...


Let's just leave this one alone. I'm getting sick and fucking tired of having political debates in the gun section. It has just turned this section into a politics sub-forum.

[INMY01TA]

5.0 go cry in the corner. Why do you still hang out here? where are all these "instances" of untrained idiots running around with guns?

[Ed Blown Vert]

Youi guys are lucky, can't get a permit here in Cali.
My 2 cents...
But I have to agree getting a permit to carry, should require some type of safety training and background check.
Don't care for open-carry.