160 Thermostat CONTROVERSY!!

[Mustang Killa]

So I live in the hott as balls city of phoenix (tempe actually) where we have already hit triple digit temps..I have a 160 stat for my car and some of the performance shops out here have said it is a BAD idea because having a 160 stat will keep it open all or most of the time never allowing it to cool down...my friends dad is mechanic for like 20 years said the same thing, a performance shop that specializes in stang and f body aftermarket shit said the same...another f body peformance shop said they install tons of 160's

any input would be awesome...when the temp hits 110+ i want the best possible set up

[Mark8fish]

I know that if you remove the thermostat completely it is real bad because the coolant doesn't have time to sit in the radiator and cool down. If your thermo is open all the time this would happen. I would put the stock one in just to be safe. Why fry an engine for minimal gains.

[starbuck]

There is merit to that. When I had a Mustang, I knew a few people who'd had overheats here in Florida when running a 160 thermostat, but were fine with 180s.

[Wesman]

Go with a 180. They are best for our cars. The stock 195 is a little too hot, and 160 is way too cool. On a cold day, a 160 t-stat will prevent the engine from going into closed loop operation, since it enters closed loop at 165 degrees. That negatively impacts fuel economy, emissions, and it can set a code.

However, remember though, what ultimately determines the engine temperature is the setting at which the cooling fans turn on. Stock is somewhere around 210 I believe, so if you get a programmer or tune, you can turn it down to 180. That way the t-stat opens and the fans come on at the same time to keep the engine as cool as possible, which is especially important when sitting in traffic in the heat.

[starbuck]

On a cold day, a 160 t-stat will prevent the engine from going into closed loop operation, since it enters closed loop at 165 degrees. That negatively impacts fuel economy, emissions, and it can set a code.


My roommate is swapping his 160 for a 180 right now for exactly that reason. It is preventing his 98 Z28 from going into closed loop, and we're in Florida.

[Kingbird]

have the 180 with a hypertech tune. no probs

[Mustang Killa]

Thanks to all that have contributed I think I might just go with stock for now and sell or try and return/exchange my 160

[conny9784]

how do you like living in arizona?

[Mustang Killa]

I used to live in st Louis mo wouldn't go back for all the money in the world

[qwk93ta]

I had a 160 in my 93 T/A and the car would NEVER warm up.....it sucked.

[INMY01TA]

I have a 160 and the fans tuned to come on earlier and my car works fine. Winter and summer.

[fxgs]

I have a 160 and the fans tuned to come on earlier and my car works fine. Winter and summer.

:iagree:

[UTVols98]

:iagree:x2

[thndrracer]

yep me 3. exept that i live in florida and don`t have much of a winter, lol

[Firebirdjones]

Cars not entering closed loop with a 160 stat is hogwash.

These things go into closed loop way before that, around the 120 to 130 degree range. Anyone with logging software can tell you that.

I run 160 stats in everything we own,,,including all the computer controlled cars,,,even the cars we drive here in Ohio winters,,,and they have had no ill affects on winter driving and still produce plenty of heat to defrost and keep you warm in the car....even with sub zero temps here.

Mustang Killer,,,,I am moving to Arizona in a few months from Ohio,,,,I would want that 160 stat more than ever.

If it makes the naysayers feel anybetter,,,,,the LS1 160 stats don't actually operate at 160 degrees. I've confirmed this with other LS tuners with software.
If you actually log the temps,,,you can watch the crack open temp, and when the stat fully opens.

The 160 stats due to there design,,,don't crack open until about 172 degrees,,,,and fully open at about 174-175 degrees.
With that said you can't really set the fans any lower. I have my fans set at 185 on and 180 off,,,,,so technically speaking,,,with the 160 stat the engine runs most of the time at 180 degrees or just under that a slight amount.

If I were you I'd go for the 160 because of the operating range of it. There are also other benefits as well. Those that run automatic transmissions are also rewarded with cooler trans temps,,,which we all no high trans temps is the #1 killer of the automatic. Everything under the hood stays cooler as well, it's just a win, win situation with no ill affects on gas mileage or otherwise.

[N20LT4]

I've ran 160 stats in all of the 8 f-bodies i've owned and never had a problem. The only issue I do notice is a slight decrease in fuel mileage over the stock stat due to the cooler temps. Other than that, no problems whatsoever.

[9t8z28]

160 here.

[redss2000]

i just moved from buffalo to atlanta... ive read in my owners manuel that the prev owner aparently installed a 160 stat? but thats just what u wrote in there. how can i tell by lookin at the therm? i know i could just read the guage in the car but i cant tell exactly what temp it operates at when running? help plz

[SpecterGT260]

+1 with everyone else. my car actually runs like poo unless i let it warm up. I have the stock thermo (because i accidentally bought a GTO thermo this winter.... and ill ship it to someone if they just wanna pay shipping) but at i wouldnt do below 180 deg.

[Firebirdjones]

i just moved from buffalo to atlanta... ive read in my owners manuel that the prev owner aparently installed a 160 stat? but thats just what u wrote in there. how can i tell by lookin at the therm? i know i could just read the guage in the car but i cant tell exactly what temp it operates at when running? help plz

There are no markings at all on the thermostats like the older styles do,,,:rant: So the only way to tell is with logging software or a scan tool.

Gauge in the car won't tell you much of anything,,,except when the car is overheating, anything inbetween the gauge is useless..

You'll have to go for a drive and watch the scanner,,,you can see when the stat will crack open,,,as temps will settle a bit and drop 1-2 degrees,,,,then after a minute or so the temps will slowly rise another 3-4 degrees and stabilize,,,this is where the stat has fully opened.
From here you can reprogram your fan settings to get the most out of the thermostat. Hope that helps.

[Sarge]

My roommate is swapping his 160 for a 180 right now for exactly that reason. It is preventing his 98 Z28 from going into closed loop, and we're in Florida.
OK....I didnt read all the post after this....but allow me please :)
Bullshit. I have dropped 160 stats in every LSX I have worked on for many years.....allow a few facts with no internet bullshit....
1. Car goes into closed loop at around 115f-125f....
2. 160 Stat opens around 170ish....
3. Allowing your Stat to open up at 170ish allows for more consistent tuning/temps than a stock stat as it has a few less degrees to cool the block to optimum operating temps.
What that last statement means is when you have a stock stat the block temps get up to 190-200 and then your cooling system ( coolant/water pump/fans) have to bust that ass to get them back down to 180-190. All a 160 Stat does is allows this cooling process to kick in earlier thus allowing for a less dramatic cooling requirement. Keeping you in the optimum temps ( 180-190) with much less stress on your cooling system. If I repeated something I apologize.....

[Z28collection]

ive had a 160 and hypertech programmer for the fans in my 99 z28 for 3 years now and never had any problems. i live in the hot steamy southeast.

[wantaLS1]

you should actually be able to take the thermostat out and look at it, it should have a reading in Celsius. of course convert it to F then there you go! mine was a 71 C which is 160 in F.

[Firebirdjones]

OK....I didnt read all the post after this....but allow me please :)
Bullshit. I have dropped 160 stats in every LSX I have worked on for many years.....allow a few facts with no internet bullshit....
1. Car goes into closed loop at around 115f-125f....
2. 160 Stat opens around 170ish....
3. Allowing your Stat to open up at 170ish allows for more consistent tuning/temps than a stock stat as it has a few less degrees to cool the block to optimum operating temps.
What that last statement means is when you have a stock stat the block temps get up to 190-200 and then your cooling system ( coolant/water pump/fans) have to bust that ass to get them back down to 180-190. All a 160 Stat does is allows this cooling process to kick in earlier thus allowing for a less dramatic cooling requirement. Keeping you in the optimum temps ( 180-190) with much less stress on your cooling system. If I repeated something I apologize.....


Thats pretty much what I explained in an earlier post....:thumbup:

[shiftless]

I know that if you remove the thermostat completely it is real bad because the coolant doesn't have time to sit in the radiator and cool down.

As I mentioned in another thread, this is a myth that is completely false. The thermostat acts as a restriction that RAISES PRESSURE in the coolant jackets. This increases the coolant's boiling point and greatly decreases the amount of coolant boiling off into steam all over the combustion chamber surfaces, thus insulating them from further heat transfer and causing hot spots. It has nothing to do the rate of coolant flow. The coolant can flow at a million gallons per second and it will only help, not hurt, heat transfer.

That having been said, 160* thermostats are a bad idea for a number of other reasons, not the least of which is causing the computer to stay in open loop, along with increased engine wear. I would recommend at least an 180* thermostat.

[fxgs]

............. 160* thermostats are a bad idea for a number of other reasons, not the least of which is causing the computer to stay in open loop, along with increased engine wear. I would recommend at least an 180* thermostat.

:eek:

[Sarge]

As I mentioned in another thread, this is a myth that is completely false. The thermostat acts as a restriction that RAISES PRESSURE in the coolant jackets. This increases the coolant's boiling point and greatly decreases the amount of coolant boiling off into steam all over the combustion chamber surfaces, thus insulating them from further heat transfer and causing hot spots. It has nothing to do the rate of coolant flow. The coolant can flow at a million gallons per second and it will only help, not hurt, heat transfer.

That having been said, 160* thermostats are a bad idea for a number of other reasons, not the least of which is causing the computer to stay in open loop, along with increased engine wear. I would recommend at least an 180* thermostat.
I dont know what LSX motors you work on but I have never, EVER, seen one not go into closed loop after 120f....

[Frost]

Hey guys, just to clear this up for you all.... unless the outside temperature is BELOW ZERO, your car can settle into closed loop anywhere above 92degF so long as some other conditions are met. Yep, that's 92degF is the lower limit, though it's more common to see them actually switch over at 100-120 depending on the current conditions.

[starbuck]

OK....I didnt read all the post after this....but allow me please :)
Bullshit.

You can bullshit all you want, but that's the fact of the matter. Seems most people have decent luck with 160's, but also seems some don't have such good luck with them. His car was not entering closed loop with the 160, this was confirmed with a scanner.
I ran one in both of my old thirdgens, and other than having a lukewarm at best heater in the winter, mine did fine. I eventually ditched the 160 for a 180 though, as I got tired of freezing my ass off in the winter.
I'm glad you're happy with your 160. Mine's running great with a 180 :)

[Firebirdjones]

You can bullshit all you want, but that's the fact of the matter. Seems most people have decent luck with 160's, but also seems some don't have such good luck with them. His car was not entering closed loop with the 160, this was confirmed with a scanner.
I ran one in both of my old thirdgens, and other than having a lukewarm at best heater in the winter, mine did fine. I eventually ditched the 160 for a 180 though, as I got tired of freezing my ass off in the winter.
I'm glad you're happy with your 160. Mine's running great with a 180 :)

Tired of freezing in winter living in Florida????:thinkin: You should have had plenty of heat unless you're a reptile,,,lol. It gets below zero in the winter up here, and we have ran 160's in everything we own for the last 30 years, even my wife and son have never complained about heat :dunno:

As far as closed loop, as Sarge and Frost have already mentioned,,,a 160 won't affect it. I had one in my L98 3rd gen, currently have one in my wifes LT1 and in my LS1,,,,they all go closed loop no problem, even in winter time... I can't speak for other products other than GM of course,,,But that goes without saying..this is after all an LSx site.

But common be honest,,,,are you really cold down there in Florida??? :D

[N20LT4]

I dont know what LSX motors you work on but I have never, EVER, seen one not go into closed loop after 120f....

I agree with you 100%. I have no idea where these guys are getting this information from?

You can bullshit all you want, but that's the fact of the matter. Seems most people have decent luck with 160's, but also seems some don't have such good luck with them. His car was not entering closed loop with the 160, this was confirmed with a scanner.
I ran one in both of my old thirdgens, and other than having a lukewarm at best heater in the winter, mine did fine. I eventually ditched the 160 for a 180 though, as I got tired of freezing my ass off in the winter.
I'm glad you're happy with your 160. Mine's running great with a 180 :)

Okay, time to put your $$$ where your mouth is. Show some proof of what you claim. My proof is i've ran 160's in all 8 4th gen's ive owned, with nothing implicating what you claim in your statement. I would like to see proof from anyone who claim's 160 stats are harmful. I think it's nothing more than speculation - Period.

[Frost]

I can post screen shots of butt-loads of logs that show CL WELL BELOW 140degF.

[mrr23]

Go with a 180. They are best for our cars. The stock 195 is a little too hot, and 160 is way too cool. On a cold day, a 160 t-stat will prevent the engine from going into closed loop operation, since it enters closed loop at 165 degrees. That negatively impacts fuel economy, emissions, and it can set a code.

have you ever looked at a PCM file? you aren't even close. closed loop is determined by IAT and coolant temp.

http://fla-thirdgen.org/images/hptuner/closedloopenable.jpg

[mrr23]

You can bullshit all you want, but that's the fact of the matter. Seems most people have decent luck with 160's, but also seems some don't have such good luck with them. His car was not entering closed loop with the 160, this was confirmed with a scanner.

the tstat is not the reason why it's not going into closed loop.

[9t8z28]

What does it mean when it is in closed or open loop? And what is opperating in open or closed loop?

[mrr23]

What does it mean when it is in closed or open loop? And what is opperating in open or closed loop?

open loop - PCM is not using the o2s to make fuel adjustments while running. it only goes by the VE table.

closed loop - uses the o2s to make fuel adjustments while running.

that's the basics of it.

[mrr23]

any other controversy??

[blackSS01]

Between Sarge and N20LT4 and MRR23 and last but not least Frost, I would take their advice, they know more then you and I put together. I have ran a 160 since the day I bought mine back in 01. I have been to GA, Florida, New Jersey, and my good old crap state WI and never had a problem. It's not the thermo, its something else wrong.

[vettenuts]

Question for the OP, with the 160 installed what is the temp you are running?

You should be able to re-program the fans to keep the motor in the 185-195 area quite easily.

[N20LT4]

Question for the OP, with the 160 installed what is the temp you are running?

You should be able to re-program the fans to keep the motor in the 185-195 area quite easily.

My car runs at about a 170-175* continuously.

[motrhd1]

I live in Fla. 94 today. I have run a 160 ever since I've owned it, it is all about the fan settings, my car never even gets hot nor does it miss closed loop

[N20LT4]

I live in Fla. 94 today. I have run a 160 ever since I've owned it, it is all about the fan settings, my car never even gets hot nor does it miss closed loop

Amen to that! Riding around in Sacramento in the summer with temps reaching 112*...and my temp needle posted @ 180 makes me feel good. :)

[Firebirdjones]

Amen to that! Riding around in Sacramento in the summer with temps reaching 112*...and my temp needle posted @ 180 makes me feel good. :)

What a small world, my wife and family are from Sac,,,,Rio Linda to be exact.

We are up there all the time. Love old Sac and the train museum area.

[N20LT4]

What a small world, my wife and family are from Sac,,,,Rio Linda to be exact.

We are up there all the time. Love old Sac and the train museum area.

Yeah I have been up to train museum several times. Great place to sight see if you are not from around here. I have a few friends from the Rio Linda area that are Mustang guys. That seems to be the car of choice for most of the guys around that area.

[Firebirdjones]

Yeah I have been up to train museum several times. Great place to sight see if you are not from around here. I have a few friends from the Rio Linda area that are Mustang guys. That seems to be the car of choice for most of the guys around that area.

Thats cool. My Father and Mother in-law both work at the museum and restore the old trains as well, so when we visit we always get a free tour along with lunch at what used to be the old train depot.

[SSTODD]

Rush is always talking about you people from Rio Linda on his radio show.:hide::true:

[Firebirdjones]

Rush is always talking about you people from Rio Linda on his radio show.:hide::true:

LOL, I wouldn't know, I don't listen to the talk shows, I don't even watch much TV for that matter,,,,,:dunno:

But people say what they want. My inlaws have lived there since 1928 and still kickin...I've been there 100's of times for weeks at a time,,,,I really don't have a problem with the area myself either.
Other than of course all the mexicans that can't speak English,,,but shucks,,,thats just about anywhere you go in California anyway :dunno:

[SSTODD]

It is just a name I recognized from him saying it all the time for years. It is an inside joke that he has to explain everything simple so Rio Linda understands.
I thought it was funny when you mentioned the place but I was not trying to offend.:blah::love:

[Firebirdjones]

It is just a name I recognized from him saying it all the time for years. It is an inside joke that he has to explain everything simple so Rio Linda understands.
I thought it was funny when you mentioned the place but I was not trying to offend.:blah::love:

LOL, no offense taken sir. I just figured if it had to do with a talk show then it was probably all negative anyway.
Seems no one wants to talk about anything good on TV or Radio because it doesn't sell,,,,hence the reason I don't watch or listen to any of it. ;)