Rebuild LS1, or drop in LS2/LS6?

**ScrapMaker** · 03-18-2007, 08:02 AM

This last oil change, metal pieces were found on my magnetic drain plug. My LS1 has 133k on it. It feels strong, but I know it's going to blow soon.

Should I rebuild the motor, or just drop in an LS2 or LS6? I have seen several offers of LS2s/LS6s for about $2500 with everything I would need. I think there was one on this site for $2500 with only 15k on the motor...

Does the LS2/LS6 fit right in place of the LS1? Can I use my stock computer, and just use LS1edit to modify the programming?

I really want the 400hp, and I want decent gas mileage... That's why I'm weary of building up an LS1 to achieve the same results... To get an LS1 up to 400hp, wouldn't I be looking at gas mileage in the lower teens?

**9t8z28** · 03-18-2007, 11:45 AM

What kind of metal pieces?

**ScrapMaker** · 03-18-2007, 01:21 PM

It looked like part of a bearing.. possibly the outer race... I'm no expert when it comes to that, but it was a little smaller than the fingernail on my pinky, and slightly thinner as well...

**danziger** · 03-18-2007, 01:31 PM

Build your LS1 or trade it as a core on a forged 347, 383, 408 etc...
There is no advantage other than PCV and block windage going to a LS6 and the LS2 will reqiure some slight changes (like knock sensors) to make it work.
My LSx 383 still gets around 24mpg highway, but I don't have a good average for city driving. I tend to drop the hammer a lot from stops...

**ScrapMaker** · 03-18-2007, 06:02 PM

So it would be smarter to have mine rebuilt, get some better heads, and an LS6 intake perhaps?

I was under the impression that the LS2/LS6 would fit right in... I heard you could even use the stock computer... but that's why I'm asking here!

**LS2Tuner** · 03-18-2007, 07:37 PM

THERE IS NO SUBSITUTE FOR DISPLACEMENT!!!

My biggest ? is whats your budget....?

**danziger** · 03-19-2007, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

So it would be smarter to have mine rebuilt, get some better heads, and an LS6 intake perhaps?

I was under the impression that the LS2/LS6 would fit right in... I heard you could even use the stock computer... but that's why I'm asking here!

The LS6 would drop right in, but that is a lot of money for what amounts to a VERY mild heads/cam pagage. Like I said, the LS2 would take a little work...

For the price of either of those engines, you could do a nice little forged 347 rebuild and maybe find some used budget heads.

**ScrapMaker** · 03-20-2007, 11:26 AM

My budget is roughly $5,000. That is what a local dealer quoted me for a brand-new LS1, installed w/ warranty.

When you guys say a build up 347, are you referring to the stock LS1 block, or another one? I thought the LS1 was 346... just making sure.

You say you can get 24mpg with your 383? Is that with a 6spd? I have the automatic, and I get about 22 at "highway speeds." (90-100)

Overall, this is a daily-driver, so I can't have anything totally insane... I always thought to get an LS1 up to 400-450hp, would just destroy my gas mileage...

So what I'm looking for is hopefully some sort of swap, so I can have this thing all built up, and just drop it in, and hopefully sell off the old one...

I'd also like to retain the computer, and fuel injection...

**LS2Tuner** · 03-20-2007, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

My budget is roughly $5,000. That is what a local dealer quoted me for a brand-new LS1, installed w/ warranty.

When you guys say a build up 347, are you referring to the stock LS1 block, or another one? I thought the LS1 was 346... just making sure.

You say you can get 24mpg with your 383? Is that with a 6spd? I have the automatic, and I get about 22 at "highway speeds." (90-100)

Overall, this is a daily-driver, so I can't have anything totally insane... I always thought to get an LS1 up to 400-450hp, would just destroy my gas mileage...

So what I'm looking for is hopefully some sort of swap, so I can have this thing all built up, and just drop it in, and hopefully sell off the old one...

I'd also like to retain the computer, and fuel injection...

For 5 grand you could rebuild your heads and build a 454 short block which would be a TQ monster and as you saved more money you could add a FAST intake the L92 heads and so on.
I would go to your local dragstrip and talk to the regulars....The people that are in the points and race every weekend and see what machine shop the majority uses. Go and talk to them and tell them your interested in building a stroker for your street car with the NEW LSX block from Chevy.

**danziger** · 03-20-2007, 02:05 PM

I'm not trying to be an ass, but a 420+ inch LSx engine isn't going to be anywhere near $5K. Trust me, I looked everywhere before I got my 383. An assembled 347 short-block is $2500, 402/408s are at least $3800 and anything above that cubic-inch level that is going to be minimum $6000 for a short-block.

OK, I found some CHEAP prices, but still...
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=686&catid=20

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=693&catid=20

This is more the norm for LSx short-block prices...
http://www.motorsporttech.com/fbody_engine02.asp

**danziger** · 03-20-2007, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by ScrapMaker

My budget is roughly $5,000. That is what a local dealer quoted me for a brand-new LS1, installed w/ warranty.
You can do much better for $5K...
When you guys say a build up 347, are you referring to the stock LS1 block, or another one? I thought the LS1 was 346... just making sure.
347s are usually stock LS1 blocks with a slight hone/bore, forged pistons and possibly better rods and crank...
You say you can get 24mpg with your 383? Is that with a 6spd? I have the automatic, and I get about 22 at "highway speeds." (90-100)
Yes, that is with a 6-spd, so your mpg won't be as good, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to stay around 20mpg if you keep your foot out of it...

Overall, this is a daily-driver, so I can't have anything totally insane... I always thought to get an LS1 up to 400-450hp, would just destroy my gas mileage...
A mild heads/cam on a stock LS1 can easily top 400rwhp and remain docile with decent mpg...

So what I'm looking for is hopefully some sort of swap, so I can have this thing all built up, and just drop it in, and hopefully sell off the old one...
You could have LME, W to W or just about anyone build the engine from pan to intake for you to drop in. Depending on your mechanical skill, you could do some yourself and save cash...

I'd also like to retain the computer, and fuel injection...
Not an issue unless you go bigger cubes and maybe upgrade the injectors/pump...

I hope this helps...

**ScrapMaker** · 03-21-2007, 06:17 AM

Originally Posted by danziger

I hope this helps...

Thanks! How far you can you go with the stock injectors? But even if I had to swap them out, couldn't I just use LS1edit to compensate?

**Firebirdjones** · 03-21-2007, 06:44 AM

I was always told and under the impression that an LS2 won't simply drop into an Fbody without the LS2 computer to go with it. Since the LS2 uses a different reluctor wheel with more or less tooth count for the crank trigger than an LS1 does.
Is there now a simple wire harness or crank trigger change that cures this problem or is this a myth?

**ScrapMaker** · 03-21-2007, 06:48 AM

It sounds like it's not worth the effort to put in an LS2, and to just build up the LS1 with better heads/exhaust/cam

**Firebirdjones** · 03-21-2007, 07:17 AM

Well when I asked that question I was referring to the aluminum LS2 motors in the GTO's and such, but from what I understand the cast iron LS2 truck blocks use the same reluctor wheel as the aluminum LS1 blocks,,,,so starting with a cast iron truck would at least solve that, that and low cost plus the ability to bore more than once makes the cast iron block very attractive to me. But of course if building a motor from scratch with all the aftermarket cranks and rotating assemblies available you can mix and match pretty much anything you want so the reluctor wheel isn't an issue in that case, just a matter of $$$$$ How is that for confusing,,,lol. Larry.

PS,,,I was interested in that LS2 GTO engine forsale on here too a while back with 15,000 miles on it for the very same reason you are thinking, until I found out about the reluctor wheel/crank trigger difference requiring a different computer,,,,,No thanks.. And I haven't heard otherwise as of yet, so I posted that question again, also for your benefit.

**LS2Tuner** · 03-21-2007, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by danziger

I'm not trying to be an ass, but a 420+ inch LSx engine isn't going to be anywhere near $5K. Trust me, I looked everywhere before I got my 383. An assembled 347 short-block is $2500, 402/408s are at least $3800 and anything above that cubic-inch level that is going to be minimum $6000 for a short-block.

OK, I found some CHEAP prices, but still...
http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=686&catid=20

http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/item...d=693&catid=20

This is more the norm for LSx short-block prices...
http://www.motorsporttech.com/fbody_engine02.asp

Sorry I guess I should of stated I could build myself a 450 ci + short block for $5000. With the new LSX block being well under $2000 Sorry to say I can buy a rotating asssembly for under $3000. I can put together my own mtr. I'm not paying someones crazy labor rate to assemb. a short blk.

**ED SKELLY** · 03-21-2007, 08:30 AM

Had the same problem with 99 TA at 187K. Purchased an LS6 service engine, P/N 12498399, 405 HP, from Superior Chevrolet in Merriam, KS.. Cost was $4,195.00, no core. Best price I've seen for a new LS6 long block. Superior is having a promotional going on an I believe they have (2) more.

http://www.superchevyperformance.com...p/12498399.htm

**secondgearscratch** · 03-21-2007, 08:39 AM

whoever said trading up for a forged 347 +1 on that and stroke it!!!!!!!! do it yourself if you have the time and save some money. maybe go with a lunati 4 inch crank and get your block clearanced and cleaned and get the stroker kit. save money wherever you can. hell if you find an inexpensive machine shop have them port your heads. hand port them if youre brave....if you have the money to throw around by doing it yourself just get the most cubes you can with minimal machining costs.
actually on second thought do whatever feels good and keep us updated (pics!)
good luck

**Firebirdjones** · 03-21-2007, 09:38 AM

Eeeeew,,I wouldn't skimp on the machine work. Finding an inexpensive machine shop usually means low quality work and more problems down the road. I know most of these cars get ran hard and put away wet, so although more money would be spent for a good quality machine shop, it would save you money in the long run to not have to do it twice.
I have seen some crappy machine work, some shops want to get it in and out quick and don't take much pride in what they do. Check around your area and go with a shop that has a good reputation, regardless of cost. You can save money in other areas but don't skimp on machine work. Larry.

**Firebirdjones** · 03-21-2007, 09:41 AM

On second thought,,,if you don't trust a local machinest,,,that LS6 crate motor that Ed mentioned is pretty damn tempting. $4,000 and a warranty to boot? Before you stick it in the car,,,with the money you have left over slap a camshaft in it along with any needed related parts and it would be a fun daily driver with plenty of power, and alot less headache. Larry.