98 Hypertech Plus Question

**CWW17** · 12-24-2006, 09:34 AM

Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the hypertech plus the only one available for 1998 ls1, and does it have less functions than a HPP3?

**2001NBMZ28** · 12-24-2006, 09:58 AM

Their website should list all the functions, don't think there's a difference though. The only other handheld for '98 I'm aware of, if that's the route you want to go, is the Vinci/Crane unit.

**shady milkman** · 12-24-2006, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by cww17

Sorry if this has been asked before, but is the hypertech plus the only one available for 1998 ls1, and does it have less functions than a HPP3?

the 98 pcms are completely diff then the 99-02 so thats why there are so few, i'm not sure the diffs but i know the 98 is a bitch to change things in the pcm compared to the 99-02

**CWW17** · 12-24-2006, 11:16 AM

how is it a bitch? isnt it just a series of yes or no questions? this is gonna be my first time with a programmer, so im just curious...

**shady milkman** · 12-24-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by cww17

how is it a bitch? isnt it just a series of yes or no questions? this is gonna be my first time with a programmer, so im just curious...

well yea for what you have to put, but for the programer to actually do the things you want it involves alot of work and changing stuff and values in the pcm. so it wont be hard for you to do your input, but the programers work is hard..or was.

**CWW17** · 12-25-2006, 10:07 AM

i see, i see, so it wont be complicated for me... what gains should i expect to see from this?

**shady milkman** · 12-25-2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by cww17

i see, i see, so it wont be complicated for me... what gains should i expect to see from this?

depends on the mods really.

**01Z28M6** · 12-26-2006, 01:28 PM

The hypertechs are very basic tuners; I own two of them. If your car is nearly stock then you "might" see some performance improvement but only if you have switched to a 160 degree thermostat because as far as I can tell, the advanced timing will not be applied otherwise. As for the HPP II vs the III, hypertech is very vague about their nomenclature. Over time I have come to realize the plus, II and III are generally name changes they have given to units that have incorporated other engine support into the same handheld. I know for certain that the III that I have for my LS1 has the added feature of reading and clearing DTCs. I'm going to guess that the II does not do this.

You can contact Hypertech support and they will answer your email but from personal experience the quality of their answers have been pretty much useless. If you have a second hand unit like I have then I really think their interest in giving a quality answer is next to none. That is just my personal experience. I'm sure my statement won't go over well since they are a sponsor so I'll accept whatever response I get but once again, I own two of their units and find some value in them.

**CWW17** · 12-27-2006, 09:17 AM

thanks, thats what i was looking for!

**hamburger68** · 01-11-2007, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by 01Z28M6

The hypertechs are very basic tuners; I own two of them. If your car is nearly stock then you "might" see some performance improvement but only if you have switched to a 160 degree thermostat because as far as I can tell, the advanced timing will not be applied otherwise. As for the HPP II vs the III, hypertech is very vague about their nomenclature. Over time I have come to realize the plus, II and III are generally name changes they have given to units that have incorporated other engine support into the same handheld. I know for certain that the III that I have for my LS1 has the added feature of reading and clearing DTCs. I'm going to guess that the II does not do this.

You can contact Hypertech support and they will answer your email but from personal experience the quality of their answers have been pretty much useless. If you have a second hand unit like I have then I really think their interest in giving a quality answer is next to none. That is just my personal experience. I'm sure my statement won't go over well since they are a sponsor so I'll accept whatever response I get but once again, I own two of their units and find some value in them.

Hi, I'm thinking about changing the thermostat on my car, not really sure about 180 or 160 degree. Does lowering the engine temperature have a noticealble effect on the gas-mileage? (here in Germany the gas prices are astronomical compared to the US...)

**01Z28M6** · 01-12-2007, 05:47 AM

I don't know because it depends on how you drive. The engine temperature affects the entire power-train in more ways than a lot of people realize....

Part of the answer is when the ecm commands closed loop and how/if the air-fuel and timing cells are manipulated. When the engine is cold and in open loop, it is running richer. I think that my car enters closed loop roughly the same as before the thermostat change. However, if you drive in a lot of cold weather and make short trips, things will be different. My car is driven rarely and for sport or over relatively long distances in good weather.

A 160 thermostat opens just as wide as the 180. The difference is that it opens sooner and closes earlier. This keeps the initial engine warm-up from reaching a higher temperature and tries to maintain it within a narrow range. The HPP will also work with the 160 thermostat by turning the fans on sooner and make them run longer. There is a matrix of air/fuel mixtures (Volumetric Efficiency table) that applies to ambient and engine temperatures, mass air flow, air pressure inside and out, vacuum and oxygen levels in the exhaust to protect the combustion from pre-ignition and control emissions. Even automatic transmission shifting is affected by engine temperature; it's all a balancing act. When the engine becomes hot the timing must be retarded and/or the mixture must contain more fuel. Keeping the engine from getting slightly less hot allows for more timing which keeps the power up while demanding less fuel. But also understand that it is important for the combustion chamber to be hot in order to provide the expansion (pressure) that gives you power. That is why the reverse cooling, where heads are cooled first and the cylinder gets the heated coolant provide so much power to these engines.

The factory 180 thermostat is the manufacturer's jack of all trades setting. When going cooler you narrow but elevate the best power and efficiency range.

I said all of this to help decide if a lower thermostat is what you need. The answer is not yes or no without other factors to be considered. I know the answer is long and pedantic but maybe some good information is here too.

**hamburger68** · 01-12-2007, 06:16 AM

Well, sometimes there are no simple answers to complex problems... But thanks, what you wrote actually supports my tendency to go for the 180 thermostat (I now have the 195, isn't that stock? Maybe for the export models...). I think it'll be a good compromise, since it's my everyday car. Lots of city traffic and all kinds of weather.

**01Z28M6** · 01-12-2007, 07:35 AM

Personally, I think you are making the right choice. I can say this from experience, with having the factory (US) 180 thermostat and then telling the HPP that's what you have will not feel like any performance gain. However, there may be changes that are beneficial. On other forums you will be told in no uncertain terms that the hypertech is worthless in regard to tuning. But, some subtle changes improve torque in mid range rpm. I have no data other than the claims made by Hypertech tech support. I believe a nearly stock engine can benefit from the HPP tune both in power and economy. The advantage you have is that you can pull the power tune out any time you feel it isn't a benefit.

Thanks for this thread.

**hamburger68** · 01-12-2007, 08:20 AM

Thanks for the support! And: Yeah, my car is stock except for K+N filter and Dynomax catback. Since it's an A4, the low-/midrange torque gain is what I'm aiming at. I don't plan on doing any mods besides that, since I don't race.

**JRDB84** · 01-15-2007, 06:11 PM

I had problems after i had my hypertech installed. It was profesionally installed by people i trust, but I had a auto. My TA would over rev way to much before shifting. I changed the shift limit many times but it always made a weird buzzz noise when it tried to shift.. I mean thats just my car though

**Killer_bluebird** · 01-15-2007, 07:55 PM

Save your money. I had the Hyperjunk3 on my car and I lost power. The only thing that it is good for is if you have and A4 you can play with the shift points, and rev limiter, ect. Here is my dyno sheet. The first run was with HPP3 the second was without right after deprograming and after running the car on the rollers for a few mins for the computer to readjust, the third was after a couple min brake no HPP3.

I personally think the diablo tuners are a better tuners, or HPtuners if you don't mind learning to do it yourself and don't mind the learning curve (I use this now).

**tici** · 01-30-2007, 02:45 PM

I'm surprised about your AFR.
The Hypertech leans it out, but all your curves show values around 13.5 (too lean... however).
Are you sure that those curves are from different programs?

hamburger68 I have a Hypertech for a 98 LS1 to sell.
I don't need it because I use now LS1Edit.
As I'm In Switzerland shipping costs shouldn't be a problem...

**Killer_bluebird** · 01-30-2007, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by tici

I'm surprised about your AFR.
The Hypertech leans it out, but all your curves show values around 13.5 (too lean... however).
Are you sure that those curves are from different programs?

Yup, First and second where run back to back. With and without the program. Then we drove the car on the dyno for a few minutes to let the computer reset the fuel trims, and such. I have a decreened maf so that might have contributed to the stock tune been also lean.

After I took the programing off my car I put it in my wife's Z28 just to do tranny adjustments as she has an A4 but didn't use so called "fuel optimizations". Then a few months later I went to do a few adjustments and I got an error when I plug the thing in. I called Hypertech and because I wasn't the original owner they said I was on my own and would not even offer to repair the unit even if I paid. I asked them how I could remove their program from my wife's car and they said to take it to a dealer and pay them to reflash it. I was a bit tick to say the least so I will publicize my crappy results and the company's crappy service. I'm not saying that they should have been oblidge to fix it under warranty but again I would have paid to get it fix since they are the only one that cn fix it. I bought HP tuners used and was able to tranfer the licence to me and I'm getting updates and support from them so I will in the future buy from them as a result.

Sorry for the rant. These have been my experieces with the product and the company behind it.

**tici** · 01-31-2007, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by hamburger68

Well, sometimes there are no simple answers to complex problems... But thanks, what you wrote actually supports my tendency to go for the 180 thermostat (I now have the 195, isn't that stock? Maybe for the export models...). I think it'll be a good compromise, since it's my everyday car. Lots of city traffic and all kinds of weather.

Stock in the 98 is 180F. No matter if export or not.
I wouldn't change it because those engines are bult to run hot.
With lower temperatures there will be more deposits in the heads causing higher compression and hot spots = detonation (!)
In a daily drive there is no adventage to lower the coolant temperature, actually the lower the higher the fuel consumption.

**Street Lethal** · 02-04-2007, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by tici

Stock in the 98 is 180F. No matter if export or not...

Remember though, when you change thermostat's without lowering your electric fan settings, the engine will run at exactly the same temperatures (although, the 160 degree thermostat will increase your warm up time wait, slightly)...