Why are Stangs so much slower?

[H8machine]

Hey guys

I wanna know: Why are the 96-03 Mustang GT's so much slower than the Camaro Z28!
Whats with the Cobras? Are they as fasta as a Camaro SS?
What is with the newest Stang?

What's the reason? OK, the have 1.1Liter less than our LS1 or LT1 Camaros! ;) But is that all?

[BIG D's SS]

Small displacement and not enough power. The Cobras will run with a stock SS maybe even edge them. The 05 GT's aren't shit.

[H8machine]

Bit why are they powerless?? And they call them Muscle Cars!! ;)

[zinc03]

I wasn't aware they were all slow........considering the ONLY ls1's that I've raced that were close to me had extensive motor work and or needed N20 :dunno: :dunno::dunno:

[H8machine]

zinc: You are a Cobra Owner... thats diffrent i think. I talk first from the Mustang GT's since the new one comes out. There (STOCK) are slow everywhere i find stats about them. 6.8sec 0-60 is slow for a stock 2000 Mustang GT. A Camaro Z28 goes in 5.6 or 5.4 ... don't remember the correct stats now.

[TwistedSS]

Not this battle again...

Remember, Mustangs have never been called "muscle cars". They are Pony cars, not all out sports cars like Camaros or TA's. Ford's idea of muscle: Cobras and Saleens. Im a GM guy myself, but i'd like to see a stock SS hang with a stock 03-04 Cobra. But isnt it interesting that Ford bolted the stuper-charger on the stangs after GM stopped making the F body?

[H8machine]

OK... Pony cars. But it was alltime "the fight" between Camaro & Stangs! =) But Saleens arn't fast engouh to bet a Camaro from the same year, i read. Only the Cobras can hang with F-Bodys, i think

[zinc03]

zinc: You are a Cobra Owner... thats diffrent i think. I talk first from the Mustang GT's since the new one comes out. There (STOCK) are slow everywhere i find stats about them. 6.8sec 0-60 is slow for a stock 2000 Mustang GT. A Camaro Z28 goes in 5.6 or 5.4 ... don't remember the correct stats now.


A cobra is still a Mustang. To me all F-bodies are slow till you dump a ton of mods into them :thumbdn:

[zinc03]

Not this battle again...

Remember, Mustangs have never been called "muscle cars". They are Pony cars, not all out sports cars like Camaros or TA's. Ford's idea of muscle: Cobras and Saleens. Im a GM guy myself, but i'd like to see a stock SS hang with a stock 03-04 Cobra. But isnt it interesting that Ford bolted the stuper-charger on the stangs after GM stopped making the F body?

Camaros and TA's are also pony cars. The Corvette is considered a "sports" car.

[oneBADDz]

Camaros and TA's are also pony cars. The Corvette is considered a "sports" car.
Go ask an insurance company, there is a reason insurance on a Z is the exact same as on a 'vette

[H8machine]

Oh... a starting war?? ^^

[Gbodyolds]

its not that they are powerless they have smaller motors look at the 2 of them next to each other (GT -VS- Z28) theres a difference but its not extreme. then if you start comparing highest model car against highest model car you have a close race

2000 Mustang GT models Its 4.6-liter sohc modular V8 engine produces 260 horsepower at 5000 rpm with 302 foot-pounds of torque at 4000 rpm. according to
http://www.internetautoguide.com/reviews/45-int/sports-cars/ford/mustang/2000/

2000 Z28 LS1 350 produces 305hp @ 5200RPM and 335 foot-pounds of torque @ 4000RPM according to
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2000&make=Chevrolet&model=Camaro&trimid=-1&src=vip

the camaro has more HP & TQ a 45 HP difference and 33ft-lb of torque difference but theres still more than a 50 cubic inch difference

The '99 Cobra engine is rated at 320 horsepower according to
http://www.musclemustangfastfords.com/features/0110mmff_slithering/

WS6 trans am (99) has a 320-horsepower, 5.7-liter LS1 V8. according to
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/comparison/articles/43923/page005.html

i see a damn close race there with equal drivers

02 Cobra produces 390 horsepower according to
http://www.internetautoguide.com/reviews/45-int/sports-cars/ford/mustang/2002/

'03-'04 Cobra 4.6 is rated at 390 hp according to
http://mustang50magazine.com/thehistoryof/138_0411_mustangs_40/

these cars run close to 500 reliable hp with a tune, exhaust and pulley try that with a few very basic bolt on's on an LS1

05 mustang GT 281ci V-8 produces 300 hp according to
http://mustangmonthly.com/featuredvehicles/mump_0512_steedas/

BIG D's SS said "The 05 GT's aren't shit." 300hp isnt shit ?? the fastest production LS1 350made 350hp the 05 Mustang is a 281 making 300hp so a mustang makes more HP per cubic inch than the fastest production LS1

06 Shelby will be good for 450hp according to
http://www.carbuyersnotebook.com/archives/2005/09/topless_shelby.htm

the LS1 was in F-body vehicles from 98-02 the lowest HP an LS1 in stock form made was 305hp the highest HP an LS1 made was 350 according to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS1_engine#LS1

If the fastest production LS1 made 350 HP and I would *Assume* it was in the 02 model year being it was the last year for the LS1 F-body i would also *assume* it was probably in the higher end car (SS) and an 02 Cobra made 390HP, it looks to me that the cobra would have been the faster car

I'm not sure where some people get these ideas from but a top of the line Mustang verses a top of the line Camaro are not that far off.
dont take it the wrong way I'm not bashing f-body's or mustangs the way i see it is id rather be driving a ford than a honda

[predator]

there was no 02 cobra...

dont forget the cobra r man... you wanna bring those in... they are $70k mustangs... but by god still a mustang...

can gmmg cars be pulled in as ls1 factory cars... if not i dont see how an ss can be...

dont forget black birds

stage 2 baby.... droooooooool

[H8machine]

Cool message with facts! Very good! But as i said: Cobras seems to match with F-Bodys but Mustang GT's are slower than an equal Camaro Z28.

[predator]

if you want to compare... compare price...

i dont know what they were new... if a cobra was $35k... compare it to a $35k fbody... and so on..

[Gbodyolds]

black bird ??? WTF is that

[predator]

BAN HIM!!!!! ED WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!

carl black pontiac black bird (atlanta area)... 380 hp (stage 1)... the stripes up the side of the ram air hood... built by GMMG (same ppl that did the intimidator ss)... interior touches torque thrust d's... although i think there were only 50 a year from 00 to 02 (im pretty sure about this)

oh and i think there are only 7 or 8 stage 2's (500hp i think) out there...

[skar]

:thinkin: [QUOTE=zinc03]A cobra is still a Mustang. To me all F-bodies are slow till you dump a ton of mods into them :thumbdn:[/QUOTEA:thinkin: :thinkin:
A ls1 vs a mustang gt is apples to apples A cobra at twice the money it should beat a ls1. THIS IS A LS1 FOURM! I am sure some one here has a ls1 that will kick your but. And high 12s to mid 13s stock you call slow.

[TwistedSS]

Camaros and TA's are also pony cars. The Corvette is considered a "sports" car.

Take it easy, im on your side!

Its all about money...if you have it, you can make anything fast. How much are 03-04 Cobras again? How much are 01-02 Z28/SS/WS6/TA's again? I should hope the $32,000 Cobra would outrun a $23,000 SS.

once again, if you got the money, it will go fast.

[zinc03]

Take it easy, im on your side!

Its all about money...if you have it, you can make anything fast. How much are 03-04 Cobras again? How much are 01-02 Z28/SS/WS6/TA's again? I should hope the $32,000 Cobra would outrun a $23,000 SS.

once again, if you got the money, it will go fast.


03-04 Cobras were about $34K new, an 02 SS was about $32K brand new. Your comparing new vs used :thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn:

I paid $23.5K for my 03 :dunno:

[Ric]

Cool! I paid 12.5K for mine... so that leaves me with, uhhh... 23.5K - 12.5K = $11K to mod the car with. Should be plenty to cook a snake with.

[zinc03]

Cool! I paid 12.5K for mine... so that leaves me with, uhhh... 23.5K - 12.5K = $11K to mod the car with. Should be plenty to cook a snake with.


Go for it dude :drivin: Dump 11k in your car, then it will be worth 13k when your done :tired: :tired:

Better yet go buy a $1 chevette and dump $23,499 into it and smoke everyone............ricer argument :thumbdn:

[predator]

Cobra guy is doing a good job supporting his side... you have to give him props... terminator cobras are bad ass... cant argue with that... if you try to your stupid...

though 99 and 01 cobras arent really that scary... not too slow, but not too scary... some ppl say 0-60 is faster than an ss, but dont really buy it...

but ok we have proven cobras are awesome... but what about gts or even mach 1's... how do they stand up against stock 02 ss's

and exactly how fast are black birds... i cant find numbers on them...

[TwistedSS]

03-04 Cobras were about $34K new, an 02 SS was about $32K brand new. Your comparing new vs used :thumbdn: :thumbdn: :thumbdn:

I paid $23.5K for my 03 :dunno:

Used 02 Camaro SS's run about 19-22k

Also Z28's are much cheaper; mine is a 99 and worth about 11-12k

[H8machine]

Here i found a BLACK BIRD!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/one-of-a-kind-645-hp-black-bird_W0QQitemZ4599385731QQcategoryZ6420QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[TwistedSS]

Here i found a BLACK BIRD!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/one-of-a-kind-645-hp-black-bird_W0QQitemZ4599385731QQcategoryZ6420QQssPageNam eZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://www.gmmginc.net/html/blackbird.html

Another one

[H8machine]

damn... i wish (again... *laugh*) i'm richer than i am now. ^^

[predator]

yeah no shit... i want a white one so damn bad... saw a scam on ebay that had a white one... that i wished was double the cost and really for sale...

the only thing is they are gonna be like $35k and up prolly for a stage 1 with reasonable miles on it... if in my seach i find on for around $25k with under 30k on it... its prolly mine... then save up for stage 2... and what ever other stage they want to put on it for me...

[juiced99ws6]

Cool message with facts! Very good! But as i said: Cobras seems to match with F-Bodys but Mustang GT's are slower than an equal Camaro Z28.

I would hope that a Cobra can match an Fbody, They are fu&*ing SUPERCHARGED. Now put that same boost on a z28 and run them. No matter how you look at it "there is no replacement for displacement"

[predator]

well lets drop a 351 in a stang and see what it does... oh wait saleen did... ford supercharged it fromt he factory... yay for them... gm doesnt do fun stuff... tough...

thats not even an arguement... thats like saying yeah but the ferrari has a v12... yeah thats what makes it a damn ferrari...

would you bitch that a lightening can spank an SS silverado? i hope not chevy just didnt have the balls to supercharge the SS...

I'm a pontiac guy... if i can gm all the way bros... but if a term was the same price and carried the same insurance that an ss does... there would be a term in my damn garage... purely cause im in it for the power... and with a 70 hp gap ford could win my heart over... oh and saying a rustang is always a pusstang... yeah thats like comparing a firehawk to a firebird... ones the king of the skys and the other cant even fly over a fence...

and there is a replace ment for displacement... its called a fucking supercharger...

[zinc03]

I would hope that a Cobra can match an Fbody, They are fu&*ing SUPERCHARGED. Now put that same boost on a z28 and run them. No matter how you look at it "there is no replacement for displacement"

Do it then. Build one.

I'm tired of the GM guy "well if we had a supercharger" like a bunch of whiney females :loser: :loser:

You don't hear me bitching about lack of cubes, then again there's really not much to bitch about when your smoking F-bodies left and right by train lengths :) :) :yup:

[oneBADDz]

If you are tired of GM guys talking then get the fuck off of a GM oriented website, simple enough. We have plenty of cool mustang guys in here, we respect them and they respect us, we don't need you in here starting shit in every thread that we mention a mustang in. For two years there was ONE model of stang that could take an f-body, who gives a shit

[zinc03]

If you are tired of GM guys talking then get the fuck off of a GM oriented website, simple enough. We have plenty of cool mustang guys in here, we respect them and they respect us, we don't need you in here starting shit in every thread that we mention a mustang in. For two years there was ONE model of stang that could take an f-body, who gives a shit


I've owned 3 LS1s tough guy, including a C5 :drivin: I just here to give the stangs a little respect that seems to be lacking by close minded 18 year old F body owners :Popcorn:

BTW there's about 16,000-20,000 of that model of stang running around

[oneBADDz]

You aren't here asking for respect, you're here talking trash in every thread there is a difference. I am soooo proud of you for there being 16000-20000 of em. Since that matters, there are almost 170,000 LS1 F-bodies, not to mention 5 years worth of LT1s on the road. Let's see, 400000 of us and 20000 thousand of you, good point you made there.

[Transcoupled]

I wasn't aware they were all slow........considering the ONLY ls1's that I've raced that were close to me had extensive motor work and or needed N20 :dunno: :dunno::dunno:

Isn't your 03 cobra supercharged? Vs a stock ls1, shouldn't that be obvious? Race a supercharged ls1 of equal boost and wouldn't that be a better comparison.:dunno: :dunno: :dunno:

EDIT.....Just read the entire post.........I don't necessarily agree but points taken, I guess there is no even comparison, there will always be variables................

[Gbodyolds]

Isn't your 03 cobra supercharged? Vs a stock ls1, shouldn't that be obvious? Race a supercharged ls1 of equal boost and wouldn't that be a better comparison

Isn't that like saying a Mustang GT has 281 and an LS1 camaro has a 350 isnt it obvious? give a mustang 350 cubes wouldn't that be a better comparison

[oneBADDz]

why is the 350Z as fast or faster than a gt then with it's V6, engine size is a weak arguement. If it were all about size we would all have 502s

[Transcoupled]

Isn't that like saying a Mustang GT has 281 and an LS1 camaro has a 350 isnt it obvious? give a mustang 350 cubes wouldn't that be a better comparison

yes it would, my point exactly, just finished editing.....reread please..........so how do we solve this? Hmmmm 69or so cubes vs a power adder, someone do the math for me.

[zinc03]

You aren't here asking for respect, you're here talking trash in every thread there is a difference. I am soooo proud of you for there being 16000-20000 of em. Since that matters, there are almost 170,000 LS1 F-bodies, not to mention 5 years worth of LT1s on the road. Let's see, 400000 of us and 20000 thousand of you, good point you made there.


No trash talking, this is fact talking.

[oneBADDz]

TO me all f-bods are slow until you dump tons of money in em :thumbdn:
Go for it dude :drivin: Dump 11k in your car, then it will be worth 13k when your done :tired: :tired:
:thumbdn:
. . .then again there's really not much to bitch about when your smoking F-bodies left and right by train lengths
nope no trash talking in that, I must have been stupid to take it that way

[zinc03]

nope no trash talking in that, I must have been stupid to take it that way


Yeah your right :lol: What better way to make an introduction to the site :dunno: It's all in fun

[Transcoupled]

Yeah your right :lol: What better way to make an introduction to the site :dunno: It's all in fun

The best part is that after the discussion we can all get along. Every once in a while we just have to get it out.:lol: :dunno:

[oneBADDz]

Hey I have nothing against stangs at the end of the day, golly dang they are the best sounding cars on the road. . .

[Transcoupled]

Hey I have nothing against stangs at the end of the day, golly dang they are the best sounding cars on the road. . .


Oh no.......bring on the war......:Ohno: :lol:

[gingerss]

What about any 06 mustang to the 06 ZO6 AT 505 hp on motor!!! zero to 60 3.4 sec quarter in the 11's . Only 50 or so out on the market as of yet but it is a production car that you can go buy if you can afford it. LS ENGINE TECHNOLOGY IS AWESOME!!!!!!!

[gingerss]

What about any 06 mustang to the 06 ZO6 AT 505 hp on motor!!! zero to 60 3.4 sec quarter in the 11's . Only 50 or so out on the market as of yet but it is a production car that you can go buy if you can afford it. LS ENGINE TECHNOLOGY IS AWESOME!!!!!!! iTS $$65,000 iF YOU COMPARE IT TO THE ford GT with 500hp which is twice the PRICE. Shouldnt the Gt have TWICE THE POWER????

[1fastcamarosss11]

tuff crowd tonight.
:yup:
:yup: :yup:
:yup: :yup: :yup:

[zinc03]

What about the 06 camaro :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The 06 Z is now become supercar status, does a good job too, but come on guys is that the only comeback you guys have for your beloved cancelled out 4-8 year old buckets :lol: J/K

Unfortunately, the new Z has been priced beyond the realm of realistic income.

[myk02k]

Mustang (V6) vs. Camaro (V6) or Firebird
stock for stock the f-body would CREEP slowwwly in front of the Stang. I didnt do too much research with the 6's.

Mustang GT vs. Camaro Z28 or Trans-AM
again...the F-body would creep slowly in front of the Stang. They run very close to each other, but the difference is how they're built. F-body's are restrictive concerning the intake and exhaust. Stangs are well built all-around. The true-duals and dual-overhead camshafts allows the 4.8L push a good punch.

The big difference between these cars is when they're modded out. The 5.7L f-bodies gets a lot of HP gains off of bolt-ons, since like I said they have a lot of restrictions to silence the car out and make it environmentally friendly (to get more green-thumb approvals)...swapping out just the exhaust and intake will add an astounding amount of HP over stock. Mustangs cannot produce the same HP per dollar when buying performance parts, since like I said the car is already beefed up...

[1fastcamarosss11]

bring it on. then lets all have a beer and talk about what we can do to improve our speeds and times. thanks jeremy

[H8machine]

I see i started a war... but on all links i find the Mustangs GT's are much slower than Z28! A close race is a Cobra vs. SS. All stock! Maybe the Stangs have a better road handling... but i can't say it. I just driven a 98Stang with 300HP once.

[predator]

a 99 or 01 corba are probably really close competitors... 320 hp from the factory..., but an 03-04... kiss your ass good by... 390 from the factory.... and pretty easy to get it to lay 425 to the ground for around $1000

[H8machine]

Sure but i do not compare years where i do not have a comeptitor. I think if you see what a LS Motor can put out without a supercharger (Look to the 05 Corvette - 404HP and a Z06 511HP or the Pontiac GTO puts out 400HP) than i must say: F-Body would win also 03-04... if f***ing GM had produced some!

[warpwr]

2006 Mustang vs. 2006 Camaro ?
2005 Mustang vs. 2005 Camaro ?
2004 Mustang vs. 2004 Camaro ?
2003 Mustang vs. 2003 Camaro ?
2002 Mustang vs. 2002 Camaro, ahhhhhhhah.
2001
2000
1999
1998
1997
etc....

[H8machine]

Yes... all over 2002 must be compared with a GTO i think... but it's not the same. We can only compare cars till 2002. if you wanna do a fair compare. also all cars stock! We all know: Do you have enough money, you can make every car fast... also a Honda Civic! ;)

[kamikaZeLS1]

Mustang (V6) vs. Camaro (V6) or Firebird
stock for stock the f-body would CREEP slowwwly in front of the Stang. I didnt do too much research with the 6's.

Mustang GT vs. Camaro Z28 or Trans-AM
again...the F-body would creep slowly in front of the Stang. They run very close to each other, but the difference is how they're built. F-body's are restrictive concerning the intake and exhaust. Stangs are well built all-around. The true-duals and dual-overhead camshafts allows the 4.8L push a good punch.



Dude, you have a damned clue do you? Stock for stock, a Z28 or Trans Am would stomp a GT out. I don't know who you've raced but either they got a hell of a lot more done than you know or your car's missing a few cylinders. Stangs are a 4.6, not a 4.8, and have single over head cams, not dual. As far as the true duals, they still have a few cats, so it's not as high-flowing as you think.

As far as the whole LS1's were only 305hp, I call bullshit. I mean put, say a '99 Vette on the dyno, and then dyno a '99 Z28 and then look at the numbers. I guarantee the numbers would be the same, if not a little higher for the Z28, given that it has a live axle instead of IRS. Interesting considering the 'Vette is '345 hp' and the Z28 is '305 hp'. Flywheel horsepower ratings, especially factory ones, don't mean a thing. It's all about rear wheel, and it you look at the rwhp of a Z28, it should be rated at least 345 at the engine, and a Mustang GT should be rated at least 270 at the flywheel. There is a difference.

[adham]

this is some pretty damn good stuff:haha:

[myk02k]

killed...lol ill admit it when im wrong. ive had a bunch of convos with these kids who own stangs (but never raced them). guess they stretched the truth over the GT's power. One question though...did the GT's have the same motor as the '03 SVT Cobra?

ill stand still with my info on modding the Z28's to the GT's. the kid who put an intake, new exhaust, and reprogrammed didnt gain too much on the track as i expected...ever take a look at the Camaro's intake or exhaust before? the intake's gotta resonator in it to reduce noise level (obviosly not gonna help in #'s) and barely have room to suck in air. the exhaust as well is small as hell and baffles like hell after coming off the throttle. GT's sounds like they have a hell of a lot less restrictions.

oh yea and as far as the Z's running just as fast as the Vette's...Ive done my research on stock track timings on the Z's and yes they were under-rated, BUT do you really think the Z's were built better for about 20K less?!?! Take a look at the Vette's a little better, closer 50-50 weight, wider wheel-base for grip, GREAT flowing true-dual exhaust, higher flowing intake, slightly different camshaft, and im sure there's a whole list i'm missing on this arguement. I'm very sure that GM would be extremely stupid if they marketted the Camaro's the "Corvettes little brother" for a lot less the cost of the Vette's, and they were in actuality faster than them.

I think that car's getting to your head now, at least I'm trying to have an un-biased opinion because of what I drive is being compared here. Next thing would be is that the Z's are faster than the GTO's, Z06's, or Vipers.

[predator]

i take it you are talking about about 96-04 mustang gt's and no... they ran single overhead cam motors with 2 v/cylender... the 03-04 cobra had a DOHC 32 valve motor... the mach 1 had the same valve count so basically the same motor... higher compression though and non forged internals... and the new style gts have 24 valves im pretty sure...

[GottaHaveLS1]

Next thing would be is that the Z's are faster than the GTO's, Z06's, or Vipers.

I'm pretty sure just about all ls1 f body's have been track times than the new GTO. It must be because the GTO is heavier?

[myk02k]

LS1 GTO or LS2? I thought the GTO's ran low-mid 13's.

[gingerss]

A Cobra is a factory modded mustang. Why not compare to a old 02 GMMG modded camaro or an MTI , or Mallet prepped Camaro, or a earnhardt 381hp camaro???? Yes the Camaro is gone! We know so what!

[lrader99]

heres my argument...mustangs sound better no doubt but damnit...FORD needed A roots type super on top of the 4.6 to be able to keep up with the Fbody...i say put a roots on an Fbody and see who would....the saying theres no replacement for displacemtn is true in this statement
4.6 OHC vs. 5.7 conventional block....
hmmmm ill take the 5.7 ltre...actually give me an LT5 ill shutup...i think they need to bring back that motor...maype adapt it to the LS tecnology...LS5 (DOHC 5.7 w/ LS technology...sounds good to me)

[H8machine]

But always i read a paper about Stangs vs Camaro it is called "the battle"... but i see that a Stang GT never had a chance against a Z28.

[Ric]

Nope. Never did.

As for the whole big motor vs. roots blower debate... SHUT UP, ALREADY!!! If you get smoked by one or the other, it's you own fault for racing it.

[ss~zoso~ss]

mustangs suck

[Gbodyolds]

WOW the most childish immature comment in the entire 4 page post, oh go figure he's 17 mustangs suck

[1fastcamarosss11]

WOW the most childish immature comment in the entire 4 page post, oh go figure he's 17

we all love cars and to work on them to make them faster. no matter the car. lets all be friends.:burnout: :burnout: :yup: :yup:

[stangereater]

I would hope that the 03 and 04 Cobras would be faster than a LS1 since they dyno stock at around 390 to the ground, I however have strolled quite a few stock Cobras.

2000 WS6 TA
Ram clutch
SLP air box
SLP Loudmouth Exhaust
90mm Throttle Body
FAST intake
4.10s
MASS AIR
fastest 1/4 was 12.66 at 111.63 on street tires maybe faster now with slicks!!!!

[MLS1]

Stock for stock Z28/TA's beat Mustang GTs. Even modded the GM cars seem to respond better to boltons. The 99 cobra had 305hp same as the 96-98. It claimed 320 but was over-rated in hp. No 2000 cobras were produced (except the cobra r but it's sort of in a class of its own) because they were trying to get the extra 15 advertised hp. Then in 2001 the cobra came back with 320 hp. 2002 cobras weren't produced I guess because of engineering the 03 which got a blower and 6 speed and made 390hp. As far as the 03-04 cobra vs SS arguement the SS would get beat stock for stock. And as far as modded all it takes is a handheld tuner, k&n, and smaller pulley to get about 460hp out of an 03-04 cobra. Im my opinion the "well if I had more displacement or if I had a blower and I bought this for $30,000 and you bought yours for $18,000" is ricer talk. If that was the case buy a $1000 earlier 5.0, then put 20,000 in it and it would own SS's, Cobras, Corvettes, Vipers, etc. They both nice cars and have their strong points, stock for stock seems like a mustang almost always eats a LT/LS out of the hole, but then the GM does a nasty 3rd gear pull on them. I was with a friend in his 02 Gt with exhaust and simple boltons, light to light he owned an LS1 T/A with a catback and Lid but when we went out on the highway it was all mustang until about 35mph when we got ours doors blown off.

[zinc03]

heres my argument...mustangs sound better no doubt but damnit...FORD needed A roots type super on top of the 4.6 to be able to keep up with the Fbody...i say put a roots on an Fbody and see who would....the saying theres no replacement for displacemtn is true in this statement
4.6 OHC vs. 5.7 conventional block....
hmmmm ill take the 5.7 ltre...actually give me an LT5 ill shutup...i think they need to bring back that motor...maype adapt it to the LS tecnology...LS5 (DOHC 5.7 w/ LS technology...sounds good to me)


Ok, give me a 346 cubic inch motor and a 4valve head :thumbdn: Stupid ricer argument. I take what the factory gives me, no excuses :)

[GatorSS]

...stock for stock seems like a mustang almost always eats a LT/LS out of the hole,...
That has not been my experience.

[ls1BrownBoots]

But always i read a paper about Stangs vs Camaro it is called "the battle"... but i see that a Stang GT never had a chance against a Z28.

you must not have been around in the 80's when the iroc z camaro and the tuned port motors in general were a joke and mustang GT's ruled the streets. that was unless some niggah in a grand national rolled up.

[ls1BrownBoots]

That has not been my experience.

out of the hole it's all driver. consider that you may be a better one then the person who wrote the prior post to which you reply

[ls1BrownBoots]

heres my argument...mustangs sound better no doubt but damnit...FORD needed A roots type super on top of the 4.6 to be able to keep up with the Fbody...i say put a roots on an Fbody and see who would....the saying theres no replacement for displacemtn is true in this statement
4.6 OHC vs. 5.7 conventional block....
hmmmm ill take the 5.7 ltre...actually give me an LT5 ill shutup...i think they need to bring back that motor...maype adapt it to the LS tecnology...LS5 (DOHC 5.7 w/ LS technology...sounds good to me)

there is no replacement for displacement... except forced induction.. thats why i have videos of 1.8 toyotas running 8's at new england dragway with big fuckin turbos. You can take your 5.7, some others may opt for smaller force fed engines with 4 valves

[Burke]

killed...lol ill admit it when im wrong. ive had a bunch of convos with these kids who own stangs (but never raced them). guess they stretched the truth over the GT's power. One question though...did the GT's have the same motor as the '03 SVT Cobra?

ill stand still with my info on modding the Z28's to the GT's. the kid who put an intake, new exhaust, and reprogrammed didnt gain too much on the track as i expected...ever take a look at the Camaro's intake or exhaust before? the intake's gotta resonator in it to reduce noise level (obviosly not gonna help in #'s) and barely have room to suck in air. the exhaust as well is small as hell and baffles like hell after coming off the throttle. GT's sounds like they have a hell of a lot less restrictions.

oh yea and as far as the Z's running just as fast as the Vette's...Ive done my research on stock track timings on the Z's and yes they were under-rated, BUT do you really think the Z's were built better for about 20K less?!?! Take a look at the Vette's a little better, closer 50-50 weight, wider wheel-base for grip, GREAT flowing true-dual exhaust, higher flowing intake, slightly different camshaft, and im sure there's a whole list i'm missing on this arguement. I'm very sure that GM would be extremely stupid if they marketted the Camaro's the "Corvettes little brother" for a lot less the cost of the Vette's, and they were in actuality faster than them.

I think that car's getting to your head now, at least I'm trying to have an un-biased opinion because of what I drive is being compared here. Next thing would be is that the Z's are faster than the GTO's, Z06's, or Vipers.

I have got to agree that Corvettes have alot of virtues the f-bodies don't but....
In a 1/4 mile drag race the vette and a Z are really pretty close. I used to have an old 5.0 with N20 and some bolt on's that would hang with LS1's. It was a real adrenalin rush to hang with, or even occasionally beat a vette, but I couldn't put the smack down a Z28. The Z's where just as diffucult to beat as the vette's.
In a road race or top speed race I'm sure a C5 would kick ass and take names though.

[ctbeiser]

I drove a 05 Mustang GT when they first came out. Got about 3 hours of seat time on the highway. It is an alright car. As much as I am a GM guy, almost bought one. I think they are a sweet looking ride. Then I drove a GTO (the one I now own)... WOW what a difference. I would take my GTO over it anyday of the week.

[jamesklyne]

Wow, there's alot of misinformation in this thread.

BTW, the new 505hp z06 is definately badass, and so is the 07 Shelby GT500... 475hp (probably underated).

Oh, and hi... I'm new.

[oneBADDz]

Wow, there's alot of misinformation in this thread.

BTW, the new 505hp z06 is definately badass, and so is the 07 Shelby GT500... 475hp (probably underated).

Oh, and hi... I'm new.
wow, it's not 2007 yet there buddy

[jamesklyne]

Correct! The Shelby comes out later this year as an 07 model. The "probably underrated" comment comes from how similar the gt500 is to the Ford GT engine. It's wet sump and uses an iron block but with the same cylinders heads (Cobra R) IIRC.

I'm searching for a nice 1998+ WS6 (trying to learn if a specific year is better than another) to compliment the stang.

Off to some more searching, laters.

[1fastcamarosss11]

Wow, there's alot of misinformation in this thread.

BTW, the new 505hp z06 is definately badass, and so is the 07 Shelby GT500... 475hp (probably underated).

Oh, and hi... I'm new.

so with all that work you did to your car, you can know hang with an
ls1? :thinkin: :yup:

[jamesklyne]

Apparently only if they miss a gear. :drivin:

Mustangs + boost = :love:

I wish FBody's had more room in the engine bay though. It would make turbo'ing my future T/A much easier.

[1fastcamarosss11]

the new out is put under the car in the back. its on here somewhere.:yup:

[9sec302]

H8MACHINE, it seems obvious you're trying to start a Ford VS. Chevy war but let me see if I can "maybe" help you out here.

First things first.........If you have more money (like stated) you go fast. It doesnt matter if it's a V8, V6 4 cylinder, Ford, Chevrolet, Honda etc.......

Now, your question is why are Mustangs slow?
Define: slow

The 96-03 Mustangs are 4.6 ltrs (that's a 281 block compared to a 346 block). The LS1s are badass motors, that's no secret, they have a ton of technology in them and run damn good from the factory. Hell I wish with Mustangs all you could do is tune them, add a stall, some gears and exhaust and they ran mid to low 12s all day. The fact of the matter is, they don't!!

Ford is more interested in building a sports car cheap so they sell. That is why in 99' the GTs went for 23k and the Z28s went for around 26k-28k. A lot of your older generation guys just want something that has a little more muscle than a Maxima or an Impala SS but with the name (Mustang) or in someone elses matter (The Camaro Z28). The 4.6 ltr mustangs are cranking out 260hp vs the Ls1 Z28s 305 hp.

It went like this. From 82-92 the Mustangs ruled the street (stock). From 93-02 the Camaros ruled the street. It wasnt until the introduction of the 03' Cobra that Ford could run with the Camaro. Hell the Z28s were running with the Cobras in 99'. If the Cobras had an edge on the Z28s, it wasnt more than probably a bumper to a half of a car, and for the price, the Z28 was the car to buy.

You'll hear certain people bash a mustang as you will hear certain people bash a camaro, but in my view, they are both american made muscle cars or pony cars. In 99-00-and 01 Chevrolet was producing way more camaros than people were buying and people started realizing, that for 26k-28k they could buy a Mustang (yes slower) and save a few grand. Now days people are more interested in the family style vehicles (4-door trucks and SUVs) which is why Ford plans to cut 30,000 jobs in the next 6 yrs.

As far as the 2003' Cobra goes, yes the car is in the neighborhood of 35k, and some of you might criticize them, but in all honesty, those cars are a badass car to have. The Vettes cost more than those Cobras and dont run as good, why? because the Vette is more of a sports car vs. a race car. Whoever compared the 02' SS to the 03' Cobra was way off, the 02' SS ran around a low low 13 to a high 12 stock. The 03's run mid 12s all day. Now.........is an 03' more expensive than an SS, yes but not that much more expensive. the 02' SSs went for what, 30k-32k ???

The 03's have a blower and a bottom end rated for 900-1000 hp. That's obvious why the car costs as much as it does, but then again, you're getting a lot of car for 35k. It's not Fords fault they built a car that the public can buy with a power adder.

Saleens.........hmm, they've been criticized for years. The Saleen Mustang isnt really considered as a 1/4 mile car. Those cars sell mainly because of the looks (The ground effects, wing, hood, rims, interior, etc..........and some of them do have superchargers but they are nearly as fast as they are capable of being made. If you buy a Saleen you're going to get the car tuned for everyday driving and more top end mph. Most guys who own them, dont buy them to run the 1/4 mile, so they arent going to tune them. People rag on the Saleens all the time but they dont realize that the Saleen is more of a cheap exotic car.

The simple point is, when you say a Mustang is slow you're not really being considerate beings that the Mustangs are still being produced and the Camaros arent. Anyone can get on here and start in on how camaros arent being made any more, etc, but it's a pointless post. Drive what you prefer and race what you prefer, but be careful when you call a mustang slow, you might line up against a 9 Second 302 one day..........

[H8machine]

You say a 99 Stang will never ran as fast as a F-Body will? Because i have a interesting offer from a guy with a 99 Mustang GT still stock but less dollars than every F-Body in country. :s

[1fastcamarosss11]

You say a 99 Stang will never ran as fast as a F-Body will? Because i have a interesting offer from a guy with a 99 Mustang GT still stock but less dollars than every F-Body in country. :s

hey just have him fly it in, then go through customs, and i'll see him in a month or so. just tell what country or state you want him to lose in. :drivin: :yup: any pics of the beretta? thanks jeremy

[H8machine]

@1fastcamarosss11
Hmmm... i'm a little bit confused about your message... may my english isn't that well because i live in Switzerland (Europe) and my first language is German.
What do you mean "fly in"? The Stang? I will customize every Muscle Car but i can not spend so much money and here in Switzerland arn't many good cars and the offer i got is really good.

Pics of the Beretta... have to do it because a new computer and stored Images were on the damaged disk. =( But will do. You wanna buy and pay same price for shipping then the car costs? ;)

[9sec302]

zinc: You are a Cobra Owner... thats diffrent i think. I talk first from the Mustang GT's since the new one comes out. There (STOCK) are slow everywhere i find stats about them. 6.8sec 0-60 is slow for a stock 2000 Mustang GT. A Camaro Z28 goes in 5.6 or 5.4 ... don't remember the correct stats now.


Where did you find this stat..........6.8 seconds from 0-60????? :thumbdn:

How come in the begining of this post you were dogin' mustangs and now you're going to buy one? IF you can save 3k or more, then buy the mustang but if you're only going to save about 2k or less, you'd be crazy to buy the GT. You're going to have to dump about a thousand into it or more, just to make it run next to the LS1s. You'll need gears, full exhaust and a K&N just to run next to an LS1 and that's actually me giving you about a car length.

Oh well, it's what you prefer.........:burnout:

[1fastcamarosss11]

@1fastcamarosss11
Hmmm... i'm a little bit confused about your message... may my english isn't that well because i live in Switzerland (Europe) and my first language is German.
What do you mean "fly in"? The Stang? I will customize every Muscle Car but i can not spend so much money and here in Switzerland arn't many good cars and the offer i got is really good.

Pics of the Beretta... have to do it because a new computer and stored Images were on the damaged disk. =( But will do. You wanna buy and pay same price for shipping then the car costs? ;)

sorry man i was just messing with you a little. i though you were saying your friend car wanted to race i must have misread it. thanks jeremy

[mogs01gt]

You say a 99 Stang will never ran as fast as a F-Body will? Because i have a interesting offer from a guy with a 99 Mustang GT still stock but less dollars than every F-Body in country. :s
Anything can be made fast. The engine in the ls1 is better on a performance platform.

[H8machine]

Where did you find this stat..........6.8 seconds from 0-60????? :thumbdn:

How come in the begining of this post you were dogin' mustangs and now you're going to buy one? IF you can save 3k or more, then buy the mustang but if you're only going to save about 2k or less, you'd be crazy to buy the GT. You're going to have to dump about a thousand into it or more, just to make it run next to the LS1s. You'll need gears, full exhaust and a K&N just to run next to an LS1 and that's actually me giving you about a car length.

Oh well, it's what you prefer.........:burnout:

Hmmm... dunno where i found this horrible stat... :hide: Newer stats are 5.5 and 14.1 for quartermile...

I never dodged Stangs! I just asked WHY they are slower. =) And looking is cool. I will save around 4000USD to the next LS1 6-Speeder in my whole country. I also say a 08-02 T/A WS6 looks MUCH better than a Stang. But a Z28 (LS1) looks not as good as a Stang (an SS do ^^) But i don't find cars and shipping one to europe... it costs so much and takes so long. I can't do it. I have recalculated my budget. =(

[lee1rbc]

I hear people saying that Mustangs are cheaper then F-body cars? If you got a M6 F-body without T-tops no traction control and cloth I think they sold for 22k in 01. Traction control was a $500 option. T-tops are a $1,000 option. Today I can buy a 01 Z28 with 35k for around 15k. Hey, I just thought of something, I could by a 93 Z28 for 4K and still have more car then a GT.:lol:

[lee1rbc]

Hey, don't get me wrong if there was no Mustang there would be no Camaro.
Back in 91 I drove an 88LX 5.0 and I loved to race Vettes. Also in high school I had a 66 A code 4spd 3.91r. I also have test drove and looked at buying a 99, and 06 GT. When I was driving the 06 it had a great feel and I love how it shifted, but my wife said "It is so much slower then your T/A and I don't think youll be happy." I told the sales guy its a nice car but not enough power. He then asked if I could take him for a ride in my T/A to compare. So my wife stayed in the showroom with the kids and I took the sales guy for a ride. After two traffic light and a couple turns, the salesman said "man, the GT is a nice sporty car, but this is a real performance machine!" He then said that he had been looking at buying a used Mustang but didn't realize how much more car the F-body is.

I know the argument, (you can make any car fast.) But money doesn't grow on trees and this summer I plan on putting my ($9,500) T/A in the 11's and do it by spending less then $2k. (stall,susp,cam,exhaust.)

[H8machine]

You all have to see: Here in Switzerland are around 5-10 T/A WS6 manual with T-TOPS! So you can imagine that the prices are really high. There are around 100 Stangs and that's the reason why they are much cheaper than a WS6 and i don't like the look of the 98-02 Camaros Z28... and there are also just a handful of them in my country... so i have to look to the alternative cars.

[Derk]

H8MACHINE, it seems obvious you're trying to start a Ford VS. Chevy war but let me see if I can "maybe" help you out here.

First things first.........If you have more money (like stated) you go fast. It doesnt matter if it's a V8, V6 4 cylinder, Ford, Chevrolet, Honda etc.......

Now, your question is why are Mustangs slow?
Define: slow

The 96-03 Mustangs are 4.6 ltrs (that's a 281 block compared to a 346 block). The LS1s are badass motors, that's no secret, they have a ton of technology in them and run damn good from the factory. Hell I wish with Mustangs all you could do is tune them, add a stall, some gears and exhaust and they ran mid to low 12s all day. The fact of the matter is, they don't!!

Ford is more interested in building a sports car cheap so they sell. That is why in 99' the GTs went for 23k and the Z28s went for around 26k-28k. A lot of your older generation guys just want something that has a little more muscle than a Maxima or an Impala SS but with the name (Mustang) or in someone elses matter (The Camaro Z28). The 4.6 ltr mustangs are cranking out 260hp vs the Ls1 Z28s 305 hp.

It went like this. From 82-92 the Mustangs ruled the street (stock). From 93-02 the Camaros ruled the street. It wasnt until the introduction of the 03' Cobra that Ford could run with the Camaro. Hell the Z28s were running with the Cobras in 99'. If the Cobras had an edge on the Z28s, it wasnt more than probably a bumper to a half of a car, and for the price, the Z28 was the car to buy.

You'll hear certain people bash a mustang as you will hear certain people bash a camaro, but in my view, they are both american made muscle cars or pony cars. In 99-00-and 01 Chevrolet was producing way more camaros than people were buying and people started realizing, that for 26k-28k they could buy a Mustang (yes slower) and save a few grand. Now days people are more interested in the family style vehicles (4-door trucks and SUVs) which is why Ford plans to cut 30,000 jobs in the next 6 yrs.

As far as the 2003' Cobra goes, yes the car is in the neighborhood of 35k, and some of you might criticize them, but in all honesty, those cars are a badass car to have. The Vettes cost more than those Cobras and dont run as good, why? because the Vette is more of a sports car vs. a race car. Whoever compared the 02' SS to the 03' Cobra was way off, the 02' SS ran around a low low 13 to a high 12 stock. The 03's run mid 12s all day. Now.........is an 03' more expensive than an SS, yes but not that much more expensive. the 02' SSs went for what, 30k-32k ???

The 03's have a blower and a bottom end rated for 900-1000 hp. That's obvious why the car costs as much as it does, but then again, you're getting a lot of car for 35k. It's not Fords fault they built a car that the public can buy with a power adder.

Saleens.........hmm, they've been criticized for years. The Saleen Mustang isnt really considered as a 1/4 mile car. Those cars sell mainly because of the looks (The ground effects, wing, hood, rims, interior, etc..........and some of them do have superchargers but they are nearly as fast as they are capable of being made. If you buy a Saleen you're going to get the car tuned for everyday driving and more top end mph. Most guys who own them, dont buy them to run the 1/4 mile, so they arent going to tune them. People rag on the Saleens all the time but they dont realize that the Saleen is more of a cheap exotic car.

The simple point is, when you say a Mustang is slow you're not really being considerate beings that the Mustangs are still being produced and the Camaros arent. Anyone can get on here and start in on how camaros arent being made any more, etc, but it's a pointless post. Drive what you prefer and race what you prefer, but be careful when you call a mustang slow, you might line up against a 9 Second 302 one day..........

Well said. :thumbup:

In my experiences racing LS1s...

My old 01 Gt would hang about half way through 2 before it started to get ugly. Me and a friend of mine (02 Z28) would race and by the end of first his front was at my side, at the end of second my front would be at his side, but as soon as I hit third I might as well of stopped. It was like I put on the brakes. I'm talking about uuugggllly.

In my 03 Mach I've really only raced 3 LS1s while stock.

Same guy as previous story, only he had traded for an 02 RamAir T/A. I don't know what the deal was but it was never really close. I mean from the start I just steadily pulled from him about 2 car lengths give or take time after time.:dunno:
----
A friend of his with an auto 01 Z28 bone stock. We raced countless times and everytime we both launched well the outcome was the same. Dead even. I would pull just a little almost not enough to count and when I would shift he would pull back even. I'm talking about a foot diffrence at the very most at any given time.
----
Then the last one was an 02 RamAir T/A with nittos, 4.56s, shifter, air lid, and full exhaust. We raced twice.Both times he took me off the line by about a car. But by the time we reached a 100mph his nose was at my side.

Talking about me being super excited and him supper pissed. But we both knew something was wrong. And sure enough come to find out he wasn't running on all 8 cylinders :(

[mogs01gt]

I hear people saying that Mustangs are cheaper then F-body cars? If you got a M6 F-body without T-tops no traction control and cloth I think they sold for 22k in 01. Traction control was a $500 option. T-tops are a $1,000 option. Today I can buy a 01 Z28 with 35k for around 15k. Hey, I just thought of something, I could by a 93 Z28 for 4K and still have more car then a GT.:lol:
because a fully loaded GT was 21-23k while a stripped version was around 16k

[oneBADDz]

because a fully loaded GT was 21-23k while a stripped version was around 16k
16,000 dollar brand new GT, I don't care if you had to get out and crank it to start it by hand, you coudn't get it for 16 new

[oneBADDz]

because a fully loaded GT was 21-23k while a stripped version was around 16k
Here's what you call backing up your numbers.

The Mustang offers a 3.8-liter V6 with 150 horsepower and 215 foot-pounds of torque, for $17,020, and a V6 convertible for $21,520. The GT, powered by a 4.6-liter, single overhead-cam V8 rated at 225 hp and 290 lbs.-ft. for 1998, starts at $21,020 for the coupe and $25,020 for the convertible.

Note that you couldn't even get a STRIPPED v6 for the price you quote on a GT. I'm not trying to get into the age old mustang vs camaro pissing contest, but give real numbers if you are trying to make an argument.

Link to the numbers: http://www.kbb.com/kb/ki.dll/ke.kb.rp?kbb.FL;;FL069&34711;34711&11;Ford;1998%20Mustang&98mustang

[lee1rbc]

because a fully loaded GT was 21-23k while a stripped version was around 16k

I think thats for a stripped v6.

[Derk]

16,000 dollar brand new GT, I don't care if you had to get out and crank it to start it by hand, you coudn't get it for 16 new



I wouldn't say 16k But you could have got a stripped version for just shy of 20k. My dad walked out the door with my 01 GT w/ every option minus the auto trans for like $21,1XX. I kid you not. No trade in no anything.

And I remember us pricing a Z28 so we might be able to say "We can get a Z28 right down the road for X amount." We found a similar optioned one for, I want to say, almost 27k. :thumbdn:

I mean don't get me wrong with the Z you where starting out with a lot faster machine and a lot more potential down the road. but like it's been said before it's all about how fast you can afford to go.

EDIT: And for the record I bought my mach brand new with .3 miles on it for $23,3xx.