22-23 degrees and 125 shot

**RealLiveMD** · 05-14-2009, 05:14 PM

I want to spray a 125 wet shot. (kit sitting in garage) My timing is at 22-23 degrees WOT. I'm using a standalone with 110 I guess. my a/f ratio is 13.4/1 until 5100 then dives to about 12.8/1. This sounds like I should be able to spray a 125 shot without pulling timing. The car makes 400NA rwhp. What do you think?

**bills98ta** · 05-15-2009, 02:12 AM

Looks Safe !!!

**mrr23** · 05-15-2009, 04:17 AM

i normally run 25* timing.

**Turrry** · 05-15-2009, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by RealLiveMD

I want to spray a 125 wet shot. (kit sitting in garage) My timing is at 22-23 degrees WOT. I'm using a standalone with 110 I guess. my a/f ratio is 13.4/1 until 5100 then dives to about 12.8/1. This sounds like I should be able to spray a 125 shot without pulling timing. The car makes 400NA rwhp. What do you think?

13.4 A/F?! isn't that a bit lean for a nitrous application?

**Firebirdjones** · 05-15-2009, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Turrry

13.4 A/F?! isn't that a bit lean for a nitrous application?

It's a bit lean for even a NA setup. I would rather see that 12.8 AFR accross the board,,,not just up top. If anything I like them a little richer toward the bottom of the rpm range where knock is more common.

**RealLiveMD** · 05-15-2009, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

It's a bit lean for even a NA setup. I would rather see that 12.8 AFR accross the board,,,not just up top. If anything I like them a little richer toward the bottom of the rpm range where knock is more common.

I don't have any knock. I will gladly take it back to the tuner though. I was planning on taking it back before actually spraying. On the other hand, I've beat the hell out of it for 3 years without a hiccup. I'm assuming the 110 or c16 in my standalone should drop the a/f ratio to an acceptable range for nitrous.

**nitrusmike** · 05-18-2009, 10:38 AM

better to start out "fat" and work backwards toward lean, always pull timing for the bottle 2 degrees for evry 50hp check the plugs for "peppering" and it will last for many miles

**mrr23** · 05-18-2009, 04:42 PM

2* per 50hp is too much retard. maybe above 200, but you can go with stock timing table on a 150 shot.

**RealLiveMD** · 05-18-2009, 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by nitrusmike

better to start out "fat" and work backwards toward lean, always pull timing for the bottle 2 degrees for evry 50hp check the plugs for "peppering" and it will last for many miles

If the stock timing table goes to 26 and I'm already at 23, why would I pull timing? Most people say stock timing is good for at least 100 shot, so, my measly 125 should be fine. Oh, yeah, I plan on being fat with the c16 or 110 in the standalone.

**Firebirdjones** · 05-18-2009, 06:22 PM

A 2002 F-body should have had a stock timing table of about 19 degrees. If you have 23 degrees in there, then I believe it's been tinkered with already.

I'm pretty sure it was the earlier years (98-00) that had a higher timing table from the factory, something like 28 degrees???

Mrr23 would know for sure.

**mrr23** · 05-18-2009, 06:23 PM

depending on where you are at in your timing table, you can be 27*-28*. most stock displacement LS1 motors typically are in the .52 - .60 cylinder airmass rows. here's screenshot of as stock 2002 high octane timing table. so, just make sure your timing is in the 22*-23* range there

**Firebirdjones** · 05-18-2009, 06:31 PM

I was hoping you would post up a timing table

**mrr23** · 05-18-2009, 06:36 PM

you were one minute ahead of me.

**Firebirdjones** · 05-18-2009, 06:37 PM

It's funny you mentioned the air mass rows Mrr23. My 2002 SS runs in the .72 air mass row consistently at WOT, with stock cam and all. Which is where I got the 19 degrees from,,,I had to bump that entire section up.

Yet that 2000 I picked up in your neck of the woods with that Vinci cam, and now an LS6 intake and such,,,and it only runs in the .52 airmass area at WOT. Strange to me.

**RealLiveMD** · 05-18-2009, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by mrr23

depending on where you are at in your timing table, you can be 27*-28*. most stock displacement LS1 motors typically are in the .52 - .60 cylinder airmass rows. here's screenshot of as stock 2002 high octane timing table. so, just make sure your timing is in the 22*-23* range there

Ok now I'm all confused again. I had a friend plug in hptuners and I did WOT runs. while running, the computer read 22-23. I assumed that meant that my timing was at 22-23 at WOT which is where I'll be when spraying.

**mrr23** · 05-18-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Firebirdjones

It's funny you mentioned the air mass rows Mrr23. My 2002 SS runs in the .72 air mass row consistently at WOT, with stock cam and all. Which is where I got the 19 degrees from,,,I had to bump that entire section up.

Yet that 2000 I picked up in your neck of the woods with that Vinci cam, and now an LS6 intake and such,,,and it only runs in the .52 airmass area at WOT. Strange to me.

airflow restrictions will dictate how much cylinder airmass will be used. example, if the 2000 still has the LS1 intake, it will pull in less air than the 2002 with the LS6 intake.

Originally Posted by RealLiveMD

Ok now I'm all confused again. I had a friend plug in hptuners and I did WOT runs. while running, the computer read 22-23. I assumed that meant that my timing was at 22-23 at WOT which is where I'll be when spraying.

so long as you logged it and saw the timing, that's where you'll be. you'll want to check again when you do run the nitrous as it changes the cylinder airmass some. with nitrous, the motor rpms quicker and can result in higher cylinder airmass which will put you lower in the timing table.

**Firebirdjones** · 05-18-2009, 06:45 PM

Originally Posted by RealLiveMD

Ok now I'm all confused again. I had a friend plug in hptuners and I did WOT runs. while running, the computer read 22-23. I assumed that meant that my timing was at 22-23 at WOT which is where I'll be when spraying.

Ya like Mrr23 said, it depends on what cylinder airmass row the engine is running in at WOT. You would have to log while watching the entire timing table and go on a full throttle run. Then tinker in and around that area.

If you were showing 22-23 degrees on the main screen,,,then the car was probably running in the .72 to .76 cyl airmass area at WOT....

**Firebirdjones** · 05-18-2009, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by mrr23

airflow restrictions will dictate how much cylinder airmass will be used. example, if the 2000 still has the LS1 intake, it will pull in less air than the 2002 with the LS6 intake.

Ya that's along the lines I was thinking. I recently installed an LS6 intake, and with that baby cam I would think the cylinder airmass would have at least matched or went even higher than my stock 2002.
I'm guessing it must be the difference in the cylinder heads,,,853's verses the 241's???