What engine upgrades are needed for Procharger...

[HiLL99SS]

I am looking at gettin a Procharger kit...Im kinda new to the whole forced induction thing...I was just wondering what kind of engine upgrade are usually needed when going to this kind of kit. I dont have any aftermarket internals, mainly just all your basic bolt-ons...I figured some fuel injectors and maybe a fuel pump...

If you have any infor or suggestions...Id like to hear em..thanks fellas

[HiLL99SS]

Also if there are some suggested upgrades...could you include the brand name and maybe where to get the products at...thanks

[HiLL99SS]

anyone?

[Hark_Z]

Maybe some hardened push rods and dish pistons for more strength..

[Ed Blown Vert]

Bob @ EPP can help you out.

But injectors, fuel pump and tuning are a must.

[walterchang]

Spend the money and get a forged bottom end, at least con rods, and pistons. I'd get a cam shaft too.

[lt4ever]

I agree. However, you won't need a forged bottom end right away. I've heard that so long as you don't go crazy on the psi, and keep the power numbers under 500 at the crank (but what fun is that!?) then you won't need a forged bottom end. If you plan on pushing more power than that at the crank, then you'd be wise to get a forged bottom end. Probably take you a year or so to break a rod or spin a bearing or crack a wrist pin or break a piston ring. THen you've got even bigger problems

[lt4ever]

I like Eagle cuz they're inexpensive and reliable, plus I think they're the only after market manufacturer that is USA made... if that even matters any more. Just have the rods measured, weighed and checked by a reputable machine shop and have them balance the rods with the correct weight pistons and wrist pins. I bought a forged stroker crank and forged connecting rods from Eagle and aluminum pistons from JE Pistons.

[FasstChevys]

Bob @ EPP can help you out.

But injectors, fuel pump and tuning are a must.

Bob is THE man when it comes to this, he'll steer you in the right direction!

[Exotic Performance Plus]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it! Here is something that I put together that might help answer a few questions. Item 15 will answer the ProCharger item requirements. Bob


Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.

Everyone has their opinions on what is the best package, and here is mine.

1. Subframe Connectors - Absolutely necessary to keep your F Body from twisting and stretching. I have seen too many of these cars lose their door to fender gaps from having gone too long without subframe connectors. Subframe connectors will make the car handle better, you'll get fewer squeaks and the car will get better traction.

2. Torque Arm - BMR, Global West and Spohn all make torque arms that relocate the front mount off of the transmission by relocating the front mount back behind the transmission. The relocation of the front mount relieves the stress from the tailshaft of the transmission that the torque arm places on it, as a result of trying to contain the rear-end and it's rotational stresses. The stock torque arm is a stamped piece of sheetmetal that has broken apart for many people, and it sometimes takes out the driveshaft with it when it goes. By relocating the front mount of the torque arm behind the transmission, the geometry of the rear suspension becomes much better and really aids in hooking up the rear suspension. While replacing the torque arm, check the transmission mount, as the stock torque arm places a huge load on the mount, and the mount breaks quite often when using the factory torque arm. The adjustability of these aftermarket torque arms allows the user to adjust the pinion angle of the rear suspension which aids in finding traction.

3. Moser 12 bolt - Sooner or later the weak 7.5" Chevy S-10 derived 10 bolt is going to break. I wouldn't waste any money into attempting to build up the 10 bolt, it just doesn't work. There isn't one strong point to the stocker. For those of you with a six speed transmission, the 10 bolt has broken on many M6 cars with stock power. Expect the worse to happen... 3:73 gears in the Moser rear-end is a good compromise, especially when adding a lot of power to the engine.

4. Driveshaft - The stock GM driveshaft have broken for many enthusiast, both the steel and the 3.0" aluminum GM driveshafts are fairly weak. I recommend an aftermarket 3.5" aluminum driveshaft with a 1350 Yoke with a 1350 U Joint. Combined with the Moser 12 bolt with their supplied 1350 yoke, you will have a strong drivetrain.

5. Clutch and pressure plate - I recommend the Spec Stage 3 clutch and pressure plate. Expect some chatter for the first 500 miles, then it will be pretty smooth. I would also add the '01-'02 slave cylinder for the older models, and do the "drill mod" to the master cylinder. Do a search on this forum for the drill mod, and you will see what it entails.

At this point I believe the suspension is capable off supporting a lot of horsepower, and you can go straight to item 14.
For those of you who are dragstrip bound, I would also add a few additional items.

6. Adjustable lower control arms - The aftermarket lower control arms are much stouter, and will not flex like the factory lower control arms. Going with adjustable ones will allow the user to center the rear end in the wheelwell. The stock rear end position from the factory tends to be .5" towards the rear of the car. You really won't notice it until larger diameter tires are installed.

7. Lower control arm relocation brackets - Lower control arm relocation brackets are meant to be used when the car has been lowered, which alters the angle of the lower control arms. We have found that the relocation brackets also help in getting traction in non lowered cars. We use the weld on style that BMR offers.

8. Panhard bar - The factory pan hard bar is pretty flimsy and additional traction can be found by replacing the factory pan hard bar with a heavier duty aftermarket bar. The rear in these cars tends to sit closer to the right side, and by purchasing an adjustable pan hard bar, the rear-end can be centered in the body.

9. Strut Tower Brace - Eliminate flexing in the front end by adding an aftermarket strut tower brace. You will also notice that the car will handle better with a strut tower brace.

10. Battery box relocation - By relocating the battery to the trunk, you will remove a lot of weight off the front of the car and place the weight behind the rear-end, where it will aid in traction. The car will also be able to handle better with the weight relocation.

11. Rear coil spring air bags - By experimenting with adding more air to the right air bag than to the left one, better off the line traction can be found.

12. Adjustable shocks and front coil over springs - We use the Hal QA1 12 way adjustable shocks on our cars. It is easy to adjust these shocks for street use, and then readjust them for strip use by simply rotating the 12 way adjustable dial. The Hal QA1 front coil over springs allows the front end height to easily be adjusted.

13. K member - By replacing the front K member and upper and lower control arms with light weight aftermarket tubular ones, a lot of weight is removed from the front suspension. Since front end weight is removed, better off the line traction and better handling will occur. We have had good success with the BMR parts, and combined with the Hal QA1 shocks and coil over front springs, gives the car a much better chance of getting traction on the starting line.

14. Headers and cat back exhaust - Everyone has their favorites, but we have grown very fond of Hooker and Flowtech headers, and the Hooker and Magnaflow Cat Back exhaust systems.
Flowtech and Hooker ceramic coated headers fit very well, with excellent ground clearance. The Flowtech headers are priced very competitively with PaceSetter headers, yet they install and fit much better. The ceramic coatings go a long way towards keeping the exhaust temps in the pipes, keeping the engine bay cooler and improving internal exhaust scavenging. These two brands of headers will give you 2.5" more in ground clearance compared to SLP headers.
The Hooker and Magnaflow cat back exhaust systems give these cars a good muscular sound that will not drown out your stereo while driving down the road. The exhaust tubing is larger than the stock tubing and is mandrel bent, for better exhaust flow.

For those of you who want it loud. If you are looking for an exhaust system that will annoy everyone around you, the two above exhaust systems are not for you. The SLP "Loud Mouth" cat back is a good system for those of you who want to be noticed. When we have one of these cars on my dyno with a loud mouth exhaust system, everyone around our area can hear the car!

15. ATI ProCharger D-1SC eight rib supercharger - Simply the best and easiest way to get 450 to 500 rwhp out of your car in my opinion, when combined with headers and a good cat back exhaust system. The car will still see great part throttle gas mileage, overall driveability will still be excellent, and the power is always there when you want it. At 8 pounds of boost, the car will be very dependable, and with the twin high flow air to air intercoolers, unleaded premium is all you need to use. I recommend the ATI ProCharger D-1SC "tuner" kit, as the D-1SC can handle future mods much better than the P-1SC. You will need 42 lb fuel injectors, a 255 litre in tank fuel pump, and chassis dyno tuning with the "tuner" kit.

Hopefully this list will help you in your quest for having a quick car! Bob






Over 500 hp out the door, and will still get great gas mileage!

Our standard 8 psi system for $7,499.99.00 includes:

ATI ProCharger D-1SC 8 rib supercharger with (new for '05) larger 4.5" twin high-flow intercooler system
LS1 Edit programming and tuning on our Mustang Chassis Dyno
Ford SVO 42lb fuel injectors
Holley/Walbro 340 in tank forced induction fuel pump with in-tank modifications
Spark plugs for forced induction

Also Includes ATI Performance Products Harmonic Balancer, which is required for the 8 rib belt assembly


Includes our dyno computer tuning and complete print-outs

The D1SC supercharger system carries a 1-year warranty from ATI.

[stangslayer98]

does 7499.00 include installation:shots:

[Exotic Performance Plus]

does 7499.00 include installation:shots:

Yes it includes installation, tuned, everything. Thanks for inquiring. Bob

[ninobrn99]

Bob can u pm me the price for the P1sc for a ls1 fbody. I have 42# injectors already so I wont need those. Just wanna see if I can afford that and a 9" :xfingers:

[Exotic Performance Plus]

Bob can u pm me the price for the P1sc for a ls1 fbody. I have 42# injectors already so I wont need those. Just wanna see if I can afford that and a 9" :xfingers:

I can't put my low ATI pricing in any form of print. You'll have to call me for a quote. 260 244-4808 Bob Thanks for inquiring!

[ninobrn99]

k.

[Ed Blown Vert]

Bob can u pm me the price for the P1sc for a ls1 fbody. I have 42# injectors already so I wont need those. Just wanna see if I can afford that and a 9" :xfingers:

Maybe I should pay for your D1 upgrade and trade you my P1 plus some $$$ :think:

[WTF]

Wow, bob just described the setup he did for me. Minus suspension work. I have items 1,2,3,4,5,9,14, an 15. Bob knows what he is doing and he will ALWAYS treat you right. I know that from experience. The only difference is I did my bottom end also. Getting in touch with EPP is the direction you want to go.
vincent

[~redlinels1~]

EPP has some awesome deals. I really like his price for pulling the motor, building it, reinstalling it, and tuning it.

*wonders how much it would cost to ship him my car*:thinkin:

[ninobrn99]

Maybe I should pay for your D1 upgrade and trade you my P1 plus some $$$ :think:
how much will the come out to for me out of pocket?? I think im gonna get my 9" first, then when i get back do the S/C if I have enough, if not then a dual stage NX kit ;) 50/100 (sound familiar??) :lol:

[TT-FRC]

Motor wise all you need (provided your existing LS1 is in good working order) is cooler burning spark plugs (NGK TR6's work nicely).

If you're keeping the stock heads and cam you may not even have to upgrade the valve springs (some cars need it - some don't).

[Exotic Performance Plus]

Wow, bob just described the setup he did for me. Minus suspension work. I have items 1,2,3,4,5,9,14, an 15. Bob knows what he is doing and he will ALWAYS treat you right. I know that from experience. The only difference is I did my bottom end also. Getting in touch with EPP is the direction you want to go.
vincent

Thanks Vincent! Have a great New Year! I had a talk with Brent and Chip about their relationship... lol Bob

[Exotic Performance Plus]

EPP has some awesome deals. I really like his price for pulling the motor, building it, reinstalling it, and tuning it.

*wonders how much it would cost to ship him my car*:thinkin:

Considering you wouldn't have to pay state sales tax on the parts if you shipped your car to us, it wouldn't be that expensive. Bob

[WTF]

Well Bob, I hope they don't kiss at the new year bell! Oh man, maybe I shouldn't visit for the big intercooler and smaller pulley. I might get beat to death. Might have to take my chances though. Have a good one.

[bulletz28]

Bob, I have D1SC on my 99 z28 w/ 7.5 psi af boost and making 472 rwhp. And I would like to gain more power, I'm thinking about upgrading my heads and cam. I want to go for AFR 205 or 225 combine w/ cam, how much more horses do you think I will get if I install this part. And do I need to forged my bottom end, if I do can use my stock block and just do the crank and pistons????

[joeytransam]

just a quick question realistically with the ati d 1sc kit if you only run 8- 10 psi how will your engine and overall car reliability suffer ? i have only 40k on my engine and would like to do an ati kit but am afraid it will ruin the reliability or just plain break am i justfied or just crazy please lemme know

[JAMES RODRIGUEZ]

just a quick question realistically with the ati d 1sc kit if you only run 8- 10 psi how will your engine and overall car reliability suffer ? i have only 40k on my engine and would like to do an ati kit but am afraid it will ruin the reliability or just plain break am i justfied or just crazy please lemme know


It will be fine. I am pushing over 500 rwhp. Have been at those numbers since Mar 2005. No issues to report.

[7camaro7]

I want one! Lets see how much cash I can get together within a year.

[Rickys S/C Z28]

i love my prochagrer cant wait to get home and drive that bitch

[barnat]

Just Incase Guys,ive Gota Forged Ls2 Still In Bag At Mach.shop And A D1sc For Sell Under Parts For Sell Sect Can No Longer Finish Install Any Questions Call 724 869 9643 Thanks Ed

[maxpit]

How much boost can a stock LS1 handle without breaking?

[Ed Blown Vert]

About 8#

[boostedSS]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it! Here is something that I put together that might help answer a few questions. Item 15 will answer the ProCharger item requirements. Bob


Here is a list of items that I recently put together for building up the chassis prior to adding the horsepower. People are always asking the question of whether to go with a head and cam package, or go with a supercharger or turbocharger. There is no way you are to match the power of an ATI ProCharger with a head and cam package unless you use a pretty radical camshaft. Nitrous oxide could be used instead of going the forced induction route, with very good results at a fraction of the cost. A cold air kit would be required if you elect to use nitrous oxide instead of going the forced induction (ATI ProCharger) route. The ATI ProChargers come with a K&N cone filter. With forced induction, such as the ATI ProCharger, the power is always going to be there when you want it, with no nitrous bottles to constantly refill. A turbocharger could be used instead of an ATI ProCharger, but I am not convinced that the turbo kits currently out on the market will stand the test of time. TurboChargers go through extreme heat cycles, which can fracture the turbo housing mounts.
With the items listed below, your car would be quite capable of routinely running low eleven second 1/4 mile times, or faster, when combined with the M/T Street radial rear tires.








Over 500 hp out the door, and will still get great gas mileage!

Our standard 8 psi system for $7,499.99.00 includes:

ATI ProCharger D-1SC 8 rib supercharger with (new for '05) larger 4.5" twin high-flow intercooler system
LS1 Edit programming and tuning on our Mustang Chassis Dyno
Ford SVO 42lb fuel injectors
Holley/Walbro 340 in tank forced induction fuel pump with in-tank modifications
Spark plugs for forced induction

Also Includes ATI Performance Products Harmonic Balancer, which is required for the 8 rib belt assembly


Includes our dyno computer tuning and complete print-outs

The D1SC supercharger system carries a 1-year warranty from ATI.

Amen to that post.I was running The p1sc with heads, cam, and full suspension mods and it was an animal!
Not only can you get the exhaust to be loud and noticable, but the blower too. I had my p1sc with the loud cut impeller and was spinning it at around 62000 rpm.It was loud and sounded sick!
The price for the package you offered is pretty damn good. You sound like a pretty fair shop.
If was looking for a procharger install i'd jump all over that.

[Rickys S/C Z28]

bob is the man!!!!

[JeremyRay]

Bob of EPP, thanks for the input. New to the Ls1 scene and wondered how much horse power would the D1SC(with all necessary mods) make on stock Ls1 engine. I would like to do my home work before I drop some serious cash. That will not be the only mod I perform, a complete exhaust, complete brakes and suspension, and an MSD coil pack. I want to build a 500rwhp street car that handles exceptionally well. Any advice or experience you can share would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[lw.jordan]

why would you want cooler burning plugs on a forced induction system? ive been wondering what type of plugs to replace mine with(twin turbo system in the works) that will work the best.
also, anyone heard of using 02+ gm truck headers to face forward instead of backward(for turbos)?

[Semperfiws6]

I like Eagle cuz they're inexpensive and reliable, plus I think they're the only after market manufacturer that is USA made... if that even matters any more. Just have the rods measured, weighed and checked by a reputable machine shop and have them balance the rods with the correct weight pistons and wrist pins. I bought a forged stroker crank and forged connecting rods from Eagle and aluminum pistons from JE Pistons.

it still matters to some of us. :Patriot:

[kirikos65]

I would highly recommend a meth. injection kit like alkycontrol.I have it along with a procharger kit.I also know of a vet that runs consistent mid to low 10's with a paxton that has a completely stock bottom end, ECS blower cam and tune ,ad he has over 300 passes on that motor.

[vaticano]

it still matters to some of us. :Patriot:

+1 on that. who needs meth anymore just switch to E-85.

[SVG210]

Yes it includes installation, tuned, everything. Thanks for inquiring. Bob

wow choices choices I dont know what grrr :brick:

your price is reasonable and you said it yourself reliable, where are you located?

btw Aps twin turbos 10,000 installed and tuned. but too much heat.

[ApexVIII]

i would recommend heads/ cam for the power to price ratio!

[adam0321]

ok so what is the difference between a turbo charger and a super charger? and what is better to combine with heads/cam package and poss no2

[chad35]

i just got an 05 c6 vette i got long tube headers and im wanting to put a ati procharger on it with 6psi,will the stock bottom end handle this?and what kind rwhp numbers do you think this will make thanks guys

[vaticano]

i just got an 05 c6 vette i got long tube headers and im wanting to put a ati procharger on it with 6psi,will the stock bottom end handle this?and what kind rwhp numbers do you think this will make thanks guys

It really depends on your driving habits. But in general yes it will be fine.

[camarossowner]

My 2002 ss camaro has a ati- procharger P-1sc on it with 7 psi using a 3.2 pulley to keep me at full 7 psi on a stock motor with over 30000 miles. no motor issues as of yet. I did add long tube headers with complete 3 inch cat less exhaust to a spin tech muffler and have over 500 horses to the rear tires. But, i do use the high end motor oil and change engine oil every 3000 miles and change out the sc oil every 6000 miles too.:hyper: :hyper:

[vaticano]

Are you using the stock ATI air filter? I switched mine for a larger filter and picked up 2 psi. I have a D1SC so I'm not familar with P1 but with a 3.2 inch pulley I would expect a few more psi. With the bigger filter you have less restriction and less drag on the motor.

[camarossowner]

Are you using the stock ATI air filter? I switched mine for a larger filter and picked up 2 psi. I have a D1SC so I'm not familar with P1 but with a 3.2 inch pulley I would expect a few more psi. With the bigger filter you have less restriction and less drag on the motor.

With the 3.2 pulley it helped gain back the boost I lost due to no cat's and adding headers. So, I'm guessing my boost is about 8 psi at full throttle. I may try the bigger filter if there is room for it.:nana:

[SouthernBornThriller]

ok so what is the difference between a turbo charger and a super charger? and what is better to combine with heads/cam package and poss no2

Turbocharger = Mounts into your exhaust system to increase airflow (therefore, power)

Supercharger = Mounts to your engine itself and forces more air into the engine, thus increasing flow.

Basically, one's in front, ones out back.

Best, would pretty obviously be having a supercharger on the motor, then a pair of turbos on the back...but that pretty much requires a whole new engine to handle the power, too many mods to list, and well...it just isn't done on street cars too often.

But as for the Turbo vs. Supercharger debate...that's been going on for decades. I don't have enough experience with both to provide an educated opinion on the level with a lot of others in this forum. However, there is an entire thread devoted to that debate floating around here somewhere.

[35th-ANV-SS]

He is right in regards to about a 70 page forum on here debating between the two. Read this article for a very basic overview.

http://www.superchargersonline.com/content.asp?ID=19

I am in the works for saving up for a ProCharger D-1SC myself.

[MR NOS]

ok i think the ProCharger is the best supercharger out there but i want to know which kind is the best ?!?! sorry guys but i don't have alot info about ProChargers that's why i'm asking ...... like ! which one gives you alot of psi ? which one is the strogest