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Surging sensation in 3rd? HSW 100HP wet

This is a discussion on Surging sensation in 3rd? HSW 100HP wet within the Nitrous forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Heya all- So I took a buddy for a run in the car last night and noticed that with the ...

  1. #1
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Surging sensation in 3rd? HSW 100HP wet

    Heya all-

    So I took a buddy for a run in the car last night and noticed that with the nitrous on the car seems to be surging (almost feels like the contents of the bottle "rolling" inside as a result of the 2-3 shift and entering the feed line differently). It pulls HARD thru first, so surging, then 2nd feels a slight bit weaker than first and 3rd is definitely got a sensation of the system going on and off for about 1 second intervals, but the BMN controller shows the green light lit the entire time. The power loss during surging feels like about 1/2 the overall increase that the system provides.

    A few notes:

    * The bottle is @ the spare tire area of the hatch. The line is actually oriented where the feed line points UPWARDS from the bottle. I'm thinking that might need to be pointing down since I've done a few searches already.
    * Last I checked, the bottle read just below 900psi.
    * I did have the heater on for the run too, but I don't see how that could create the surging I felt.

    Questions:

    * I'm on stock FP and injectors, but I'm only pushing 100HP. I'm told I should be able to run the 150HP on the stock 2002 fuel system. Thoughts?
    * I used TR6 plugs, gapped at .038 - I used the FAQ on this site for that info. Is that a good #?
    * Can the contents of the bottle actually shift forwards and backwards and cause a sensation like this?

    I haven't pulled through fourth gear yet, but I assume that it'll be more of what I experienced in third. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks all!

    -Eagle

  2. #2
    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    feed line must point downward. the siphon tube is located at the bottom of the bottle and angled to the side. the orientation of the siphon tube pick up is in the same direction as the bottle nut.

    throughout the run, the bottle pressure is dropping. with the drop in pressure, the liquid nitrous starts phasing back into a gas. with the siphon tube pointing up, it's now pulling the gas, not hte liquid. this isn't good. you only want it as a gas when it exits the nozzle.

    also, make sure the bottle is as close to a 45* angle as you can get it.
    Last edited by mrr23; 05-04-2007 at 01:00 PM.

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Understood. I'll get that feed line pointed downwards first thing when I see the car next. I'm pretty sure the bottle is @ approximately 45*, but I'll check that as well... Thx bud!

    -Eagle

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    Also get you bottle pressure up, the kit is jetted for 950 psi, anything below this will result in you running rich(er), leaving a good amount of power on the table.

    Matt

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Alright, Matt. I'll get the bottle filled... which is fine, cuz I not only ran it empty today showing off the new tire burning fun the WS6 is putting down with the little red switch ON, but I also managed to lose one of the two nuts and bolts that hold on the WOT switch, allowing it to come loose and get caught up during the next WOT, basically blowing it into tiny little pieces all over the engine bay (YA, I kinda MASH on my gas pedal, what can I say). The bracket is intact, but the switch, its well.... GONE. Looks like I'll be ordering a new WOT switch real soon. Oh, and this time, I'll locktite the tiny little nuts too.

    Other than that, all my Ford buddies are definitely impressed!

    When I got the bottle filled it was just below the 900psi mark on the gauge. Should I hound them to get it all the way up around 950, or where should it read when FULL and fresh from the filling station?

    Thx all!
    -Eagle

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    PS - Confirmed kill on a buddy's 2004 GT (poor guy doesnt have a chance!) and I also found a 07 Vette to dork with on the way to my buds house, but the old man behind the wheel of the vette couldn't hang with the WS6.

    HSW for the win!

    -Eagle

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    Nitrous Tuner LS2Tuner's Avatar
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    Yes your bottle valve was upside down and you pressur is LOW!!!
    The surging was due to the siphone tube being on the top of the bottle.Your A/F was going way rich which caused your loss in power. Didin't you say you had a Predator a while back? If so plug it in and use the data logging feature and see what is going on with all the pids during a bottle pass.
    I keep pressure at atleast 1000 psi myself like I already told you.Usually tune at 1050 that way when costomers have high bottle pressure thay are ok and with lower pressure they are fat on the safe side.

    Fix that bottle and get your pressure up and put your other jets in like you had said you were going to do.....

    Have fun and get some real tires......
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    Senior Member Danger731's Avatar
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    sounds like fun

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    When I got the bottle filled it was just below the 900psi mark on the gauge. Should I hound them to get it all the way up around 950, or where should it read when FULL and fresh from the filling station?

    Thx all!
    -Eagle
    they can't get it to 950 psi. they only fill the bottle to 10 lbs. amount in bottle and temperature controls bottle pressure. this is why you get a bottle heater.

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    I've got a HSW revolution heater. The switch is set at 950psi, should I bump that up? As for the 150HP jets, I was waiting until I had the extra cash to tune it out on a dyno... think its safe to just hit the 150? The 100HP is crazy fast already, I can't imagine what the 150 shot would do on a full bottle... God knows there'd be no going back to the small jets...

    -Eagle

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    i would say yes. bump it to 1000 psi.

    i don't see why you couldn't go to 150. that's where i started at with my car.

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    Now you've gone and put that evil thought in my head.... hehehehehe...

    -Eagle

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    Yes I would set the psi to 1020 and you'll see a big difference.You have to remember that the heater is a delayed elelment. Meaning it takes a min to warm up so that 1020 will keep you around a 1000 on the button.
    Did you tell me you had a Predator a while back......? If so just go into the timing and pull some out and put your 150 jets in.
    If not do you have access to some race gas locally? If so go buy you 5 gallons and mix that in with your pump gas and then you won't have to worry about and detonation problems. It is a nice insurence anyways.Just make sue that it is a NO lead blend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrr23 View Post
    feed line must point downward. the siphon tube is located at the bottom of the bottle and angled to the side. the orientation of the siphon tube pick up is in the same direction as the bottle nut.

    throughout the run, the bottle pressure is dropping. with the drop in pressure, the liquid nitrous starts phasing back into a gas. with the siphon tube pointing up, it's now pulling the gas, not hte liquid. this isn't good. you only want it as a gas when it exits the nozzle.

    also, make sure the bottle is as close to a 45* angle as you can get it.
    Are all siphon tubes pointed the same direction as the bottle nut? I was told to put the label facing up with a harris speedworks 10# bottle. This puts my bottle nut to the side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andy670ho View Post
    Are all siphon tubes pointed the same direction as the bottle nut? I was told to put the label facing up with a harris speedworks 10# bottle. This puts my bottle nut to the side.
    Fark. Matt??? Throw me a bone man! What way should the bottle nut be facing?

    -Eagle

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    Member TwistedSS's Avatar
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    Go with 150 first of all. No reason you can't do so.

    Also yeah, bottle won't siphon with the tube facing the wrong way...also 950 psi would be great.

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    If your running the jetting that came with the kit (based at 950 psi) I wouldn’t run the bottle pressure higher then 950. You'll lean the A/F out a bit at 1000+ psi, so you'll pick up more HP, but you'll also be running a lean(er) A/F.

    Bottle label should face up, so in Eagle's case the bottle nut will face down. In andy670ho's case his label will face up with the bottle nut facing the side, which is normal for his kit as the siphon tube was positioned differently on the early bottles. No performance gain or loss between the two, just make sure your bottle is positioned correctly for optimum performance. The user manual has pictures in it, and any other questions support can help with:

    http://www.harrisspeedworks.com/support/

    Matt

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Thanks Matt!

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    Thanks Matt!

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