Dif Between Mid-Tube and Shorty

**89LX** · 10-07-2006, 02:01 PM

I have read thread after thread and still have no seemingly factual answer I can grasp. Are Mid-Tube headers just Shorty headers and the manufactures putting a spin on it to sell Mid-Tube headers? I know what LT's are and Shorties are, but what is up with Mid's? Same0, so same small gains but ease of installation, etc. 2000 Z28 M6

**BlackLT1Z28** · 10-07-2006, 06:07 PM

Mids are in between LT's and shorties. They're longer than shorties but shorter than long tubes.

**Hurley711** · 10-07-2006, 07:14 PM

Problem with shorties nowadays is that the stock manifolds flow almost as well as aftermarket shorties do......at least on the 4th gen

**BlackLT1Z28** · 10-07-2006, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by Hurley711

Problem with shorties nowadays is that the stock manifolds flow almost as well as aftermarket shorties do......at least on the 4th gen

Yeah, look at the bends and turns on a shorties' primaries. They look terrible and there is no way those flow well. They look like a 4 - banger's turbo manifold.

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 10-07-2006, 10:16 PM

Pacesetters mid's are shorties....but most are inbetween like posted earlier

**89LX** · 10-08-2006, 08:07 AM

If they connect directly to the converter without modification then how can a mid be longer than a shortie? Something has to give unless they are both the same lenght or the mids go a round about way getting to the converter meaning the gases flow a longer distance but enter into the upper converter at the same point? Not trying to argue but still makes no sense to me,

**BadSS2001** · 10-08-2006, 08:11 AM

I am as confused as you are 89. I don't really want longtubes because I'd like my car to remain emissions legal. But I can't see how midtubes are any different than shorties if they hook up to the stock connections. I am just gonna wait on header and get my cat-back first.

**AKIRA** · 10-08-2006, 08:13 AM

Mac sells mid tubes....havent heard about anyone having them in a while. They make decent gains too.

**89LX** · 10-08-2006, 08:28 AM

There is a set of PaceSetter for $409 and BBK Shorty for $384 on EBay at the moment so trying to figure which ones to get. I want gains but not the LT route. I will more than likely go with the PaceSetters. I know you LT fans are hating it but must keep my emissions legal.

**AKIRA** · 10-08-2006, 08:31 AM

Dont mid pipes fuck up emissions too?

**89LX** · 10-08-2006, 08:35 AM

According to PaceSetters information the emissions hook-ups are there for you O2 and the like, and the CATS stay where they were.

**SeVeReDiStOrTiOn** · 10-08-2006, 09:46 AM

Who said mids bolt-up to the stock cats? Mids usually require a new Y and cats just like the LT's...but they're shorter then longs giving them better ground clearance. Mac mids won't bolt-on to stock cats for sure, but pacesetters will because their mids are actually shorties.

**89LX** · 10-08-2006, 10:13 AM

Shamrock Performance Auto, Inc are selling them on EBay and this is their claim...not mine.
These are PaceSetter’s MID-Tube Ceramic Coated Headers!
New in the box
50-states Legal Mid-Tube Headers ☻ All Mid-Tube headers are engineered to deliver the most performance gain while retaining all required pollution control and engine management hookups, including the stock or stock-replacement catalytic converters. All headers use 3/8", CNC-machined flanges, mandrel-bent 16-gauge steel tubing and include all gaskets, hardware and tubing necessary to install and connect to stock catalytic converter.

**BlackLT1Z28** · 10-08-2006, 05:48 PM

Shorties - don't require a new Y-pipe
Mids and LT's - DO REQUIRE a new y-pipe.

And pacesetter does make LT's that ARE EMISSIONS LEGAL. They come with EGR and AIR fittings to keep emissions. The only thing you have to do is weld up a cat on the y-pipe. Any muffler shop can do that.
Nothing personal, but I'm just tired of people bitching about emissions and having to get shorties. If you do your research, companies do make mids and LT's that are emissons legal. SLP makes their LS1 headers emissions legal, so does pacesetter and QTP.

**INMY01TA** · 10-08-2006, 06:04 PM

Originally Posted by BlackLT1Z28

Shorties - don't require a new Y-pipe
Mids and LT's - DO REQUIRE a new y-pipe.

And pacesetter does make LT's that ARE EMISSIONS LEGAL. They come with EGR and AIR fittings to keep emissions. The only thing you have to do is weld up a cat on the y-pipe. Any muffler shop can do that.
Nothing personal, but I'm just tired of people bitching about emissions and having to get shorties. If you do your research, companies do make mids and LT's that are emissons legal. SLP makes their LS1 headers emissions legal, so does pacesetter and QTP.

You don't know what you're talking about. Long tubes and mids are illegal in all 50 states. It's against federal laws to move the catalytic converters from their stock location. Lt's and mids both move the cats further down the exhaust. While it's easy to pass OBDII emissions with lt's and mids (done it twice myself) some places like Cali do a strict visual exam making it impossible to pass with these set ups.

**INMY01TA** · 10-08-2006, 06:07 PM

pacestter's Mid Tubes Are Not Midlegnth Headers, They Are Shorties.

**Da Swami** · 10-08-2006, 06:18 PM

This is from Pacesetter's website:

"All headers use 3/8", CNC-machined flanges, mandrel-bent 16-gauge steel tubing and include all gaskets, hardware and tubing necessary to install and connect to stock catalytic converter."

I emailed them just in case, but it looks like I'm gonna start saving up!

**INMY01TA** · 10-08-2006, 06:20 PM

Originally Posted by Da Swami

This is from Pacesetter's website:

"All headers use 3/8", CNC-machined flanges, mandrel-bent 16-gauge steel tubing and include all gaskets, hardware and tubing necessary to install and connect to stock catalytic converter."

I emailed them just in case, but it looks like I'm gonna start saving up!

Those shorties are a waste of money and don't give you any gains.

**BlackLT1Z28** · 10-08-2006, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by INMY01TA

You don't know what you're talking about. Long tubes and mids are illegal in all 50 states. It's against federal laws to move the catalytic converters from their stock location. Lt's and mids both move the cats further down the exhaust. While it's easy to pass OBDII emissions with lt's and mids (done it twice myself) some places like Cali do a strict visual exam making it impossible to pass with these set ups.

Most places don't have a strict visual exam, but that wasn't the question. They will pass the sniff test if put to the test. As far as the visual test, you can cut the pipes and weld up cats in the stock location. Not rocket science.

**INMY01TA** · 10-08-2006, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by BlackLT1Z28

Most places don't have a strict visual exam, but that wasn't the question. They will pass the sniff test if put to the test. As far as the visual test, you can cut the pipes and weld up cats in the stock location. Not rocket science.

How do you put a cat in the middle of a long tube header Einstien?