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What is it gonna take?

This is a discussion on What is it gonna take? within the Nitrous forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; It's time, I'm pretty certain I'm gonna be playing with n20 in the endless search for more power. I'd love ...

  1. #1
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
    1999 Trans Am

    Talking What is it gonna take?

    It's time, I'm pretty certain I'm gonna be playing with n20 in the endless search for more power. I'd love to say I'm gonna bolt on a turbo or supercharger, but how many times have you heard that story? I'm a realistic guy, and I just don't have several grand lying around to buy a forced induction kit, nor can I afford to be without a ride for a week as I install it. I dunno about you guys, maybe some of you got more disposable income, but I'm a workin' man, and just don't have that kind of capital to play with. for the price n2o seems a lot more realistic. So,...

    What are the minimum requirements for a wet Zex 75-150 adjustable system?

    1. My car has been tuned by Speed inc. in Shaumburg, IL for a medium sized cam, long tubes & a zo6 intake.
    Would I still be safe running a 125 or less shot, even if they may or may not have bumped timing? I just don't know if they have or not, and I don't plan on spraying any more than 100 hp on the street anyway. You guys still think i'll need a timing retard? I can't imagine they would have bumped timing more than a degree or two for a street car, right?

    2.This car is probably never going to be a strip car, it's just a daily driver/ street car. What safety items would you recommend? Spark plugs? timing retard box, fuel pressure safety switch?

    3.Will this spell disaster for my otherwise stock 10bolt sportin' street tires and a stage 2 4L60E with a 3200 stall converter and trans cooler? Will this be sufficent to take an occasional spray on the street?

    I'm brand new to n20, and don't want to be stupid about it. Any pitfalls I should watch out for? All input welcome, I'm just exploring my options here. thanks!
    Last edited by PushroD; 03-23-2008 at 10:21 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Danger731's Avatar
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    Get rid of the timing advance. What is your RWHP #'s ?, 'cause your injectors may be a bit small for the gains you already have. colder plugs, Fuel pressure safety switch. Window switch.
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  3. #3
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
    1999 Trans Am

    Exclamation

    Car made 355rwhp 354rwtq, sportin' the stock 19lb/hr injectors. It's just a street cruiser after all. You think it would have made more power with bigger injectors? I've got your typical bolt ons, nothing crazy. I don't plan on spraying it constantly, just when I feel the need, ya know?

    I'd like to see 400rwhp, I'd probably be happy with that, at least for a little while.

    So a retune is necessary? Or do you think I could employ some type of timing retard when i'm spraying on the street? , Would I be better off investing in tuning software first? I'm no tuner, but I'm thinking I could handle a simple tweak such as that myself.

    I see a fuel pressure saftey switch, and window switch, are pretty much requirements, should I add bigger injectors to that list as well? I'm still a little fuzzy on the wet/dry differences, I get the two confused.

    I really appreciate the input, I like to know my options, I'm learning here, and don't want to hurt my 'Birdie!

  4. #4
    slammed RAWPWR3's Avatar
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    M.R.M. & C.E. Yellow
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    A wet kit sprays nitrous and fuel into youre intake manifold, and the nozzle gets mounted behind the maf in front of the tb. A dry kit sprays only nitrous into the motor but needs to be mounted in front of the maf so the maf could compensate for the nitrous and tell the pcm to add more fuel. I dont know the math to figure out if youre injectors are up to the task of supplying youre motor if you spray, but im pretty sure the older cars had smaller injectors and you dont want to risk maxing them out. Im sure some one else will chime in and help you out further.

  5. #5
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
    1999 Trans Am

    Well, I'm ready. If the car needs bigger injectors, so be it. When it comes to the Trans Am, all other items take the back burner. I'll take all necessary precautions, I just don't want to hurt it! If the adjustable kit is good from 75 to 125 horse, I'll start with the 75. I WANT 400hp to the tire!

    If a tune is absolutely necessary, I'll have it done, I just would like to know if I can forgo that and use a timing retard box that only comes online with the nitrous.

    Plugs? no problem. Premium fuel? It's all I use anyway. Fuel pressure safey switch? Window switch? that's fine, i'll get em. I just don't want to grenade this motor, ya know?
    Last edited by PushroD; 03-24-2008 at 08:10 PM.

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    slammed RAWPWR3's Avatar
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    M.R.M. & C.E. Yellow
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    I know just how you feel man, my car is my baby too, and ive been doing alot of research as far as nitrous is concerned cause ive been thinking bout spraying her now. As far as the timing retard box, unfortunately i dont know about that, but from what ive read these motors can take 150 hits dry or wet on the stock tune without having to pull timing. But seeing as youre's has been tuned and possibly advanced in timing, therein lies youre problem.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Danger731's Avatar
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    http://kgparts.com/index.php?page=fuel-calc

    Plenty of these calculators online

    Go with a wet kit since you have 26lb injectors stock and are cammed.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    dark bowling green
    2000 corvette

    i've been 482 rwhp with stock 26# injectors and stock fuel pump with a 150 wet kit on the white car.

    1.) as far as the tune goes, so long as your timing isn't above 25*, you should be fine.

    2.) go at least one step colder plug. NGK TR6 or autolite 103.

    3.) not really. unless you abuse the use of it, they'll all hold. i'm still on stock 10 bolt in both cars. only change is 3.73 gears.

    here's my dynos back when my car was all stock. and i mean right down to the paper filter stock. so, as you can see, 400 rwhp just isn't an issue to achieve.



    all stock with 150 shot
    Last edited by mrr23; 03-25-2008 at 09:11 PM.

  9. #9
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
    1999 Trans Am

    Question

    Hmm, just to clarify, i was fairly certain a '99 ls1 came equipped with 19lb/hr injectors, isn't that correct? Assuming my stock f/p is capable of supplying sufficent pressure, would I need to upgrade these injectors anyway for a setup supplying 150hp at the maximum?

    I'm very appreciative of all the info/experiences shared, as I have no experience with this.
    I'm not rich, but I will spare no expense on safety/backup components as necessary before I splurge on a N20 kit, so long as it still comes in significantly cheaper than forced induction. I don't need a 1,200 dollar system, or at least, I hope I don't just for playin' on the street for fun!

    Mrr23, of course I'm very encouraged by those numbers you turned out! Your 400+ dynosheet was on a bone-stock car just sniffing the gas? I would imagine I should have no problem pushing 450+ to the tires with a basic/safe system if that's the case!! Sounds like exactly what I was looking for!

    Where might I be able to determine what my timing is set at? What PID should I be looking at on my scanner to determine this before I install? I have a Predator that I can still use to read data, and I have acess to a scantool at work.

    Will the .563/.563 lift 114duration Comp cam I have installed cause any complications/issues I should be aware of?

    Spark plugs, fuel pressure saftey switch are on the checklist. Anything else?
    Last edited by PushroD; 03-26-2008 at 07:35 PM.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    dark bowling green
    2000 corvette

    98, 01-02 28# injectors
    99-00 26# injectors

    the old 86-92 305 TPI came with 19# injectors.

    to determine what your timing is at, you'll need to make a WOT run and record the advance.

    cam will not cause any issues.

  11. #11
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Excellent info! I'll make a couple runs, & beat her a little and check the max advance on my scanner. Hey, it's for her own good, right?

    Anything under 25* should be acceptable for my application?

    Ah, I stand corrected on the injector flow rate, thanks for the heads up.
    So, mrr23, in your opinion, do you think she'll be ok with the stock 26lb/hr injectors then, assuming I select a dry system?

    I haven't yet decided on system type yet, first and foremost, I'm more concerned about hurting her!

  12. #12
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    dark bowling green
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    Quote Originally Posted by PushroD View Post
    Anything under 25* should be acceptable for my application?
    yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by PushroD View Post
    Ah, I stand corrected on the injector flow rate, thanks for the heads up.
    So, mrr23, in your opinion, do you think she'll be ok with the stock 26lb/hr injectors then, assuming I select a dry system?
    no. if you use a wet system, you'll be fine. i've been 482 rwhp on stock fuel system.

    if you do a dry system, you may need a better fuel pump and larger injectors, because that's where hte nitrous gets the extra fuel from.

  13. #13
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
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    Lightbulb Sorry to be a pest!

    I see, correct me if i'm wrong, as you didn't say, but I assume you're running a wet system on your white car then? It would appear a wet system is the easier way to go, assuming timing is correct, and because of the fact that fuel isn't dependent on the OEM injectors.

    In the event timing is NOT within thresholds as you've specified, would a Timing Twister from MSD be an effective solution, as I really would rather not give up any possible gain when off the bottle..

    Sorry if I seem pesty, I'm learning here, and thanks again for your input!

  14. #14
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Pushrod-

    Seems like mmr23 already has you going in the correct direction here, so I'll just chime in on the timing retard thing.

    Check out HSW's nitrous timing controller. This will allow you to keep your timing cranked when you're not spraying AND automagically adjust your timing to save levels when you are.

    HTH,
    -Eagle

    PS - If you need anything tuned on your car, I'm in your area and could probably help you out. Shoot me a PM if you're interested.

  15. #15
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
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    Thanks Eagle! I just may be interested in your tuning services, My ride was previously dyno tuned by another shop using ls1edit (I think) would that be a problem? Where abouts are you located? I live close to Gurnee, in Lake Co.

    That HSW may be just what I was looking for! At the very least, peice of mind.. I'm leaning to the ZEX wet setup, part#82087. I'd like to do this this summer, assuming my finances allow it! I'm still in the r&d stages for this project! I tend to over engineer&overthink projects on the trans am like this, but after all, it's what I do!

  16. #16
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    I'm west of you, near Woodstock. We're probably 1hr or so away from each other. I can scan your car and see whats been changed from stock and maybe even let you know what you could stand to gain from additional tuning.

    -Eagle

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    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
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    Thumbs up

    Very generous of you, Eagle! Perhaps when the weather warms up, we could arrange somthing? I'll PM you when the time comes!

  18. #18
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Definitely, I'll look forward to hearing from you.

    -Eagle

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PushroD View Post
    I see, correct me if i'm wrong, as you didn't say, but I assume you're running a wet system on your white car then? It would appear a wet system is the easier way to go, assuming timing is correct, and because of the fact that fuel isn't dependent on the OEM injectors.

    In the event timing is NOT within thresholds as you've specified, would a Timing Twister from MSD be an effective solution, as I really would rather not give up any possible gain when off the bottle..

    Sorry if I seem pesty, I'm learning here, and thanks again for your input!
    correct, i run wet on both cars. a timing tuner will work, if you need to retard timing at all.

  20. #20
    Real cars are RWD. PushroD's Avatar
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    Midnight blue metallic
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    Well, I guess it's gonna be awhile, I blew 3rd gear on Sunday! Guess the bottle will have to wait.. Hmmm... this trans wasn't two years old... came from a trans guy that posts on here on a regular basis too! I won't name any names, seeing as how I don't know what the cause was yet.. 'Twas rated to 700hp, and I barely make half that to the tire... Doesn't matter, It's already at the trans shop, and as good as fixed, as I spare no expense on the T/A.
    Last edited by PushroD; 04-03-2008 at 09:40 PM.

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