Recoil question for the pistol shooters out there

[grandkodiak]

I own a Glock 31C in .357sig and I've fired all varieties of semiautos in 9mmL, 40sw and 45acp... but I want to venture into the big bore revolver world...

Now, recoil has not seemed to be an issue for me in the least bit with what I've shot... I can tell the difference between the different rounds don't get me wrong, but none of them honestly are anywhere near painful or seem dangerous or uncontrollable. I could shoot any of them all day one handed and never feel like I'd be in danger or dropping the weapon or hurting my wrist from a snap back. But none of these rounds really break 600 ft-lbs, and being semiauto some of the recoil is obvious taken up working the slide.

Now, I've never shot a revolver, and the 357 mag is just a smidge above the 357 sig I shoot all day on paper, so I want to jump right in and go for the 44mag and work up to 454casull, 460sw then 500sw... but I have some apprehension of the last 3 mentioned.

I have seen a horde of videos that show people who seem to have a pretty good stance and hold on the weapon, damn near almost smack themselves in the face shooting these rounds.... not to mention pop thier wrists or drop the weapon. are these rounds THAT much more punishing then the semiauto calibers I've shot? or does it have to do with the revolver form itself? or are these just on the net because they are just such shitty shooters that its funny to post the vids?

like on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a 9mm, i'd say the 40, 45 and 357 are almost all on 2-3... but the 454-500 look like 8-10's! how do the really rate? i see that the 44 mag is near a 1000ft-lbs, and the 454, 460 and 500 can range from 1400-3000 ft-lbs!!

[shadegray]

I have the mag and have shot both. The hot mags are way above the sig, about twice as powerful. There are 1000+ ft lb loadings for the mag. The .44's get over 1500 ft lbs. But it's not just the cartridge that affects recoil. The .500 actually isn't so bad in the x frame. People can shoot it in one hand. Weight and porting make a big difference.

[nitrox28]

The largest caliber I've owned was a .44mag and I could easily shoot it with one hand even with it's 8" barrel. I shot my friends .45-70 TC with a lightweight barrel a few times and let me tell you THAT was an attention getter!!! Ever shoot a .12ga shotgun with 3 1/2" shells with one hand? It pretty much sucks!

[dock]

I fired a coworker's snub nosed .454 Casull and the recoil was unlike anything I experienced. I got to where I was over compensating and sent a couple of rounds right into the dirt.

[SexOnWheels]

The largest caliber I've owned was a .44mag and I could easily shoot it with one hand even with it's 8" barrel. I shot my friends .45-70 TC with a lightweight barrel a few times and let me tell you THAT was an attention getter!!! Ever shoot a .12ga shotgun with 3 1/2" shells with one hand? It pretty much sucks!

Especially if it is a pistol grip.

[ChevellRCR]

They are all great calibers but I prefer the 44 and the 460 the most. The 44 has so many differnent load choices. You can start with 44 special and work your way up to 300 and 350gn nuclear loads. One thing I like about the 460 is the fact that you can use 45 Colt and .454 Casull loads for a little variety. As far as recoil goes that will differ from gun to gun based on grip, load, barrel length, and weight of the gun itself. If you go for a 44 mag I would look at one of the Dan Wesson revolvers. They are considered one of the worlds most accurate revolvers and are used in long range silhouette shooting. Another great advantage they have is the fact that you can change barrel legnths in about a min. You could have a 4" barrel for camping and concealment and the 6, 8, or 10" for target or hunting. Sorry this is so long but I hope it helps with your decision.

Here is a link for the newest Dan Wesson offering.

http://www.cz-usa.com/product_detail.php?id=79

[Camaro2fast4u]

i'm not recoil sensitive at all. Stupidly, i sold my S&W 340PD, a 12oz .357 magnum. It was like catching a brick thrown out of an airplane. not as bad on me as a .458 Lott though. My Glock 29 with full power Buffalo Bore loads is a handful.

[00\/\/S6]

Ive got a 44 mag super redhawk w/ the 7.5 in barrel. This gun is perfect. I do ALL my own reloading for it. Ive got some loads that a 10 yr old could shoot (flat nosed all lead 240 grn) shooting just shy of 1000 fps. Very little recoil. Then ive got some deer loads.....300 grain.......w/ a max load shooting in the ballpark of 1300-1400 fps. Little more recoil, but feels like a mans gun. Then ive got some180 grainers loaded up to a max load, shooting i think close to 1600 fps. Lots of recoil. This caliber .44, has sooooo many options when loading. I this it is the most versitle pistol out there. You want to see a mule? check out this S&W 500. I took this vid of my buddy shooting it when we went to the range. He only shot it once lol
http://media.putfile.com/smith-and-wesson

[grandkodiak]

Yea I really want to get the 500sw, I have one with a blank primer minus the powder on my keychain but the options the 460 offers is where i'm goin first.

well, i got back to the range today, and i tried out the 44mag in a longer barrel smith. it is very different then 357/40/45 semis thats for sure. and i have to tell you, i was shooting 4" groups at 25 yards for my first box like the thing was made for me. but the wood checkered grip reallly started bothering me, and the skin between my thumb and pointer that wraps around the back under the hammer REALLY started to hurt and my second box opened up to almost 10" so i took it back to 15 yards. i started to get a blister so and i soon began to hate the grip... LOVE the round though... definatly a heavy pistol revolver fan. the guy let me hold one of the customer 460's that he was working on that had a tactical rubber grip, fit me MUCH better, and didnt rub where i was getting the blister at all.... i guess my hands just cant do the wood smooth grips liek the cowboy guns of yesteryear. i will definatly be picking up the 460 though, the 44 mag was more then manigible as far as recoil, and double tapping was more then possible, rapid fire could get off 2 per second and still hit within 10" at 15 yards, more then enough for self defense purposes (heh any excuse here to own a revolver with the same muzzle energy as a .308 winchester, work with me here people!)

and considering the 45 colt is LESS then what i was shooting today, throw ontop of that a grip that wont eat my skin off and a compensator, i think i could shoot the 460 all day in 45 then pop over to 454 or 460 for some thrill times.

[00\/\/S6]

im sure no matter what you end up going with, you'll have fun. The guns I have, I love, but im always wantimg more. Can you get CCW permits in NJ?

[91Z28]

Yea I really want to get the 500sw, I have one with a blank primer minus the powder on my keychain but the options the 460 offers is where i'm goin first.

well, i got back to the range today, and i tried out the 44mag in a longer barrel smith. it is very different then 357/40/45 semis thats for sure. and i have to tell you, i was shooting 4" groups at 25 yards for my first box like the thing was made for me. but the wood checkered grip reallly started bothering me, and the skin between my thumb and pointer that wraps around the back under the hammer REALLY started to hurt and my second box opened up to almost 10" so i took it back to 15 yards. i started to get a blister so and i soon began to hate the grip... LOVE the round though... definatly a heavy pistol revolver fan. the guy let me hold one of the customer 460's that he was working on that had a tactical rubber grip, fit me MUCH better, and didnt rub where i was getting the blister at all.... i guess my hands just cant do the wood smooth grips liek the cowboy guns of yesteryear. i will definatly be picking up the 460 though, the 44 mag was more then manigible as far as recoil, and double tapping was more then possible, rapid fire could get off 2 per second and still hit within 10" at 15 yards, more then enough for self defense purposes (heh any excuse here to own a revolver with the same muzzle energy as a .308 winchester, work with me here people!)

and considering the 45 colt is LESS then what i was shooting today, throw ontop of that a grip that wont eat my skin off and a compensator, i think i could shoot the 460 all day in 45 then pop over to 454 or 460 for some thrill times.

Molded rubber really is great for magnums, both of my .44s have them. Around here everyone seems to prefer wood but I think they're doing it just for looks. I just don't see how you can grip wood as well as molded rubber.

[jad628]

I own a Glock 31C in .357sig and I've fired all varieties of semiautos in 9mmL, 40sw and 45acp... but I want to venture into the big bore revolver world...

Now, recoil has not seemed to be an issue for me in the least bit with what I've shot... I can tell the difference between the different rounds don't get me wrong, but none of them honestly are anywhere near painful or seem dangerous or uncontrollable. I could shoot any of them all day one handed and never feel like I'd be in danger or dropping the weapon or hurting my wrist from a snap back. But none of these rounds really break 600 ft-lbs, and being semiauto some of the recoil is obvious taken up working the slide.

Now, I've never shot a revolver, and the 357 mag is just a smidge above the 357 sig I shoot all day on paper, so I want to jump right in and go for the 44mag and work up to 454casull, 460sw then 500sw... but I have some apprehension of the last 3 mentioned.

I have seen a horde of videos that show people who seem to have a pretty good stance and hold on the weapon, damn near almost smack themselves in the face shooting these rounds.... not to mention pop thier wrists or drop the weapon. are these rounds THAT much more punishing then the semiauto calibers I've shot? or does it have to do with the revolver form itself? or are these just on the net because they are just such shitty shooters that its funny to post the vids?

like on a scale of 1-10 with 1 being a 9mm, i'd say the 40, 45 and 357 are almost all on 2-3... but the 454-500 look like 8-10's! how do the really rate? i see that the 44 mag is near a 1000ft-lbs, and the 454, 460 and 500 can range from 1400-3000 ft-lbs!!

Very few handguns are the recoil beasts that stories would have you believe.

The adoption of the .454 was probably when the limit of the average shooter was exceeded. The single action design (original .454 Casull) has an inherent stock that allows the gun to rotate upward in the hand during recoil. Originally, since you had to cock it with your thumb, this design was useful to allow faster shooting, but with high energy modern loads this causes too much muzzle "flip". The Bisley grip modification was much more advantageous for a comfortable grip where the stock does not rotate.

Most modern revolvers over .44 Mag are ported, very heavy, have recoil absorbing grips (read rubber), or a combination of these. The use of a P.A.S.T. type shooting glove is also common. With these improvements, guns of say S&W 29 (N-frame) series size can be shot for long sessions with relatively no pain. Rested positions will provide the most soreness, off-hand the least.

Grip position is relative to the weapon and most automatics have a line of recoil closer to the plane of the outstretched arm. Revolvers tend to be somewhat higher (an inch or so). This creates dynamics of leverage. And automatics USUALLY have less felt recoil becuase of the action cycling and using some energy.

Revolvers will tend to have more perceived recoil because of these factors, and perceived is what matters. It is what makes you flinch. Weaver or blade stance is my preference because it is taught in LEO training for weapons retention purposes, therefore I stick with it. IPC stance doesn't really appeal to me.


My opinion of proper stance, grip, is to hold the weapon firmly but not so hard as to cause muscle fatigue. the support hand should have its fingers alternate over the primary hands fingers during two-handed shooting. I do NOT care for placing the weak hand's forefinger on the trigger guard front. This will cause you to pull rounds if you are not consistent with pressure. Also, I find that the pressure applied by the pinky is critical to good groups. Once again, I attribute that to leverage.
Knees should NOT be locked, Your spine should be straight. Don't LEAN into the shot, as this will cause you to shoot low. Breathing is critical. Only practice will perfect that. Needless to say, inhaling or exhaling during the trigger release will not be good for accuracy. Use the PAD of the trigger finger to contact the trigger. Too much or too little finger will cause lateral inconsistency in the round's impact.

I say all this because I feel good marksmanship is key to successful use of large caliber weapons. A lot of people give up shooting them because they can't hit well with them and automatically think that has to do with the power of the weapon. In most cases, it has to do with poor execution.

My recommendation of large caliber handguns is to use a double action revolver in .44 magnum. The ammo is readily available and much cheaper than the larger. more custom, stuff. The use of .44 special ammo is always an option (and probably a good choice for home defense). A .454 can do this as well (with .45 LC), but I don't think they like to say it. I have a Smith 29, 8 3/8 with finger grooved wood grips and an action job, plus a Ruger Redhawk, 5 1/2 with Herrett wood finger groove grips and an action job. I handload my own ammo. The Redhawk is capable of handling very high powered hand loads, but I stick with standard (max) pressure with the N frame. I also have a Marlin .44 lever action and I find the ammo interchangeability an asset for hunting situations (but I no longer hunt). If I would be under-gunned with a .44 Mag for a specific animal, I would rather carry a rifle than a bigger/more-powerful handgun. I had a buddy who put a Keith 240 gr hardcast SWC with a max load of 2400 powder completely through a three hundred pound boar with a Model 29. The round hit near the snout and protruded out of the hind end near the boar's tail. Instant stop. That kind of performance over twenty years ago!!! Now with the option of 300 grain plus bullets, the performance of .44 Mag loads is even greater.

It's enough for about anything, and CAN be adapted to by most competent shooters. For me, that says .44 Magnum. which I put as an eight on your recoil scale.

Hope this was helpful.

[grandkodiak]

jad, youre the man. feel honored, i made my own txt file jsut for that post, i dont do that for just anyone

as for the CCW in NJ, technically yea anyone can get one that can legally get a FID card and pistol permit (ie no one under 21, no one with any kind of record) but its up to both the NJ state police, i think a local judge AND the poice chief/head of the city you live in to affirm the request... and anyone of them can deny it for any reason because it is not garunteed in the us or nj constitution. you also have to show a clear reason in writting for your NEED to have one, i.e. if youve been hired by a armed security or armoured car company, are an exLEO or military under the age of 70 etc... in which case you are granted a carry permit only during the purposes you list in your request (like i'll carry to/from my home to my job sight) and what youll be carrying...

[jad628]

jad, youre the man. feel honored, i made my own txt file jsut for that post, i dont do that for just anyone

as for the CCW in NJ, technically yea anyone can get one that can legally get a FID card and pistol permit (ie no one under 21, no one with any kind of record) but its up to both the NJ state police, i think a local judge AND the poice chief/head of the city you live in to affirm the request... and anyone of them can deny it for any reason because it is not garunteed in the us or nj constitution. you also have to show a clear reason in writting for your NEED to have one, i.e. if youve been hired by a armed security or armoured car company, are an exLEO or military under the age of 70 etc... in which case you are granted a carry permit only during the purposes you list in your request (like i'll carry to/from my home to my job sight) and what youll be carrying...

Thanks for the kind words, I do feel honored. It (shooting) is one of the few things on earth I have competence in. I take it very serious and it is an everyday tool for me (although a tool I truly don't like to use).

CCL's are really convoluted. Reciprocal agreements between states are varied and too many different rules to do the same thing. I don't know what the answer is, only that we ain't got it yet.

The Federal bill for LEO's to have Nationwide carry even had difficulty in Congress. Probably because someone tacked on something like Section 8 to the same bill and then had filibusters out the ying-yang to put 'em all to sleep. Politicans!!! They don't want people who DO carry everyday to do it somewhere else. The way I look at it, if that State doesn't want me the way I am (legal, trained, and sane), then I don't need to go there.