best supercharger/procharger for...

[ram air ws6]

What's the best supercharger/procharger for a daily driven ls1. I have a 2002 ws6. Mods. are lid, k-n-N air filter, LT's, ORY-P, no cats, magnaflow exhaust, ls1 edit, cutout. I'm lookinf for something reliable that will also give me a lot of power throughout the rpm band. Thanks

[Tman]

I run a Vortech V9 Gtrim with aftercooler. Been very happy with it so far.
http://home.sc.rr.com/stage2/final.JPG

[Ed Blown Vert]

A Procharger would work. Check with Bob from EPP.

[JAMES RODRIGUEZ]

Procharger P1SC or D1SC will get the job done.

[Joel Nicewander]

Got a D1SC and am estatic about the performance.
(Sounds nice too.)

[BowTied]

I'm looking at the P1SC and the D1SC.

By the numbers Procharger gives, the P1SC is a hair better in the bang for buck dept.
The D1SC gives more HP of course.

Anyone know the change in gas mileage with a charger?

[Ed Blown Vert]

Just get the D1. I only bought the P1 because I have to deal with smog. And the P1 has a CARB number.

As for gas mileage, it will go down because your foot will be in it all the time. :zoom:

If you keep your foot out of it. Mileage will stay close to the same.

[Rajun151]

ProCharger P-1SC-1 all the way... Best bang for the buck.. Been driving with ProCharger for over 40K on my 02 WS6 T/A. No problems.. excellent performance.. Running over 500 HP at the rear.. Gets great gas mileage when I'm not getting into it.
Make sure you upgrade your injectors and if you really like to drag a lot then I would go with a 12 bolt rear.. And find a good programmer / tuner to make it all work right. I get 27 MPG on the freeway doing around 70 MPH.. Not bad.. ;)

[Ed Blown Vert]

Not as pretty

http://members.cox.net/blownz28/procharger/procharger2.jpg

[BowTied]

Good tuning for sure, I'd take it to F-Body in Charlotte...just a few miles away. (I'm an EE and have done some programming...so I'd eventually like to get some equipment that would allow me to control and tune the whole system.)

Ed,
I don't care about pretty where the power is supposed to be! I figure it's the wheel's job to be shiny!

1 thought I can't get out of my head...how the Hell can you hope to hook 500HP. I'm not more than 10 or 15HP over stock...and I'm still chirping going into 3rd at about 80mph. I have 275/40's on Z06 rims right now.

[BIG D's SS]

Damn That Vortec looks sweet as hell. Ed where is yours at down underneath?

[Ed Blown Vert]

Good tuning for sure, I'd take it to F-Body in Charlotte...just a few miles away. (I'm an EE and have done some programming...so I'd eventually like to get some equipment that would allow me to control and tune the whole system.)

Ed,
I don't care about pretty where the power is supposed to be! I figure it's the wheel's job to be shiny!

1 thought I can't get out of my head...how the Hell can you hope to hook 500HP. I'm not more than 10 or 15HP over stock...and I'm still chirping going into 3rd at about 80mph. I have 275/40's on Z06 rims right now.

I have to run ET Streets at the track to get hook at all. And I cannot spray out of the hole.

On the street I only run Nittos. And even with them I have to be careful. I can easily light them up at 40 mph.

[Ed Blown Vert]

Damn That Vortec looks sweet as hell. Ed where is yours at down underneath?

Yup, just in front of the alternator.

[Exotic Performance Plus]

Good tuning for sure, I'd take it to F-Body in Charlotte...just a few miles away. (I'm an EE and have done some programming...so I'd eventually like to get some equipment that would allow me to control and tune the whole system.)

Ed,
I don't care about pretty where the power is supposed to be! I figure it's the wheel's job to be shiny!

1 thought I can't get out of my head...how the Hell can you hope to hook 500HP. I'm not more than 10 or 15HP over stock...and I'm still chirping going into 3rd at about 80mph. I have 275/40's on Z06 rims right now.


Here is a list I compiled together for building an F Body into a very quick car


Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.

Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.

1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.

2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.

3. Moser 12 bolt - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine.

4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser 12 bolt with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain.

5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search on this forum for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.

At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.

6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.

7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.

8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.

9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.

10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.

11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.

12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.

13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.

14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Flowtech headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
Flowtech and Hooker ceramic coated headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The Flowtech headers are priced very competitively with PaceSetter headers, yet they install and fit much better. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers.
The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.

For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!

15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.

Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob

[Somebody09]

Just get the D1. I only bought the P1 because I have to deal with smog. And the P1 has a CARB number.

So wait, is it illegal to use the D1 in, say California, just because it doesn't have a carb number? If that's the case then I might have to stick with the P1 also. If not, then I'm quite sure the engine can be tuned lean enough to still be smog friendly.

-somebody

[Exotic Performance Plus]

So wait, is it illegal to use the D1 in, say California, just because it doesn't have a carb number? If that's the case then I might have to stick with the P1 also. If not, then I'm quite sure the engine can be tuned lean enough to still be smog friendly.

-somebody

If you live in California, then you better check to see if you can get away with the D-1SC or not. I have sold D-1SC's to customer's in Ca, and somehow they get away with it, bribery, perhaps... Bob

[Tobynine9]

If one had $6k he were going to dump into his stock engine, would he be better off getting good heads/cam installed or getting a charger installed?

[Ed Blown Vert]

If one had $6k he were going to dump into his stock engine, would he be better off getting good heads/cam installed or getting a charger installed?

If he has the money. I think the blower is the way to go. Idle and drives like stock till you get into boost. :zoom:

[Tobynine9]

I don't have that kinda money, by the way. Don't want to get jumped by some forum junkie in a dark alley.

[speedpusher]

If he has the money. I think the blower is the way to go. Idle and drives like stock till you get into boost. :zoom:

I agree. I'm saving my cash for a Vortech. Heard to many horror stories about the other guys. You can't beat the Vortech 50 State Legal kit here in CA. Otherwise the man will eventually catch up with you. Driveabilty on blower cars is great.

[stangslayer98]

the procharger looks cleaner in the engine bay,than the vortech

[rickyhaiber]

if you turbo your car you will crush all the prochargers, vortechs, or any supercharged one...who cares if itll be more work...if you dont want to put the work in dont do anything to the car.....and when youre done with the turbo youll be happier, so i say turbo....superchargers are so much more inefficient and on equal levels of boost the turbo will produce a lot more power than any supercharger if its properly sized for your engine it will not have any lag either.....
a supercharger only gradually dumps boost in...so it wont even reach full boost until the motor is at redline because the pully has to be spun to the max to reach max boost...
with a proper turbo it can reach FULL boost as early as 2500 RPM and you can upgrade so many more parts later down the road like the wastegates, boost controllers, etc...and make some big numbers
and not every LS1 has a turbo...it would be more unique and youll get much more power out of it in the end at equal levels of boost...
Just my honest opinion...

[mdion@bellsouth.net]

Does anyone have a D-1SC on a LS-1? Just installed one and it is very noisy at idle. Anyone have one?

[~redlinels1~]

Does anyone have a D-1SC on a LS-1? Just installed one and it is very noisy at idle. Anyone have one?
Every clip of a procharger I've heard is noisy at idle. A good way to quiet it down (from what I've been told) is upgrading to the SDCE tensioner. But take that with a grain of salt since I have no experience with it.

[Ed Blown Vert]

Does anyone have a D-1SC on a LS-1? Just installed one and it is very noisy at idle. Anyone have one?

They are normally a bit noisy. I actually like the whine. ;)

The SDCE will help the rattle. But the whine will still be there.

[fuelslut]

Can i do all this minus the clutch with an auto trany and get the same results? what would something like this run if it was professionally installed or done do it yourself? would i need a new after market torque converter?

[Ed Blown Vert]

You can run 8 pounds on a stock engine.

A4's don't have clutches, just torque converters.

The tuner kit is over $4k, the you need the supporting parts. Injectors, fuel pump. Tuning.

[FasstChevys]

if you turbo your car you will crush all the prochargers, vortechs, or any supercharged one...who cares if itll be more work...if you dont want to put the work in dont do anything to the car.....and when youre done with the turbo youll be happier, so i say turbo....superchargers are so much more inefficient and on equal levels of boost the turbo will produce a lot more power than any supercharger if its properly sized for your engine it will not have any lag either.....
a supercharger only gradually dumps boost in...so it wont even reach full boost until the motor is at redline because the pully has to be spun to the max to reach max boost...
with a proper turbo it can reach FULL boost as early as 2500 RPM and you can upgrade so many more parts later down the road like the wastegates, boost controllers, etc...and make some big numbers
and not every LS1 has a turbo...it would be more unique and youll get much more power out of it in the end at equal levels of boost...
Just my honest opinion...

and on a stock bottom end, if you exceed 500 rwhp, you're still f*cked! haha

[FasstChevys]

Can i do all this minus the clutch with an auto trany and get the same results? what would something like this run if it was professionally installed or done do it yourself? would i need a new after market torque converter?

I just noticed you're from Minneapolis, I'm about an hour from there. Welcome to the board. :thumbup:

[fuelslut]

i should have put that this question would be directed at EPP Bob

[fuelslut]

yeah well actually ive been in Mississippi for the last 3months Mobilizing for a 1 year tour in Iraq. so hopefully i can get some of the mods i want done before i come back. oh and as a note don't ever visit Mississippi if you get the chance. (no offense to anyone from MS)

[Exotic Performance Plus]

Can i do all this minus the clutch with an auto trany and get the same results? what would something like this run if it was professionally installed or done do it yourself? would i need a new after market torque converter?

Yes you can. The Camaro SS that we built has an automatic in it. You would need a built transmission, and a good converter. I recommend RPM Transmissions and Neal Chance for the converter. You can get 15k+ into the car real quickly on a project like the one we did. Bob

[FasstChevys]

yeah well actually ive been in Mississippi for the last 3months Mobilizing for a 1 year tour in Iraq. so hopefully i can get some of the mods i want done before i come back. oh and as a note don't ever visit Mississippi if you get the chance. (no offense to anyone from MS)

I've been to Mississippi...my best friend lived there for a while....it's definitely an experience. :)

[fuelslut]

OKAY MAYBE I SHOULD REPHRASE MY QUESTION... I AM LOOKING TO INVEST AROUND 5k and essentially looking for the most go for the money. 500rwhp at this point is honestly more than i know how to drive. i was hoping for something like 400-425rwhp to start with, but something that would leave me the ability to keep moding as more $ became available. Drivability is important. i guess there is alot more i could ask im still a novice at this but i really would like to do most of the work on my own car. u guess seem quite knowledgeable so i figured this would be a good place to start. so far i have Eibach springs, Wilwood front brakes( the 2 piece 13" 6piston caliper mothers) and new rims and rudder.

[rickyhaiber]

then just do your heads and get some cams put in with exhaust if you want 400 hp dumba$$...you dont need forced induction to do that....but if you want bigger numbers go with a Vorturd or PoorCharger like every one and their grandmother does....and if you want even better numbers go with a turbo...simple as that....none will end up being cheap so get a new hobby if thats what your worried about or dont go forced induction b/c its not cheap to make it work right and get it tuned right and still be reliable unless you have a lot of spare money that you can part with

[FasstChevys]

then just do your heads and get some cams put in with exhaust if you want 400 hp dumba$$...you dont need forced induction to do that....but if you want bigger numbers go with a Vorturd or PoorCharger like every one and their grandmother does....and if you want even better numbers go with a turbo...simple as that....none will end up being cheap so get a new hobby if thats what your worried about or dont go forced induction b/c its not cheap to make it work right and get it tuned right and still be reliable unless you have a lot of spare money that you can part with

It would be nice to see someone give an objective and honest opinion without namecalling. Would you install "some cams"? Or just one?

[baseballss]

lol i have 3 on mine, that was good. haha

[baseballss]

i was thinking of ducktaping an extra set of heads on my spoiler

[baseballss]

fuelslut, it sounds like to me you should go the full exhaust, head/cam route. you can get to 425 rwhp with the right set of heads and cam (tuned) while still maintaining pretty good driveability. Lt's, catback, lid, afr 205 heads, 224/224 cam, ls6 intake and get that bitch tuned and you will be happy and still really driveable. prolly between 390 and 430 depending on your car.

[Tobynine9]

i was thinking of ducktaping an extra set of heads on my spoiler

It works better if you use Gorilla Glue or an equivalent. I had extra heads ducktaped on my spoiler and on the drive shaft. The gains, along with a few extra cams, were spectacular for about 5k miles when the tape started to come loose. I re-attached everything with Gorilla glue and I'm pulling 692hp at the front wheels!!

[baseballss]

lol priceless!!!:lol:

[Tobynine9]

In all seriousness, I talked to the guys here in Houston at Motorsport Technologies and they said heads and cam are the most reliable way to get more power from an F-Body LS1. Apparently the Procharger systems require you to modify your cooling fan from a dual fan setup to a single fan setup. This forces the engine to run too hot so that even a 160 therm won't keep up. However, the next gen Prochargers for the C6 and other LS2 cars are supposed to be mucho better (like that does us any good). I don't know anything about Vortechs.

[Exotic Performance Plus]

In all seriousness, I talked to the guys here in Houston at Motorsport Technologies and they said heads and cam are the most reliable way to get more power from an F-Body LS1. Apparently the Procharger systems require you to modify your cooling fan from a dual fan setup to a single fan setup. This forces the engine to run too hot so that even a 160 therm won't keep up. However, the next gen Prochargers for the C6 and other LS2 cars are supposed to be mucho better (like that does us any good). I don't know anything about Vortechs.

Possibly down in Texas they have had heating problems with the ATI ProCharger F Body kit, but I have never had any problems up here in the midwest. I've had one on my own '99 Z28 for years, and never had any heating problems at all. Bob

[Tobynine9]

That would make sense. We get 90+ degree days for most of May through September.

[rickyhaiber]

baseballss....are you 16? the jokes suck, and you seem like some ignorant kid.... and your car is slow! so i would stop making the corny jokes...and i dont care how many cams an ls1 has, it could have 10 for all i care whats the difference in 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 cams in an ls1? itll still be eating my sh!t for breakfast....my point was that if he only wants that much HP then cam(s) along with a set of heads should be able to accomplish that...didnt mean to call anyone names, just throwing my opinion out there....and before you all start typing away madly at your desk in anger, unless you have A LOT more than 1000HP you wont touch me..... :slash:

look up what a built, low compression 351W with an 88mm turbo will do at 29 psi.....and then talk sh!t to me with your busted ls1 cause it sure doesnt look good....and if you push over 1000HP ill just have to turn the boost up a tad more...and my back bumper looks good....im sure you all would agree :drivin:

later, fellas

[rickyhaiber]

and take all your Vorturds and PoorChargers and you can throw them away b/c those inefficient belt driven, out dated turds are no good!

you could all do yourselves a favor and just take your cars, pour gasoline all over it, drive it to the middle of an open parking lot, and light it on fire so that it will hopefully burn the entire ugly thing that you call a camaro or trans am (respect for the corvettes, though) but camaros and trans ams are for trashy rednecks who have small d!cks and think it will make up for it.....peace you trashy mothas!

and next time you drive your car think about how stupid it looks when other people look at them....oh man, ugly F-Bodies with your too long hoods and gay flip up headlights, or those goofy looking long & skinny camaros that have no real shape to them

and betcha cant count how many unnecessary, ugly curves or scoops there are on a trans am...can ya? HAHA

[Tobynine9]

Did your daddy play with you inappropriately as a child or something? You've got issues man.

Nobody wants to touch you anyways. Get over yourself.

[Tobynine9]

camaros and trans ams are for trashy rednecks who have small d!cks and think it will make up for it.....peace you trashy mothas!


Besides, if driving a Camaro makes me a trashy redneck with a little dick, what does your car make you? So far, you're the only who's done any boasting on this thread.

[FasstChevys]

Besides, if driving a Camaro makes me a trashy redneck with a little dick, what does your car make you? So far, you're the only who's done any boasting on this thread.

I'm sure he has 1000 horsepower too. :lol: 29 psi!!!??? Who are you trying to fool??? Obviously yourself. That's the best one I've heard all week! :rotfl:

[FasstChevys]

It's time for the :lock:

[topgun1851]

In all seriousness, I talked to the guys here in Houston at Motorsport Technologies and they said heads and cam are the most reliable way to get more power from an F-Body LS1. Apparently the Procharger systems require you to modify your cooling fan from a dual fan setup to a single fan setup. This forces the engine to run too hot so that even a 160 therm won't keep up. However, the next gen Prochargers for the C6 and other LS2 cars are supposed to be mucho better (like that does us any good). I don't know anything about Vortechs.

I live in Corpus Christi (almost as far south you can get in the USofA) with a 9psi P1SC procharger kit on my everyday driving WS6. Yeah, the fan kicks on alot during the summer time, but it NEVER has gone above 200. Yes, i do have the 160 thermostat. So, in my opinion, the single fan option works great. Keep in mind, the single fan has a much larger diameter than the two smaller diameter stock setup. i didnt do any measurements, but im sure the surface areas of the sucking sections of the stock and new fan setups are very close.