3:73 or 4:10

[Zeroskater1028]

What ring and pinion set would be better?

[Tman]

Normally on the average A-4's use 3.73....M6 tend to go with 4.10

[Ric]

This is assuming a T56:

Street, 4:10

Strip, 3.73

Road Course, 4.10

My suggestion??? GM 12-bolt non-C with 3.90 gears, or even better... Ford 9" with 3.89s.

[00SSVERT]

This is assuming a T56:

Street, 4:10

Strip, 3.73

Road Course, 4.10

My suggestion??? GM 12-bolt non-C with 3.90 gears, or even better... Ford 9" with 3.89s.
Actually the 12 bolt is a much better design because of pinion placement. The 9 in. is easy to swap gears, so the best combo would be a 9" housing and a 12 bolt center. Best of both! A couple companys make the 12 bolt center sections for this.

[foff667]

depends on the mods & use...too many variables to say one or the other without knowing more about your car & its use. I will say this though...i assume its a T56 tranny...meaning stock you have 3.42's...going from 342 to 373 is a very very small jump and probably not worth it. For most people that drag race 4.56, 4.30 or 4.10 are the gears of choice.

[SLP00blueSS]

i have an m6 car with not many mods and i put 4.10 in mine and could not be happier it's crazy out of the hole but didn't lose all my top end still get 24 mpg on the e-way!!!

[00SSVERT]

Also an M6 w/ 4.10's, perfect for this car and the trip to CA. ave.27 mpg @ 80+ mph.

[Hurley711]

Are you M6 guys with the 4.10's having any problems with the stock 10 bolt? That scares the crap out of me.

[Uno99]

4.10 for a M6 is bad ass.

[Fran D]

Are you M6 guys with the 4.10's having any problems with the stock 10 bolt? That scares the crap out of me.
No...but they've only been in for a few months. ;)

[00SSVERT]

Are you M6 guys with the 4.10's having any problems with the stock 10 bolt? That scares the crap out of me.
No problems so far after 15,000 mi. I only changed gears, pinion seal and installed the support rear cover, then filled w/ Mobil 1 sythetic gear oil. Lots of smokin' burnouts through 3 gears. If anything my clutch is the problem area. It is a McCloud 2 disk system but I still need to do the drill mod and that should help it out. Just such a bitch having to take out the master.:hmm:

[dafizzman1]

i LLLLOOOOVVVVEEEE the responsiveness of the gears. after a shift it is right in the "sweet spot" every time!


about 27mpg, something must be wrong w/ my car 'cause at BEST i get 17mpg.

[Dr. Ronald Stroh]

IMHO, I have both a '99 and '00 T/A Hawks and I attempted to go to 4:10 in the '99. Used 2 different brands of gears, both Nascar used and approved, in my heavy duty, from the factory, Auburn rear. Both times the pinion stripped the teeth and I NEVER even really got into it. I was told by both manufactuerer's that the 4:10 in the stock 7 1/2 rear just don't work out (so why do they sell them?) Went to the 3.73 and no problems since, except a little loud rear end sound (checked settings twice and the wear marks on the teeth are correct). So.........on the 2000 that has an LS-6 with a number of upgrades, I am purchasing a MOSER rear end, shortened to accept VERY large street tires, the rear tires G-Force KDW's (same height as the stock front) using 18" corvette rims. The moser is the 9" ford billet rear with a street locker. Moser claims it can handle well over 700HP and 700 Ft. Lbs. That, of course, is with all the power upgrades on the rear-end.
While I loved the 4:10's, I would NEVER put them in my stock rear-end. Just isn't big enough to handle the torque. Just my 2 cents worth but I have spent ALOT of money, time and frustration trying to get the rear-end set-up right. And all I wanted is a little more "TO THE SEAT BACK" acceleration and I ended up really frustrated twice.
Best in your decision!
Doc Ron

[BadBlueBird*]

4.10s /thread

[Fade2Black]

How much top end 4.10's take off

[bad6as]

whats the top speed w/ 3.73 and 4.10 in 4th?
and what kind of e/t's would i be geting if it was crossing near the shift point w/ thoes gears

[Dr. Ronald Stroh]

Well, for what it worth, I have decided to go with a Moser custom rear end: shortened, Billet, posi (can't find the specs right now) C clamps on the shafts with a 9" ford with a 12" gear set in the 4:10-4:30 range. All this for $2500+ bucks and I still have the "good shape" Firehawk rear end to sell. I am coupling this with a new tremac M-6 Billet with 33 spine throughout and a final 6th gear to actually increase the final ratio due to the increased HP and torque soon to come and allow me to still maintain 30 MPG+ at the speed limit. This trans has key graphite syncros and billet shaft rods etc. Cost? $3500, however, I still have a Firehawk M-6that needs new synchro's throughout to sell. All in all, I think I have found the best of all worlds with this set-up. Oh yes, going with a Centerforce Dual friction clutch and a Billet alum. flywheel. I know, potentially dangerous but I have it programmed to assure that I don't "unglue" the engine while on the street. I plan to be finished with the install within 2 weeks of Christmas. I will post again and tell you how the install and mods work out.
Best to all and a Blessed Holiday (?) season to all people of good will!
Doc Ron
'00 WhiteHawk

[GregP]

Hi guys,

The 2002 Camaro SS with M6 has the following gears in the T-56:
1st: 2.66
2nd: 1.78
3rd: 1.30
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.74
6th: 0.50
Rev: 2.90

Assuming stock 275/40R-17 tires, the diameter is 25.66 inches, with a cricumference of 80.61 inches. With these defined, the speeds at various rpms are not too difficult to get.


With a 3.42, at 6000rpm, the theortical top speed is 268mph ... but you can't get there. Theoretical top speed in 5th is 181mph, but you can't get there either. The 2002 Camaro SS is electronically limited to 161 mph. At 6000rpm, you could back up at 46mph. At 65mph, in 6th gear, you'll be doing 1456rpm. For you drag racers, 6000rpm in 3rd will get you to 103mph, so you might have to shift right near the end of the run, unless you rev higher.

If you get a 3.73 rear gear, the speeds at 6000 rpm would be: 6th: 246, 5th: 166. Again, you'd be electronically limited. At 65mph, you'll be turning 1588rpm. 6000rpm in 3rd will just get you to 94mph, so you will have to shift to 4th on a strip.

If you go to a 4.11, again at 6000rpm, you'd have a theoretical top speed of 223mph in 6th (limited to less), and in 5th you could go 151mph. At 65 mph, you'll turn 1750 rpm in 6th. At 6000rpm, 4th gear will just hit 111mph, so you might or might not have to shift into 5th. Depends on your power level.

If you opt for a 4.56 at 6000rpm, 6th gear would get you to 201mph if not limited, 5th would get you to 136mph, and 4th will be right at 100mph. You will definitely have to shift into 5th on a dragstrip.

If anyone wants calculations for different tires, just let me know.

If anyone wants to post the Microsoft Excel spreadsheet, let me know and I will happily give it to the forum.

About the "Speed Limited" stuff above. You CAN purchase programmers that remove the limiting, but the stock LS1 doesn't put out enough power to get a stock F-Body to 200 mph anyway. If I am not mistaken, the stock 2002 F-Body with a stock LS1 is aerodynamically limited to about 168 mph. That's when the aerodynamic drag is about the same power level as the RWHP.

[Dr. Ronald Stroh]

Hey Greg,

Sorry I haven't followed the tread for a while but today is the first day up from being REALLY sick. Anyhow, while your figures are absulutely right, you are assuming a number of things that do not apply in mny my situation. Such as: One has to calculate in other factors such as: My LS-6 is Hyperteched will no rev limited or top speed limiter. (May not be safe with no RPM limit, but I pay VERY close attention to RPM's.) Also, I use tires at 2:85x40x17 right now but within a month will have the moser rear with 4:11 gear's but a MUCH higher 6th gear in the new Trans. will actually reduce RPM at road speed. Next, the new tires will be the same as the front 18"s of the vette (my rear end brought in.) Next, you are also assuming that the stock HP and Torque remains the same while mine has many add-on's with several more biggies coming, I.E. Supercharging. I have already had the car over 165 (won't even talk about how I know the speeds) and it was still climbling, although not quite as fast as under 100. As soon as the whole thing is broken in and I also am "broken in" to the new pattern's, I promise I will post my 1/4 mile slips in this group. Although I know other's will argue my choice of gears and mixes, when all is said and done, each person decides for themselves and that's what makes it fun. My reactions (at 55) are not at all what they were even 15 years ago so my times should be slower. But perhaps the homework done on this expensive toy will make up the difference! Happy new years to all!
IHS
Doc Ron

[MadSeason]

Hey Greg,

Sorry I haven't followed the tread for a while but today is the first day up from being REALLY sick. Anyhow, while your figures are absulutely right, you are assuming a number of things that do not apply in mny my situation. Such as: One has to calculate in other factors such as: My LS-6 is Hyperteched will no rev limited or top speed limiter. (May not be safe with no RPM limit, but I pay VERY close attention to RPM's.) Also, I use tires at 2:85x40x17 right now but within a month will have the moser rear with 4:11 gear's but a MUCH higher 6th gear in the new Trans. will actually reduce RPM at road speed. Next, the new tires will be the same as the front 18"s of the vette (my rear end brought in.) Next, you are also assuming that the stock HP and Torque remains the same while mine has many add-on's with several more biggies coming, I.E. Supercharging. I have already had the car over 165 (won't even talk about how I know the speeds) and it was still climbling, although not quite as fast as under 100. As soon as the whole thing is broken in and I also am "broken in" to the new pattern's, I promise I will post my 1/4 mile slips in this group. Although I know other's will argue my choice of gears and mixes, when all is said and done, each person decides for themselves and that's what makes it fun. My reactions (at 55) are not at all what they were even 15 years ago so my times should be slower. But perhaps the homework done on this expensive toy will make up the difference! Happy new years to all!
IHS
Doc Ron

Hey Doc Ron, just wanted to say something about the rev limiter and watching your RPMs. The Stock Tach has a latency of up to 500RPM, so when you think you're about to hit redline you may already be past it. I suggest a digital for more accurate readings.

Ed

[GregP]

Hi Doc!

My spreadsheet has a tab to let YOU choose the tire size, and then YOU input the gear ratios. Then YOU set the rpm and you get the speed.

If you want it, just PM me your email address and I'll send it. If you don't, I understand. Many people's spreadsheets are not too useful. Mine are. I try very hard to get "reusable solutions" to questions instead of a single situation solution.

I also have a tab with the "Hot Rod" drag racing formulas on it. They don't all agree with each other, but the equations are shown on the spreadsheet, and are used in Hot Rod Magazine for calculations, at least according to them in one issue.

Anyway, thanks for you posts. I can tell you are a serious car guy. I am serious too, but not well funded, so my 2002 Camaro SS is mostly stock so far, but I have better brakes, shocks, and shifter. Will do more as funds are available. Will have it paid for in about a year, and will do the "600 hp toy car" thing after that time, with chassis and handling coming first, engine last.