USA vs Germany

[eautocad]

Would you rather have a car that's safety was engineered around autobahn speeds? Or would you rather have a car that was engineered around USA interstate speeds?

In this scenario, your rich and money doesn't matter.. Pick one for your family to ride in going 150mph plus.

[bluefields88]

I'd pick a Volvo first. those things are tanks. Swedish tanks.

[eautocad]

my uncle has a 2002 volvo yes they are tanks. Pretty quick for being so heavy and tankish

[2000T/A Guru]

I had a 79 malibu that i crashing into my dads truck, brake were out, crashed into a brick wall and into a ditch when i was drunk and passed out. Only a slightly bent bumper that was a tank.

[hamburger68]

i'm german, got a canadian girlfriend and two american cars (the camaro and a 93 ford explorer). so i think i'm kinda neutral.
well, the poll-results say it all: german cars are unbeaten in high speed performance and reliability. especially audi, mercedes, bmw and porsche. why do they perform so well? cos they're frakkin' expensive, that's why! better built quality, better materials, advanced technology costs money.
porsche 911 goes for 100,000 euro here. all car, no bling. the technician who rebuilt the rear end of my z couldn't get over the poor quality of the gears' material. he's specialized in porsche.
but crash tests are pretty much the same on both sides of the atlantic, and how often do you go that fast?

[eautocad]

I'm surprised to see how many on an American forum chose the euro cars.

[bluefields88]

I'd buy a BMW before a Mercedes, they hold their value better usually.

[D3VIL]

I'm surprised to see how many on an American forum chose the euro cars.

well nobody is fooling themselfs, if you wanna go 150+mph and you have no budget, going with the euro car is no question b/c there made with better with better technology.

[D3VIL]

I'd buy a BMW before a Mercedes, they hold their value better usually.

agreed, plus i think there sportier and they look better!

[2000T/A Guru]

Not really, if I had no budget i would get a vette, and build the shit outta it, if you have no budget, then get american, chevy has one of the best aftermarket selection in the world. BMWs and Mercedes you need custom parts and kits to build those, chevy has soo many more options. Also i would get a porche, mercedes, all too heavy, BMWs other than the m3, all the ones capable of making insane power also weigh 4500lbs.

[hamburger68]

Not really, if I had no budget i would get a vette, and build the shit outta it, if you have no budget, then get american, chevy has one of the best aftermarket selection in the world. BMWs and Mercedes you need custom parts and kits to build those, chevy has soo many more options. Also i would get a porche, mercedes, all too heavy, BMWs other than the m3, all the ones capable of making insane power also weigh 4500lbs.

with american cars you definitely get more bang for the buck.(why i drive one.) i love the aftermarket prices for parts, but the quality is just not so great compared to german or japanese.
for handling, safety and reliability at high speeds + built quality i'd have to say german. bmw, audi and merc are built to be constantly driven at 120 mph or more. the corvette is the only u.s. car that plays in that league.

[2000T/A Guru]

What about the viper? Gt500, may not run the best 1/4mile but with just a kenne bell S/C on those can make over 700rwhp with everything else stock, also if you have no end to your bank account and are building a car, then you are replace suspension, rear end, tranny, engine with high end parts so they can take anything. The new vette is making more hp than any of those car companies except for the SLR McClaren with its 660hp but it also weighs more than the vette the vette is 650hp 10hp away with about a 400lbs weight advantage.

[hamburger68]

with enough money, you can build anything! the original question was about safety, and i think he meant basically off the shelf cars.

[Toes]

my 2 cents if you can afford an expensive car you can afford the maintenance for reliability, as far as saftey if a F-650 could go 150mph+ i would be driving it on the autobaun and wipe the porsches off my bumper:shitstorm:

[hamburger68]

my 2 cents if you can afford an expensive car you can afford the maintenance for reliability, as far as saftey if a F-650 could go 150mph+ i would be driving it on the autobaun and wipe the porsches off my bumper:shitstorm:

sounds reasonable, go get 'em tiger!

[jad628]

I'd buy American and improve on it. While the MB's, etc., are better straight from the factory, they are also becoming the status quo. I want something different. An American car appeals to me because I like to buy American.

The recent MB commercials are really obnoxious. Wipers that perform at Autobahn speeds? Give me a friggin' break!!! If it's raining, your dumb ass shouldn't be going 150+.......period.

[hamburger68]

I'd buy American and improve on it. While the MB's, etc., are better straight from the factory, they are also becoming the status quo. I want something different. An American car appeals to me because I like to buy American.

The recent MB commercials are really obnoxious. Wipers that perform at Autobahn speeds? Give me a friggin' break!!! If it's raining, your dumb ass shouldn't be going 150+.......period.

prolly not 150, but it's nice to have working wipers at 100. and lots of people go 120+ here even in rain.

[2000T/A Guru]

Yeah, lol i dont my fast cars in the rain, except once i went 140 or something in the supra when it was raining.

[slims00ls1z28]

Where's the neither option. At 150 + your chances in either are about the same slim to none, one may be .08 the other .18 (not actual statistics BTW). Few cars are designed to withstand accidents at that MPH and actually stay intact, Enzo's are one that comes to mind. But Also it will depend on the type of car. Cobalt vs a 600 Benz benz all the way however Cadillac CTS vs a comparable benz should be equal. If you impact something solid at 150 you are dead in either, start rolling at 150 you are dead in either. Stability is different altogether but same formula still holds a Vette will hold better than a beetle an AMg better than a lesser American.

[hamburger68]

... people in mercs and audis have survived crashes at 150+ (happens all the time here). in guard rail billard, flipping over / rolling you have a chance. run into something solid (slow car / truck) and it's over.

[Johns00Z28]

Would you rather have a car that's safety was engineered around autobahn speeds? Or would you rather have a car that was engineered around USA interstate speeds?

In this scenario, your rich and money doesn't matter.. Pick one for your family to ride in going 150mph plus.

My question is, why in the hell would you take your family for a ride going 150mph plus? You must not give two shits about them if you are going at that ridiculous rate of speed with them in the car.

[hamburger68]

why not? safe car, traffic, road conditions and weather appropriate: no problem.

[Johns00Z28]

You're on crack or you don't care about your family if you're willing to drive 150+mph with your wife and kids in the car. The slightest mistake will result in everyone's death, you can count on that.

[hamburger68]

see, it's done here all the time. by people who are not on crack.

[jad628]

see, it's done here all the time. by people who are not on crack.

That narrowed down the excuses then, didn't it?

150+ with my kids in the car? No way, absolutely zero chance of that outside of some catastrophic event.

[hamburger68]

That narrowed down the excuses then, didn't it?

150+ with my kids in the car? No way, absolutely zero chance of that outside of some catastrophic event.

just to make that clear again: when you drive at such speeds you have to make sure you take all the precautions necessary. most road and/or traffic conditions (also on the german autobahn) do not allow going that fast. and i really get mad a people going 120+ in thick traffic or rain.
but when it's dry, no traffic and a straight freeway: with the right car it's pretty safe.

[jad628]

just to make that clear again: when you drive at such speeds you have to make sure you take all the precautions necessary. most road and/or traffic conditions (also on the german autobahn) do not allow going that fast. and i really get mad a people going 120+ in thick traffic or rain.
but when it's dry, no traffic and a straight freeway: with the right car it's pretty safe.

I agree. Especially on the Autobahn, which was tailored made for higher speeds. Still, anyone who thinks ANY production road car is going to be significantly safer in a true head-on collision at 150mph is mistaken. Just the dynamics of force exerted from 150 to 0 in a few feet is more than enough to snap your neck. No matter how strong the car is, the human body has limits. Sort of like how you get a concussion. The blow itself may only do superficial damage, but the force causes your brain to bounce around which reeks all kinds of havoc. Such is the case with high speeds in car crashes. I personally watched a 105mph crash happen. No glancing blow either, it was dead on. It took over two hours to cut that dead guy out of the car. From the passenger area forward you could not identify any feature of that car other than the color. It was a four door and you could not even tell that.

I'm sure that the US has areas in Texas and the midwest where areas of interstate are probably better suited for high speed driving than those in Germany. While the ability of the cars to carry this out isn't disputed, the talent of the driver definitely is. A wrong move by an average driver at a lower speed can easily trump a good driver in a great car at a high speed. You just cannot make up the difference with a better car.

[hamburger68]

i totally agree. and again, here in germany people are used to high speeds, slower traffic keeps right, etc. but still, there is no such thing as risk free driving. you gotta be careful.

[krusemj]

If you think going 150 anywhere or in anything with your family in the car is safe you are a coplete idiot. The reason is there is way to many things that could go wrong that you have no control over. What the hell hapens if a deet jumps in front of you or someone cut you off. Never mind a blowout. and just because people do something that dosent make it a good idea.

[hamburger68]

If you think going 150 anywhere or in anything with your family in the car is safe you are a coplete idiot. The reason is there is way to many things that could go wrong that you have no control over. What the hell hapens if a deet jumps in front of you or someone cut you off. Never mind a blowout. and just because people do something that dosent make it a good idea.

as much as it may surprise you, you're completely right in every aspect. high speed travel in cars is never safe. but if you hit a deer or some piece of lost payload at 70 or 80, you are screwed as well. the risk is not as high, but still.
btw, i support the installation of a general speed limit on the autobahn!

but i don't think the german accident numbers are higher than the american. actually, it would be interesting to get them...

[hamburger68]

found it:

fatal traffic accidents per million citicens in 2004: 71 in germany, 145 in the u.s.a.

makes you think, huh? i actually wouldn't have expected that. you guys just drive crazy!

[Johns00Z28]

That's because we issue a license to any retard or illegal alien, not to mention I think we have approximately 300 million people and you guys only have 82 million according to a recent survey. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/gm.html So we have more than twice the fatalities yet more than three times the population, so per capita you guys have a higher death rate than we do.

[krusemj]

Yeah there is no doubt that it needs to be way more diffucult to get a license in this country. Just wondering is it any harder to get one in Germany. No matter what I still would never do 150 with my wife or litte boy in the car. That is double the limit of almost every limit in this country.

[hamburger68]

That's because we issue a license to any retard or illegal alien, not to mention I think we have approximately 300 million people and you guys only have 82 million according to a recent survey. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/gm.html So we have more than twice the fatalities yet more than three times the population, so per capita you guys have a higher death rate than we do.

please learn to read: the numbers are per capita. so you have a total of 43500 killed, we have 5800. also, we have a higher population density.

Yeah there is no doubt that it needs to be way more diffucult to get a license in this country. Just wondering is it any harder to get one in Germany. No matter what I still would never do 150 with my wife or litte boy in the car. That is double the limit of almost every limit in this country.

about 10 times harder. but we have a lot of immigrants bringing their so called "licenses".

[jad628]

found it:

fatal traffic accidents per million citicens in 2004: 71 in germany, 145 in the u.s.a.

makes you think, huh? i actually wouldn't have expected that. you guys just drive crazy!

That statistic may be true, but I'd like to see it compared to miles driven by each citizen. I'm certain that Americans drive many more miles than Germans.

[hamburger68]

That statistic may be true, but I'd like to see it compared to miles driven by each citizen. I'm certain that Americans drive many more miles than Germans.

actually, that came to my mind too. also, seatbelt discipline, fleets technical condition etc.
but really, i would have expected it to be rather even.
btw, germany is a bit above average in the european comparison.

[2000T/A Guru]

150 with my family in the car, i dont know how you could even go that fast because my girlfriend would kill me long before 130 if the baby was with us.

[hamburger68]

talking about safety/family: guys, this afternoon i was with my girlfriend on the way to her parents. there was a sharp turn in the two lane road we were on. car on our left, 4 door sedan going 25 or 30. suddenly the rear passenger door flies open, and i see this 3 year old boy on the backseat, no belt or child seat. he must have played with the handle, women on his left reaches over and closes the door, grabs the boy. off they go. nobody in the car wore belts.
i'm still beyond furious! that kid almost fell out of the car!

[Johns00Z28]

[QUOTE=hamburger68;1162540]please learn to read: the numbers are per capita. so you have a total of 43500 killed, we have 5800. also, we have a higher population density.



I'll learn how to read when you learn to be responsible and practice good sound judgement. Clearly, you severly lack both if you're willing to endanger your family in such a wreckless manner.

[hamburger68]

[QUOTE=hamburger68;1162540]please learn to read: the numbers are per capita. so you have a total of 43500 killed, we have 5800. also, we have a higher population density.



I'll learn how to read when you learn to be responsible and practice good sound judgement. Clearly, you severly lack both if you're willing to endanger your family in such a wreckless manner.

i'd like to close this argument, cos it's leading nowhere.

but if you read through my posts, you should see that i only said under certain, very carfully chosen circumstances it is not that risky. for example, driving on a side road in the mountains at normal speeds can be a lot more dangerous from my experience.
honestly, i sincerely condemn any reckless or irresponsible driving.

[Common]

I just came back from being in Germany for two weeks, autobahn is all I thought it was going to be, one thing that it is a myth for sure are the speeds.
70-80% of autobahn has no speed limit, however most people stay around 110-130km, there are ocassional 911s doing 280-300 but I have seen maybe one or two of those, people over there, eventhough allowed really tend not to "open their cars up", I don't blame them, at 7,25$/gallon I understand.

[hamburger68]

I just came back from being in Germany for two weeks, autobahn is all I thought it was going to be, one thing that it is a myth for sure are the speeds.
70-80% of autobahn has no speed limit, however most people stay around 110-130km, there are ocassional 911s doing 280-300 but I have seen maybe one or two of those, people over there, eventhough allowed really tend not to "open their cars up", I don't blame them, at 7,25$/gallon I understand.

Where have you been and how did you like it? you seem to have been in a "slow part" of the country.... (j/k)

[Common]

Where have you been and how did you like it? you seem to have been in a "slow part" of the country.... (j/k)

I was in Hamburg(Blankenesen section for a few days) spelling(), Berlin(west), Bad SalSuflen, Leipzig, and I drove through a few other cities.

EDIT: See you're from Hamburg, how the hell do you afford that car there at 7.25$ a gallon?
Live on base as a soldier?

[hamburger68]

I was in Hamburg(Blankenesen section for a few days) spelling(), Berlin(west), Bad SalSuflen, Leipzig, and I drove through a few other cities.

EDIT: See you're from Hamburg, how the hell do you afford that car there at 7.25$ a gallon?
Live on base as a soldier?

blankenese, nice area at the river, old money! i live more city center, near central station.
and no, i'm german and my army service was 1988 - 89... i don't drive more than 10k miles a year, i see the gas money as some kind of luxury tax.
were you visiting just for fun or business?

[Common]

blankenese, nice area at the river, old money! i live more city center, near central station.
and no, i'm german and my army service was 1988 - 89... i don't drive more than 10k miles a year, i see the gas money as some kind of luxury tax.
were you visiting just for fun or business?

Visiting, I have family there and I might get a an apartment in Blankenesen(houses are bit too much, the ones I like anyway) esp after the Euro to Dollars conversion(yikes), or I might get a house in Bad Salsuflen, I loved that little place, it is too quiet for a young guy but I loved it anyway.

I talked to a guy with an 03/04 cobra that lives on base and pays gallon/ american gas prices and insurance, thought you might be that lucky.

[hamburger68]

Visiting, I have family there and I might get a an apartment in Blankenesen(houses are bit too much, the ones I like anyway) esp after the Euro to Dollars conversion(yikes), or I might get a house in Bad Salsuflen, I loved that little place, it is too quiet for a young guy but I loved it anyway.

I talked to a guy with an 03/04 cobra that lives on base and pays gallon/ american gas prices and insurance, thought you might be that lucky.

...wish i was, but then i had my fair share of the army, no more uniform for me.

[Common]

...wish i was, but then i had my fair share of the army, no more uniform for me.

Cheap gas is not worth it for sure.

Later!!!

[eautocad]

What a great thread. Good job guys, it sounds like this was an interesting topic.


If I had a choice, I would say 150mph with my family is only going to happen on a high speed train.


:D

:lastyear:

[LS16SPD]

I Crashed An 84 Camaro 6 Banger Into A Telephone Poll Doin About 103 Im Still Livin Long Live F Bodies

[001CamaroSS]

A lot of people are making big mistakes here. Logically, even a lot of german cars have governors, so are we talking about owning the car in the US or germany. The second mistake is saying for your family. You may not have noticed, but off the top of my head the only american sedan I would say operating at autobahn speeds are the 300C's, chargers and some caddys. I choose a cadillac! It's almost a pointless question anyways. If you said any car, I'd still choose american because I'd own a ZR1 for the price of a mercedes, be extremely comfortable and smoke the mercedes in every aspect of performance.

[random-strike]

corvette z06/zr1 & viper, the tag team europe owning duo.

i perfer both over any euro car.

lots of nice euro cars, but they are hyped.