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  1. #1
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Beware of "Swatting" for CCW and Open Carry

    This is more FYI then debate. I've had this done on me twice but the last time was 3 yrs ago because some one saw either the butt of my pistol showed or the shirt showed the outline of it.



    Second Amendment groups are accusing the gun control lobby of putting law-abiding owners of firearms in danger by urging people to call the police on anyone carrying a gun in public.


    As more states relax rules about open-carrying of guns, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence has taken to social media to urge the public to assume gun-toters are trouble, and to call the cops on anyone they feel may be a threat. “If you see someone carrying a firearm in public—openly or concealed—and have ANY doubts about their intent, call 911 immediately and ask police to come to the scene,” the group wrote on its widely followed Facebook page. “Never put your safety, or the safety of your loved ones, at the mercy of weak gun laws that arm individuals in public with little or no criminal and/or mental health screening.”


    That approach, according to a blog post by Ohio-based Buckeye Firearms Association, could give rise to needless, tense confrontations between police and gun owners. The association and other similar groups liken the tactic to “swatting,” or the act of tricking an emergency service into dispatching responders based on a false report. Many online harassment campaigns have been known to participate in the practice. “This practice is exactly what they [Coalition to Stop Gun Violence] are doing,” said Erich Pratt, spokesman for Virginia-based Gun Owners of America. “It’s one thing if someone is using a gun in an illegal or unlawful manner. No one is questioning that. But this clearly sounds like swatting.”

    Gun control groups accused of ‘swatting’ open-carry permit holders, putting lives at risk | Fox News

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    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    Just out of curiosity, when police meet with someone who has been "swatted", what goes on? Do they just make normal concersation and ask for thier carry permit? Its almost impossible to get a carry permitt in the Peoples Republic of MD.

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    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    In my incident (this was in a Walmart) the sheriff approached with caution but not with his weapon drawn. He asked me if I would answer some questions and I said sure but before you ask may I retrieve my ccw permit from my wallet that is in my front cargo pocket. He said sure, so with no quick movements I pull it out and hand it over. He looks it over and then hands it back. He said sorry but I had to ask. I said no problem it's your job to, and may I ask was I doing something wrong. He said no it was that a manager saw that I was blue printing my pistol and wanted him to check me.

    It all comes down to how you carry yourself and how they come in. They are going to come on strong at first because their safety and their partners safety is #1. Obey commands and make no sudden movements and always try to be polite even when one is acting like an asshole.


    Also it varies in state to state on your responsibilities. YOU MUST ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THE LAWS ARE FOR THE STATE YOU ARE CARRYING IN. For example I can walk into almost all businesses even if alcohol is served. In Texas it's different. If there is a sign that states no conceal carry you can't walk in. That may have just changed this yr because they just passed some new regs on that and open carry.

    Now here's a fun one - if you own a business or on your property you can open carry and allow your employees/family to open carry while they are working.

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    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    In this thread we learn that Scott isn't very good at concealing his pistol.
    this post is meant as a joke and in no way should it be interpreted as a serious or meaningful reply. The author of this post cannot be held liable for any damages, both emotional and physical, that may be incurred from the reading of this post. By acknowledging this disclaimer you hereby release the author from any and all liability

  6. #6
    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    In my incident (this was in a Walmart) the sheriff approached with caution but not with his weapon drawn. He asked me if I would answer some questions and I said sure but before you ask may I retrieve my ccw permit from my wallet that is in my front cargo pocket. He said sure, so with no quick movements I pull it out and hand it over. He looks it over and then hands it back. He said sorry but I had to ask. I said no problem it's your job to, and may I ask was I doing something wrong. He said no it was that a manager saw that I was blue printing my pistol and wanted him to check me.

    It all comes down to how you carry yourself and how they come in. They are going to come on strong at first because their safety and their partners safety is #1. Obey commands and make no sudden movements and always try to be polite even when one is acting like an asshole.


    Also it varies in state to state on your responsibilities. YOU MUST ALWAYS KNOW WHAT THE LAWS ARE FOR THE STATE YOU ARE CARRYING IN. For example I can walk into almost all businesses even if alcohol is served. In Texas it's different. If there is a sign that states no conceal carry you can't walk in. That may have just changed this yr because they just passed some new regs on that and open carry.

    Now here's a fun one - if you own a business or on your property you can open carry and allow your employees/family to open carry while they are working.
    Good to know. I just hope other people are being treated as reasonably.

    I'm lucky in that where I work, there are tons of armed guards all over the place, and I am mostly a home body because I am pretty sure my state comes down on "carriers" with a ton of bricks.

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    I know some people have noticed me carrying. Mainly when loading up the truck at a store and I'm moving around a lot etc. I have never had an issue carrying but I'm quite handsome so I got that going for me.

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    Former Mopar Man 2002ssslp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whamhammer View Post
    Just out of curiosity, when police meet with someone who has been "swatted", what goes on? Do they just make normal concersation and ask for thier carry permit? Its almost impossible to get a carry permitt in the Peoples Republic of MD.
    Here in New Jersey they race up to the gun owner, surround them and hit them with stun guns. Take them into custody and have them bail out. They then try them and even if they are completely innocent they find some charges to get them on. Take away any future ownership rights and bankrupt them in court. That's how we roll in the communist state of New Jersey comrades.

  9. #9
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    In this thread we learn that Scott isn't very good at concealing his pistol.
    summer time is always a bitch for me. Since that incident I've stop carrying it there and moved it somewhere else that it doesn't stand out as much. Wearing shorts and t-shirt makes it hard some days.

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    Senior Member Whamhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    summer time is always a bitch for me. Since that incident I've stop carrying it there and moved it somewhere else that it doesn't stand out as much. Wearing shorts and t-shirt makes it hard some days.
    Maybe start wearing normal shorts instead of "booty-shorts"

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    Beware of "Swatting" for CCW and Open Carry

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  12. #12
    Senior Member theorangeguy's Avatar
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    I watched a guy get surrounded by 6 cops at a car show last year. He was open carrying which is 100% legal here and somebody called the cops and said a guy had a gun...cops were already there on site but they called in 3 more anyway. I was standing about 50 feet away from the guy and could notice that the cops were getting in to position to work towards him from all directions and I pointed it out to the people I was with "we were all concealed carrying". Sure enough, about 2 minutes later they had him surrounded and were interrogating the absolute hell out of him...towards the end "probably 15 minutes later" he was getting mad and it was very obvious until he finally got loud and said if I'm breaking a law take me to jail or leave me the hell alone. They finally walked away but this literally went on for 15minutes straight. He ended up leaving about 5 minutes later but it was bullshit to watch a guy who was not doing anything wrong and wasn't being threatened in any way be surrounded and boxed in by a bunch of cops and thats coming from a guy who supports LEO's as much as possible. I get that they had to ask him what he was doing, but once he showed no threat and showed that he wasn't breaking a law they should have left him alone.

  13. #13
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    IMHO if they would sit back and observe the individual first before employing tactics like that, they would save themselves a lot of trouble. On this matter, LEO's, I feel as a whole are not properly trained. If one or two of them would have taken the time to determine if "he is breaking the law?" " is he an immediate threat to others/himself?" "is this the right spot for a confrontation?" instead of head charging in. Most times asking themselves these questions goes a long way.

    I find it sad funny how this is such a hot button issue and they are not trained in handling it.

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    LEO's in most areas are improperly trained in this country. They are trained to defuse any situation first and let the DA ask questions later.

  15. #15
    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    IMHO if they would sit back and observe the individual first before employing tactics like that, they would save themselves a lot of trouble. On this matter, LEO's, I feel as a whole are not properly trained. If one or two of them would have taken the time to determine if "he is breaking the law?" " is he an immediate threat to others/himself?" "is this the right spot for a confrontation?" instead of head charging in. Most times asking themselves these questions goes a long way.

    I find it sad funny how this is such a hot button issue and they are not trained in handling it.
    That's not how it works. If you get a call like that you don't just show up and stand off to the side and observe the situation. A lot of times the dispatcher can and will ask the complainant if the person is breaking any laws, but if officers get sent out, they're going to be talking to that individual. It's their job. If they just stood there and then left without talking to that person and they ended up shooting up the place, imagine the outrage that would ensue.

    And you don't have a clue what training police officers get (I do, I've been through it), so it seems a bit shortsighted to criticize their methods. And the root issue here isn't even with police, so your anger is misguided. Like it or not, most people are, at the very least, uneasy when they see people open carrying a weapon. The overwhelming majority of people in this country don't carry a weapon, and most of those that do are smart enough to do it concealed. And don't give me some diatribe about how open carrying is legal. I know. Most people open carrying are inviting this sort of response. Some even seem to enjoy it, and then post it on youtube. Little do they know they're only adding to the problem and turning more people against gun owners. Your average joe citizen doesn't have any clue what a person who is carrying a gun's intentions are. A lot of them call the police. It's going to keep happening as long as there is gun violence in this country, especially the mass shootings. Within the law or not, if you're going to go to a car show where there are hundreds of people around, including families, don't be surprised when 6 cops surround you. I don't feel sorry for that guy at all. This isn't about crying and bitching about your rights being infringed upon either. It's about acknowledging how most people in society feel about guns, and being smarter about when and how we carry weapons as gun owners. You want to open carry? Be a cop or go live in a place where it's common and people don't freak out (like Alaska).

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    Senior Member theorangeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.0THIS View Post
    That's not how it works. If you get a call like that you don't just show up and stand off to the side and observe the situation. A lot of times the dispatcher can and will ask the complainant if the person is breaking any laws, but if officers get sent out, they're going to be talking to that individual. It's their job. If they just stood there and then left without talking to that person and they ended up shooting up the place, imagine the outrage that would ensue.

    And you don't have a clue what training police officers get (I do, I've been through it), so it seems a bit shortsighted to criticize their methods. And the root issue here isn't even with police, so your anger is misguided. Like it or not, most people are, at the very least, uneasy when they see people open carrying a weapon. The overwhelming majority of people in this country don't carry a weapon, and most of those that do are smart enough to do it concealed. And don't give me some diatribe about how open carrying is legal. I know. Most people open carrying are inviting this sort of response. Some even seem to enjoy it, and then post it on youtube. Little do they know they're only adding to the problem and turning more people against gun owners. Your average joe citizen doesn't have any clue what a person who is carrying a gun's intentions are. A lot of them call the police. It's going to keep happening as long as there is gun violence in this country, especially the mass shootings. Within the law or not, if you're going to go to a car show where there are hundreds of people around, including families, don't be surprised when 6 cops surround you. I don't feel sorry for that guy at all. This isn't about crying and bitching about your rights being infringed upon either. It's about acknowledging how most people in society feel about guns, and being smarter about when and how we carry weapons as gun owners. You want to open carry? Be a cop or go live in a place where it's common and people don't freak out (like Alaska).
    Wasn't a request for anyone to feel sorry for him. Just stating something I witnessed in person. What happened to him is why I'm anti open carry...brings on way too much attention. Proof of that is the fact that 6 people carrying concealed were no more than 50 feet away and watched the whole thing.
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  17. #17
    Spaz is My Mentor SMWS6TA's Avatar
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    5.0 I didn't say ignore the "threat" I said be smart about it. Coming in like gang busters in a large group of ppl is how innocents get shot.

    Any one ask if the guy was a LEO? Most states LEO's are required to carry all times and many "open carry". If he was so now how's that open carry argument?

    All I'm saying is that one officer could have come up and asked him to step away from the crowd and ask questions while the rest be close enough to react if needed.

    Instead they make a huge scene for nothing in this case.



    Also you're right there will always be someone that open carries for the attention, just like there's always someone that will say the most vile offensive shit, funny how it seems one Civil Right is more important then the other when in fact they are all equal.
    Last edited by SMWS6TA; 09-17-2015 at 07:29 AM.

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    casual open carry isn't a problem... it doesn't bother me at, all, ..I've seen open carry in grocery stores and the like, ...if it's securely holstered, and person is acting responsibly, then it shouldn't be an issue... if I see it, i'm generally looking to see what type of gun it is

    ...w/out knowing the extenuating circumstances about the subject's rationale for carrying, and whether or not he was going about his business in a responsible manner, ..I find it hard to criticize the act... open carry is a right (at least in most states/places), ...and oftentimes it's the constitutional fallback (as in my state, OH) to concealed carry, because concealed carry, even "shall issue", is still "licensed", ...procedural, and requires "renewals" (the exception being, perhaps, some places perhaps, like IN or the constitutional carry states)...

    ...there are valid reasons to open carry, ...personal preference, aversion to the concealed carry process/fees/principle, or even the inability to get the concealed carry license because of screwed up statutes (which used to be the case here in OH for certain people)...

    ...so, unless the guy was acting in an irresponsible or reckless manner, ..who am I to cast judgement on whether or not he "should" go about his business, within his right?...

    ...

  19. #19
    Senior Member 5.0THIS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    5.0 I didn't say ignore the "threat" I said be smart about it. Coming in like gang busters in a large group of ppl is how innocents get shot.
    You don't send one officer to respond to a "man with a gun" call. Police don't always get it right, but you're still concentrating on something that isn't the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Any one ask if the guy was a LEO? Most states LEO's are required to carry all times and many "open carry". If he was so now how's that open carry argument?
    Again, it seems painfully obvious you have no clue how law enforcement operates, yet you want to keep arguing it for whatever reason Most states DO NOT require officers to carry. In fact, it rarely is a "state" thing. Most of the time it's individual departmental policy that dictates what officers do when off duty. And very few departments make it a requirement.

    And I don't know a single LEO that open carries when off duty. Are you kidding me? That's beyond laughable. It's asinine. After reading your post I asked a friend of mine that's a sheriffs deputy down in Texas. I asked him if he ever would open carry and he just laughed. He said nobody in the entire department would, or does. LEOs are smart enough to avoid the same hassles that any citizen can encounter when open carrying, especially since any officer can concealed carry in any of the fifty states. And LEOs have long since gotten over the "Look at me I'm a badass because I'm carrying a gun" thing, because they do it every single day they're at work. If anyone knows the need to stay incognito when possible, it's an LEO.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    All I'm saying is that one officer could have come up and asked him to step away from the crowd and ask questions while the rest be close enough to react if needed.

    Instead they make a huge scene for nothing in this case.
    Again, you don't have one officer contact an armed individual in close quarters while other officers lay back and wait to gun him down if shit hits the fan. If they're all close there's a better chance they can respond with less than lethal force. If they're twenty feet away, and that armed individual engages the one close in officer, the others are automatically going to have guns drawn and then we're talking about a serious shit show guaranteed.

    Quote Originally Posted by SMWS6TA View Post
    Also you're right there will always be someone that open carries for the attention, just like there's always someone that will say the most vile offensive shit, funny how it seems one Civil Right is more important then the other when in fact they are all equal.
    This is a strawman. Nonetheless I'll address it. The difference there is how society views those rights. Your average guy views the right to free speech as something he might exercise himself, and something that is critically important to how the government and the people interact. And while most people in society acknowledge the second amendment, it doesn't apply to them as most people don't feel the need to carry a weapon. And people in society don't feel threatened by others exercising their right to free speech. You don't hear about a lot of mass shootings related free speech.

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