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Solenoid failure: Big Risk?

This is a discussion on Solenoid failure: Big Risk? within the Nitrous forums, part of the LSx Technical Help Section category; Hey LS1ers- After additional research about putting a wet kit on my car, I'm still searching for the weak point ...

  1. #1
    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Exclamation Solenoid failure: Big Risk?

    Hey LS1ers-

    After additional research about putting a wet kit on my car, I'm still searching for the weak point in the system. I'm currently looking at HSW for my kit, and plan to get a window switch and heater to complete the system and make it as safe as possible.

    My next question is, do solenoids fail very often? I'm guessing there are just a couple manufacturers of these parts in the market and that most are probably just rebranded for which ever kit they come with.

    Who makes the best solenoids out there for wet kit installs?

    Maybe solenoid failures are a thing of the past and not much to be concerned with, but I'm just CYA if you know what I mean.

    Tax return check came in today... So I'm going to be itching to make a purchase soon!

    -Eagle

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    no, they do not fail often. failures aren't a thing of the past, they just don't happen that often. you'll hear the go dry because if the fuel solenoid doesn't open, then you go boom. others will tell you go wet because you can tune the a/f ratio via jetting and not have to worry about the MAF adding the fuel if it doesn't read the incoming nitrous correctly.

    i'll tell you this, in both instances if you have a solenoid failure, you will have problems. wet kit fuel solenoid not open nitrous doesn't close/gets trash in it. dry kit nitrous solenoid doesn't open/trash gets in it. there's a risk no matter what you do.

    minaly, i do wet, so i don't have to go into the PCM for tuning, if the MAF can't read it all properly. i have both on my car.

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Basically its a risk and I got to live with it. Gotcha.

    Any brand solenoid better than the rest?

  4. #4
    Fuel solenoids very rarely fail unless exposed to alcohol and don't have the proper plunger for it. The fuel solenoids are a little overkill for what they are being used for. Some of the larger solenoids you see NOS Cheater for example can open up to over 300psi. So they really don't work very hard opening at 40 psi so even if the coils are a little on the weak side they will still open. And since the coils are such low amp they don't generate the heat that a nitrous coil does which can damage the coil.

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    You can "lessen" the chance of solenoid failure a few ways. One is to make sure all the electrical connections (including the grounds) are good. We supply heat shrink connections in our kits so you don't have to worry about mosture. Another way is to not active the system if bottle pressure is too high. For instance our jetting is based off of 950 psi, there is no reason to active the system with 1000+ bottle pressure. In doing so you run a higher risk of the solenoid failing to close, and on a wet kit you will be leaning out the A/F raitio in doing so. On a properly set up & utilized nitrous system solenoid failure is pretty low.

    Matt

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    Just another Joe Eagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt@HSW View Post
    You can "lessen" the chance of solenoid failure a few ways. One is to make sure all the electrical connections (including the grounds) are good. We supply heat shrink connections in our kits so you don't have to worry about mosture. Another way is to not active the system if bottle pressure is too high. For instance our jetting is based off of 950 psi, there is no reason to active the system with 1000+ bottle pressure. In doing so you run a higher risk of the solenoid failing to close, and on a wet kit you will be leaning out the A/F raitio in doing so. On a properly set up & utilized nitrous system solenoid failure is pretty low.

    Matt
    Pretty low, but also pretty fatal to your engine... hrmm...

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    Sure, but remember when ever you modify your engine you run a risk of something happening, doesnít matter if you go with a cam (and spin your cam bearings on a bad grind or pop a valve spring and drop a valve or have a bad tune) or if you go FI, you still run a risk. On a properly set up install it's a pretty low risk of solenoid failure.

    Matt


    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    Pretty low, but also pretty fatal to your engine... hrmm...

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    I'm just stalling myself until I can get home and at least tell the wife that I'm buying the kit Matt, STOP TORMENTING ME!!!

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    Solenoids fail, it happens, so I went to pneumatic noids.
    Glad I did.

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    Senior Member mrr23's Avatar
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    that was an expensive route. i saw those at PRI back in 2005. nice set up. just costly for the average person.

  11. #11
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    I have been playing with kits for 15 years and only had 2 solenoid issues. They were both with NOS brand nitrous solenoids.Both were a early plunger design that has been redesigned since.
    NEVER had a fuel solenoid failure!!!!

    DON'T USE TEFLON TAPE ON THE FITTINGS....... SO MANY CUSTOMERS BRING ME THERE CARS WITH SELF INSTALLED KITS AND 70% OF THEM HAVE TAPE ON FITTINGS.
    USE PERMATEX PST TEFLON PASTE AND IT ONLY TAKE A LITTLE BIT.


    Have someone do a good wiring job with relays. And wire the solenoids so they are switching with the ground side NOT the power side.

    NX is bottom feed solenoids are what we are using on everything now. They come with a lifetime warr. so they feel pretty confident about them.
    Don't be afraid of the bottle!!! Be afraid of your tune!!!

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    I have always been told that the NX solenoids are some of the best out there. You can also see a difference in size between the NX and other brand solenoids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce1 View Post
    Solenoids fail, it happens, so I went to pneumatic noids.
    Glad I did.
    any extra info on pneumatic solenoids ?
    info links, prices, where to buy ?
    Eugenio_SS
    almost stock triple-black 2000 SS convertible with 17x11s on all 4 w/ 315s at the track or on the street with 18x10.5s on all 4 w/ 315s: (1), (2)

  14. #14
    http://www.combo-flo.com/

    Just keep in mind they can not be pulsed so no progressive controlers

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    Crazy Canuck ! Eugenio_SS's Avatar
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    doh !!!
    NX-Maximizer
    there goes my bubble... it's burst.

  16. #16
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    They are down sides to those solenoids also! Besides the $.
    What happens when your low on C02 pressure.
    If electric solenoids were that big of a problem you think ALL the PSCA cars and other mountain motor cars would still be using them on there $50,000 motors.
    Other than 1 sponsered car I have NEVER seen ANY racers use them. And my friend runs a ex prostock chassis on 3 stages that amounts to MANY electric solenoids for the finale 600 shot. It goes mid 6's and they ALL run good old electric solenoids.

  17. #17
    You can run them off of the nitrous pressure so running out of co2 wouldn't be an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LS2Tuner View Post
    They are down sides to those solenoids also! Besides the $.
    What happens when your low on C02 pressure.
    If electric solenoids were that big of a problem you think ALL the PSCA cars and other mountain motor cars would still be using them on there $50,000 motors.
    Other than 1 sponsered car I have NEVER seen ANY racers use them. And my friend runs a ex prostock chassis on 3 stages that amounts to MANY electric solenoids for the finale 600 shot. It goes mid 6's and they ALL run good old electric solenoids.
    We all have our opinions, and it appears that you and your buddies have yours, and thats fine. I suggest that you keep using yours. You are right, electric solenoids are not that big of a problem, as long as they do not fail, last year mine did. To protect my motor, I changed over.

    The down side to electric is that they use a draw a lot amps, and they can fail, meaning that your fuel solenoid may fail to activate, and stay closed, but your NOS solenoid may work fine, this will cause a lean condition, boom, a meltdown. Since the NOS and the fuel are together in one single action solenoid, this cannot happen on the Combo-Flo. It is impossible. But in any system, you must have clean debris free lines that will not clog the jets exit diameter!

    If you run low on C02, the system will just not activate. Your motor will be spared. But, you may have figured this out already.

    Whatever works for you is fine, and I hope you have good luck on the soleniods, I did for a long time. Just keep up the Maintenance! and Have fun, but just be prepared...
    $$$$$...??.

    Bruce

    Last edited by bruce1; 04-24-2007 at 09:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by srsnow View Post
    You can run them off of the nitrous pressure so running out of co2 wouldn't be an issue.
    O'h I guess thats how your is plumbed. The car we saw at Vegas was run off of C02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruce1 View Post
    Solenoids fail, it happens, so I went to pneumatic noids.
    Glad I did.
    what do you use to get them to open?another tank with compressed air,and where did you get them

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