Cobra's Wow!

[camarojunky74]

okay ive always known that the cobra was a pretty sick street car capable of 500rwhp, but shit i went on one of those forums and everyone had atleast 500hp, and they were complaining of this "low #'s" i was like .... FU*k:brick: those cars are pretty sick! but i still like mine morehahaha

[ZAPFOOL!!]

and here I am wanting 400 rwhp

[predator]

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a244/predator1082/misc/NewEdgevsTerminator.jpg

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

Yep pretty sickening that 2 mods (pulley and exhaust) can put them close to that mark.

[AKIRA]

I really thought of getting one, but with me going to college, I cant afford that shit. How are their mpgs?

[camarojunky74]

i am guessing if they dont lay into the boost they can see 15mpg at least, and yeagh when i was almost done with uti, i was in power and performance classes this bran new student got a 04 for getting good grades or some shit, we put that on the dyno, all it had was a pulley, chip and exhaust and he put down 487hp, which wasnt bad at all! i was like fu*k.... my 74 camaro that ive worked on for god nows how long only does 303 hp to the wheels, i was amazed and upset llol, cause i hate mustangs, HATE THEM

[predator]

i have considered one for a while, but insurance on them is OUTRAGEOUS!!!!

A buddy of mine has a 99 (non supercharged) and his insurance is more than mine on the vette... We carry the same coverage and i have a wreck in my history...

-me

[AFASTYZFR1]

give a camaro same boost and it will rape a stang....trust me

[predator]

first off... give a camaro the same boost and youll blow it to peices... secondly... to tell you the truth i think the head design might actually have us beat..

4 valve > 2 valve.... especially when it comes to boost...

-me

[ZAPFOOL!!]

give a camaro same boost and it will rape a stang....trust me

counter agrument......give the cobra the same displacement

[rajiv1998]

Cobras are pretty fucking sick. If for some insane reason i was looking to sell my car and 04 cobra wood be at the very top of my list

[Black R/A]

There's a thread on one of the Mustang sites of all the '03-04 Cobras that have blown up. There's hundreds of them. Most of them only had a pulley. It's all good until one of the injectors malfunctions and KABOOM. I know it looks good and it feels good, but at sustained high speeds they are at risk. Now you're going to have Mustang lovers here any second saying it's all not true and they've driven x-thousand miles with no problems, but it is a fact that they are at higher risk of blowing up when boosted.

It only takes a few seconds of a lean condition to cause severe engine damage.

[JayplaySS2]

Cobras can take 20lbs easy with good tunes. The only reason for failures are when you add something different such as the slightest boost with a hot day and ANY engine will detonate and go south. Lot of guys dont even have AFR guages.
Run around 18-19lbs and a healthy tune and you will have 630+rwhp all year long.

Or get a Modded C6 Z06 and dont worry about anything on the street.
It is not easy balancing any FI engine, LSX included.

[predator]

usually the #7 cylinder isnt it...

and under boost you gotta watch your tune... alot of cobra owners throw on pulley and exhaust and make power... but it of my opinion that those generic tunes they throw on cars with had held tuners just arent fine tuned enough to keep your car safe...

its quick and easy to not go have a car tuned by ppl that know what they are doing... and then BOOM...

-me

[blue02Z]

yeah, over on svtperformance on their kill stories they all talk about killing modded zo6's and vipers-damn!!

[camarojunky74]

personally, i would never own one, just because its still a mustang... BUT i think that svt did right with that car! i drive a low 13 to a high 12 car right now on street tires, and for the most part i have beaten any svt thats rolled thru my town lightly modded, but i also have be raped by like 3-4 cars on one race and all he had was... well you know pulley exhaust and chip!

and for the whole blowing up thing>> anytime you make more boost than stock you run a risk of blowing it up dont matter if you ran lean, or the motor can handle all the timing its been givin, but from the factory to get a 600 rwhp capable machine is pretty sick.

but like i always tell my friends give me a blower, some good heads and than we will see, having more displacment is a huge advantage and it always will be.

[JayplaySS2]

personally, i would never own one, just because its still a mustang... BUT i think that svt did right with that car! i drive a low 13 to a high 12 car right now on street tires, and for the most part i have beaten any svt thats rolled thru my town lightly modded, but i also have be raped by like 3-4 cars on one race and all he had was... well you know pulley exhaust and chip!

and for the whole blowing up thing>> anytime you make more boost than stock you run a risk of blowing it up dont matter if you ran lean, or the motor can handle all the timing its been givin, but from the factory to get a 600 rwhp capable machine is pretty sick.

but like i always tell my friends give me a blower, some good heads and than we will see, having more displacment is a huge advantage and it always will be.

Thats what my buddy with a soon the be Procharged 2000 Z28 says. I will be installing it as well as his FAST intake and a 75 shot then I will be walking him too. All in good fun though. So you need a Supercharger AND a good set of heads AND larger displacement to run with my little 281? :eek2:

Now with the 2.8H KB's and 3.4 Whipples we are at 700+RWHP. Glad I sold my 99 SS when it was still worth something. It took me less time to install my KB than than it did to install LT's and Y-pipe on my LS1! Thats what you call a bolt on boys.

[camarojunky74]

Thats what my buddy with a soon the be Procharged 2000 Z28 says. I will be installing it as well as his FAST intake and a 75 shot then I will be walking him too. All in good fun though. So you need a Supercharger AND a good set of heads AND larger displacement to run with my little 281? :eek2:

Now with the 2.8H KB's and 3.4 Whipples we are at 700+RWHP. Glad I sold my 99 SS when it was still worth something. It took me less time to install my KB than than it did to install LT's and Y-pipe on my LS1! Thats what you call a bolt on boys.

well we really dont need heads, but to do it right you SHOULD lower your compression ratio, but if you look at it this way, yeah an ls1 does have 65 more cubic inches, but despite having pretty good flowing heads stock and a good intake, there is only so much air to be let in by 1 valve, and the same to be let out, then svt put a blower on there and all of a sudden a little 281 isnt so little in the amount of air and fuel coming in and out!

your 32 valve engine is basically a similar desighn to the cosworth engine from way back when placed into the formula 1 cars, DOHC and a blower combined with 32 valve v8 =86hp per litre, that is me assuming a stock 32 valve has 400hp which is the same as an ls1 stock, both at the crank of course. a ls1 is around 80 hp per litre without the blower or the dohc 32 valve.

and yes after you bolted on a kb blower we do need this to run with you guys, but stock for stock its a pretty good race imo, i have taken a few and lost to a few all in fun like you said, but the camaro mustang rivalry lives on. :nana:

[JayplaySS2]

well we really dont need heads, but to do it right you SHOULD lower your compression ratio, but if you look at it this way, yeah an ls1 does have 65 more cubic inches, but despite having pretty good flowing heads stock and a good intake, there is only so much air to be let in by 1 valve, and the same to be let out, then svt put a blower on there and all of a sudden a little 281 isnt so little in the amount of air and fuel coming in and out!

your 32 valve engine is basically a similar desighn to the cosworth engine from way back when placed into the formula 1 cars, DOHC and a blower combined with 32 valve v8 =86hp per litre, that is me assuming a stock 32 valve has 400hp which is the same as an ls1 stock, both at the crank of course. a ls1 is around 80 hp per litre without the blower or the dohc 32 valve.

and yes after you bolted on a kb blower we do need this to run with you guys, but stock for stock its a pretty good race imo, i have taken a few and lost to a few all in fun like you said, but the camaro mustang rivalry lives on. :nana:


I really think you have the most honest down to earth post Ive read in a long time. Serriously. As always, competition is a good motivator for innovation.
When you consider 650rwhp (780-800bhp @15% DT loss) on pump gas now youre looking at 171.7hp per litre! Thats damn impressive no matter what pump gas engine it is in my opionon.

[slims00ls1z28]

So you need a Supercharger AND a good set of heads AND larger displacement to run with my little 281?

Technically not you have a 4.6L engine with an added 2.8L so yours equals out to the displacement of roughly 7.4L :P

I'm all for the competition putting down real HP numbers and not puny ones that way I know the other side will have to up the antee.

[predator]

Technically not you have a 4.6L engine with an added 2.8L so yours equals out to the displacement of roughly 7.4L :P

WHAT?

Suppose the super charger is pushing around 15 psi... that would simply mean he has roughly 16:1 final compression ratio...

-me

[secondgearscratch]

now i really hate getting into this argument but the force is pulling me towards it...

as far as jayplay goes, i have read your posts, and its pretty obvious that you think you can walk anybody. i just wanted to say...good for you.

the age old argument is tiresome. i love cobras, but i love my f body and i am gm faithful.

cobra guys love to exploit the fact that they have a 281 vs. a 346.

the lsx guys love to say they dont have the benefit of boost.

the way i see it, a cobra is only king, respectively, if it keeps the factory blower. how is it fair to bag on ls1s with a 2.4 l kb twin screw that wont fit in an f body. i am deathly certain that a c5 with similar compression and even a comparable blower to the stock cobra unit would walk the kb terminator. put the kb on the lsx, say good night.

and i totally hear the cobra argument. too bad, we're boosted. thats certainly true.

the problem is that if you compare the performance of your beloved modular in natural form, it is nowhere near as powerful and fast as an ls1 in an f body. yes i understand that the ls1 has more cubes, so as you'd say, too bad.

the other bitch i have is this: the cobra was BUILT FOR BOOST. meaning that under a factory warranty you have a supercharger and supporting mods and it runs safely and efficiently. GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

being that a 346 is much bigger cubes, if i built an 8 and half to one motor i would not only be wearing out a cobra but doing so with less boost.

all in all, i would love a cobra. hell, in a few years i may trade up. but i will always have an lsx around because they are gritty.....:burnout:

[predator]

GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

CTS-V... and actually its more of an apples to apples kind of comparison... as would be a 5.4 to 5.7 ford to chevy comparison...

I mean look at an XLR-V... yes its expensive... atleast $50k more than a Cobra, but lets face it... a hard top Cadivette is just gonna cost more than a boosted economy pony car...

2004 CTS-V specs

4.4L DHOC Supercharged V8... I'll even hand some displacement to the Cobra...
440 HP and 415 ft-lb.... Hmmmmm not really swinging in fords direction...
0-60 in 4.6 seconds....
100 HP/L and 94 ft-bl/L

04 Cobra specs

4.6 DHOC Supercharged V8
390 hp and 390 Ft-lbs
0-60 in 4.5 seconds...
85 HP/L and 85 ft-lb/L

Motor to motor.... EASILY GM

Now how about a z06 vs a cobra R

2004 Z06

5.7 Pushrod V8
405 HP and 400 ft-lbs
0-60 in 4 seconds
71 HP/L and 70 ft-lbs/L

2000 cobra-R
5.4 Liter DOHC V8
385 HP and 385 Ft-Lb
0-60 in 4.5
71 HP/L and 71 ft-lbs/L

Ouch sorry its gotta go to the cobra when it comes to Motor... and had i used a 2000 comparible car it would have been more in favor of the Cobra R, but come on only 300 Cobra R's were created... and they were DOHC... I would excpect soooooo much more from them... if you compared it to a ford pushrod V8 it would have been a blow out...

-me

[Black R/A]

now i really hate getting into this argument but the force is pulling me towards it...

as far as jayplay goes, i have read your posts, and its pretty obvious that you think you can walk anybody. i just wanted to say...good for you.

the age old argument is tiresome. i love cobras, but i love my f body and i am gm faithful.

cobra guys love to exploit the fact that they have a 281 vs. a 346.

the lsx guys love to say they dont have the benefit of boost.

the way i see it, a cobra is only king, respectively, if it keeps the factory blower. how is it fair to bag on ls1s with a 2.4 l kb twin screw that wont fit in an f body. i am deathly certain that a c5 with similar compression and even a comparable blower to the stock cobra unit would walk the kb terminator. put the kb on the lsx, say good night.

and i totally hear the cobra argument. too bad, we're boosted. thats certainly true.

the problem is that if you compare the performance of your beloved modular in natural form, it is nowhere near as powerful and fast as an ls1 in an f body. yes i understand that the ls1 has more cubes, so as you'd say, too bad.

the other bitch i have is this: the cobra was BUILT FOR BOOST. meaning that under a factory warranty you have a supercharger and supporting mods and it runs safely and efficiently. GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

being that a 346 is much bigger cubes, if i built an 8 and half to one motor i would not only be wearing out a cobra but doing so with less boost.

all in all, i would love a cobra. hell, in a few years i may trade up. but i will always have an lsx around because they are gritty.....:burnout:


These arguments have been done over and over. I have to admit from a marketing standpoint the '03 Cobra was a good move. Even though they only sold about 20,000 of them the car is still a big deal with enthusiasts. It's key strength is ease of modability, because of a forged bottom end. Suffice to say that if you had an LS1, forged and blown, it would polish off the Cobra with ease. But there is no forged LS1 without $2500 in parts, $500 in machining and balancing costs and a three weekends in the garage with the tools to do it. Then there's the cost of a good blower to add. That's too much for most LS1 bolt-on owners who would rather go with a more simple heads and cam package. You'll win most races but not against the whipple charged Cobras.

Artificial aspiration is not for everyone. The noise of the dentist's drill can be annoying. But like the Turbo-Buick, the Cobra is a great performer, and as a car it's practical, unlike my Z06, which is pretty useless. I'll go for a new Camaro when it comes out for sure.

For all-out performance a Z07 factory engine is the shitz. Mod it and you're a potential 1000hp+. That's the way to go if you have a Camaro these days.

[Madcity T/A]

My neighbor has a 03 cobra 34 year old mom! She is good friends with my mom so I got to drive it. :yum: it was sweet. but it was really quite and I still think my WS6 is more fun to drive. when I get my H/C then we will have to race. O and she just got divorced so maybe I should hit that and get the car.:hitit:

[AKIRA]

Is she hot too?

[Madcity T/A]

she is ok. hey you got to make sacrifices for the car.
you know I think If she wa ever looking for another man she would have better luck going o the mustang forums then going to a dating site.

[HurricaneLS1]

Isn't the '03 Cobra faster by only .02-.04 in the 1/4 mile then the '02 SS stock with 50hp more ponies?

[secondgearscratch]

Isn't the '03 Cobra faster by only .02-.04 in the 1/4 mile then the '02 SS stock with 50hp more ponies?


a stock ss 6 speed could hit a 12.99 on street tires. cobras could hit 12.40s on street tires. these times arent necessarily the norm but the cobra is a good bit faster bone stock to bone stock. nothing a cam cant remedy.

the times i listed are all with relatively good 60 foots, which is difficult on street radials.

[slims00ls1z28]

WHAT?

Suppose the super charger is pushing around 15 psi... that would simply mean he has roughly 16:1 final compression ratio...

-me

What dont you understand? Where do you think the terms 2.8L or 221 CI blowers (different blowers one KB other Magnuson) come into play? It is the interior deminsions of the said superchargers in which the screws will force into the engine. Add more boost by spinning it faster adding 2.8 L of air even faster. Hence more PSI. Turbos and the other superchargers do the same thing but they are smaller and spin faster.

[predator]

What dont you understand? Where do you think the terms 2.8L or 221 CI blowers (different blowers one KB other Magnuson) come into play? It is the interior deminsions of the said superchargers in which the screws will force into the engine.

I dont understand where you equate that having a 2.8L supercharger equates to adding 2.8 Liters to the total displacment of the motor... how can you possibly assume that a 4.6L motor with a 2.8L super charger is the same as a 7.4 L motor?

Thats kinda like saying that having a 10 pound bottle of NOS is like having a turbo pushing 10 pounds... though the units kinda sound the same... they arent really the same...

and is it the internal volume (by this i mean the space inside minus the screws/roots, which is how you make it sound)? or is it the volume of air moved per revolution.... If that is the case... well then you have liters and liters/revolution... that is soooooo far from just being able to be added...

and by that logic your saying a 4L engine with a 2L SC pushing "X" psi is like a 6L motor and will produce about the same HP as a Nat Asp 6L motor... But the SAME engine with a 1L SC spinning twice as fast to push the same psi will only act like a 5L motor?

Dude seriously... sit down and read what you've said and see if it makes any sence....

-me

[JayplaySS2]

Calm down. I dont think I can walk everybody. My next car will be a C6 Z06 so I love GM just as much as the next guy. I also like Ford too though. I just give credit where it is due. The N/A 5.0 Cammer for the FR500 series car makes 535 hp (more than the Z06 with MUCH less displacement but a race motor) and the N/A 7.0l in the S7 makes 550 hp. They can build them when they need to. Blower was just easy. The XLR is rated at 440 and the Cobra is rated at 390. I am sure they are not correct either. The Cobra is closer to 440 due to 360-380rwhp in stock form corrected for 15% DT loss. I am confident the Caddy will not make 440bhp but who cares. So Ford does still win the MOD wars. LSX is the future platform and we all know it. No big deal. For the record, there are guys who crave MASSIVE power, like myself and would still need FI on the mighty LS7. When they put the LS7 into the Camaro (Katech I believe) it was still a turd. The Vette AND the LS7 make the ultimate combo.:nana:

[JayplaySS2]

I dont understand where you equate that having a 2.8L supercharger equates to adding 2.8 Liters to the total displacment of the motor... how can you possibly assume that a 4.6L motor with a 2.8L super charger is the same as a 7.4 L motor?

Thats kinda like saying that having a 10 pound bottle of NOS is like having a turbo pushing 10 pounds... though the units kinda sound the same... they arent really the same...

and is it the internal volume (by this i mean the space inside minus the screws/roots, which is how you make it sound)? or is it the volume of air moved per revolution.... If that is the case... well then you have liters and liters/revolution... that is soooooo far from just being able to be added...

and by that logic your saying a 4L engine with a 2L SC pushing "X" psi is like a 6L motor and will produce about the same HP as a Nat Asp 6L motor... But the SAME engine with a 1L SC spinning twice as fast to push the same psi will only act like a 5L motor?

Dude seriously... sit down and read what you've said and see if it makes any sence....

-me


I dont quite understand that argument either since boost is a measure of restriction and it varies. I just see it as a 4.6L 281ci engine with a blower.

[JayplaySS2]

now i really hate getting into this argument but the force is pulling me towards it...

as far as jayplay goes, i have read your posts, and its pretty obvious that you think you can walk anybody. i just wanted to say...good for you.

the age old argument is tiresome. i love cobras, but i love my f body and i am gm faithful.

cobra guys love to exploit the fact that they have a 281 vs. a 346.

the lsx guys love to say they dont have the benefit of boost.

the way i see it, a cobra is only king, respectively, if it keeps the factory blower. how is it fair to bag on ls1s with a 2.4 l kb twin screw that wont fit in an f body. i am deathly certain that a c5 with similar compression and even a comparable blower to the stock cobra unit would walk the kb terminator. put the kb on the lsx, say good night.

and i totally hear the cobra argument. too bad, we're boosted. thats certainly true.

the problem is that if you compare the performance of your beloved modular in natural form, it is nowhere near as powerful and fast as an ls1 in an f body. yes i understand that the ls1 has more cubes, so as you'd say, too bad.

the other bitch i have is this: the cobra was BUILT FOR BOOST. meaning that under a factory warranty you have a supercharger and supporting mods and it runs safely and efficiently. GM doesnt offer a boosted variant of any v8 model cars.

being that a 346 is much bigger cubes, if i built an 8 and half to one motor i would not only be wearing out a cobra but doing so with less boost.

all in all, i would love a cobra. hell, in a few years i may trade up. but i will always have an lsx around because they are gritty.....:burnout:


You dont know enough about LSX's. Here is a prime example. Here is your beloved LSX on a 6.0 LS2 with Forged internals and a KB. 700hp
http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_60700.htm

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JayplaySS/60700_1-1.jpg

Dude, the 281 Cobra motors can run 800-900hp with the KB. FYI.
This one made 900+
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JayplaySS/JEFFSENGINE2.jpg

Say good night huh? :D

How many LS1's have you built? I have personnaly built 6 and as we speak I am about to install a Procharger set up on a 2000 Z28. I am well aware of thier abilities. I have probably forgotten more about LSX's than you know.

[JayplaySS2]

Oh yea, hell of a bargin too! We can make that power with $5K in mods.
You have to buy a $20K engine. :lol:

[secondgearscratch]

Calm down. I dont think I can walk everybody. My next car will be a C6 Z06 so I love GM just as much as the next guy. I also like Ford too though. I just give credit where it is due. The N/A 5.0 Cammer for the FR500 series car makes 535 hp (more than the Z06 with MUCH less displacement but a race motor) and the N/A 7.0l in the S7 makes 550 hp. They can build them when they need to. Blower was just easy. The XLR is rated at 440 and the Cobra is rated at 390. I am sure they are not correct either. The Cobra is closer to 440 due to 360-380rwhp in stock form corrected for 15% DT loss. I am confident the Caddy will not make 440bhp but who cares. So Ford does still win the MOD wars. LSX is the future platform and we all know it. No big deal. For the record, there are guys who crave MASSIVE power, like myself and would still need FI on the mighty LS7. When they put the LS7 into the Camaro (Katech I believe) it was still a turd. The Vette AND the LS7 make the ultimate combo.:nana:

i know of one track test where gmpp put the ls7 into a z28 with longtube headers and blew out the transmission and wore out the clutch and it ran a 12 flat with all those problems.

youre point though makes no sense in the first place, because anyone knows that transplanting the ls7 into a heavier car than a vette probably means that said car wont be as fast as the vette.

the original point wasnt to show up the z06 with an ls7 f body, it was to show the ease of installation and the practicality for the home mechanic to do this swap through a kit. it was a marketing manuever at best. you can see the potential of any high horsepower motor in many platforms, the same can be said for an ls1 in a 68 camaro.

im not hyper, and i was merely pointing out the fact that in nearly every post you get in an argument and act arrogant . you dont need to be. i can read, i see where it says you have a cobra. automatically that makes your car faster than mine and many others. is that really the point though? if you wanna rep ford and shit on gm (like it seems you do) then do it else where as this is a gm based forum. i constantly get in arguments with ford haters on this website and tell them bashing is dumb and here you come with a ford product bashing gm.

i dont see how ford wins the mod war, but if thats what you think, ok. gm pony cars havent experienced the benefit of factory warrantied boost like some of the fords have, and i think its safe to assume that a 346 with 8.5:1 compression and forged internals would lay waste to any cobra product for the simple fact that it would have more cubes. but this isnt reality so why give a shit and why make excuses. cobras are fast, i like them, oh well.

i applaud you for owning a very bad ass car. honestly. but one of these days you may just lose. always someone with more money (which is what it really comes down to)

if ive misread you i apologize. i am sick of the gm/ford, cobra/f body bitching threads because alot of the arguments are retarded and then it turns into a flame war.

[secondgearscratch]

You dont know enough about LSX's. Here is a prime example. Here is your beloved LSX on a 6.0 LS2 with Forged internals and a KB. 700hp
http://turnkeyenginesupply.com/street_60700.htm

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JayplaySS/60700_1.jpg

Dude, the 281 Cobra motors can run 800-900hp with the KB. FYI.
This one made 900+
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f209/JayplaySS/JEFFSENGINE2.jpg

Say good night huh? :D

How many LS1's have you built? I have personnaly built 6 and as we speak I am about to install a Procharger set up on a 2000 Z28. I am well aware of thier abilities. I have probably forgotten more about LSX's than you know.

the one you have cited isnt the one i have continually cited, which puts down about 1200 hp conservatively
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa271/secondgearscratch/ls2402kennebell.jpg

i dont know how you honestly think that a 281 can make more power than a 346 built for boost, but ok. i know the modular motors love the boost, but you cant argue with shear cubes.

im sure youre more experienced than me, but that really has little to do with the basic theory that more cubes means more power, boost or no boost.

[JayplaySS2]

I would never think ANY 281 engine would make more power than 346 but EVERYBODY thinks they can just bolt on a S/C to an LS1 and lay waste to Cobras. Not true at all. My Z06 will have a single turbo and some spray.

Thats the 2.8H blower that I have too! Damn its sexy but way more difficult getting that to fit and work as easy as mine does. Youd need a 5" cowl just to fit it.

[JayplaySS2]

Im not fighting with you either. WHat I am sick of is guys with COMMENTS about Cobras who NEVER owned one. I have owned a highly modded LS1 and a highly modded Cobra.

There are a lot of Cobra experts that dont even have one or GOD forbid ever even driven one!

[secondgearscratch]

I would never think ANY 281 engine would make more power than 346 but EVERYBODY thinks they can just bolt on a S/C to an LS1 and lay waste to Cobras. Not true at all. My Z06 will have a single turbo and some spray.

i agree but im not one of those people man.

noobs and dipshits think its simple like you mentioned, but we're talking about alot of money shelled out for dished pistons, machining to get the right chamber size, new rings, new crank, basically the bottom half of the motor. not to mention a blower cam and appropriate flowing heads and intake manifold. lots and lots of tuning. intercooler and plumbing, coolant lines and things i have no earthly idea about.
it is never just a bolt on affair....even centrifugals need alittle tweaking here and there.

the main reason i love the cobra is its ease in regards to modification. look at the platform! thats why if i had one i wouldnt hesitate to put a kb on there. i rave about them daily.

forced induction will almost always be more reliable off the factory floor.

[secondgearscratch]

Im not fighting with you either. WHat I am sick of is guys with COMMENTS about Cobras who NEVER owned one. I have owned a highly modded LS1 and a highly modded Cobra.

There are a lot of Cobra experts that dont even have one or GOD forbid ever even driven one!

i only know of cobras because of people i know that own them (two neighbors) and my run ins with them racing and talking around.

i worked with a guy who was a ford mechanic and suffice to say i got a healthy earful everyday. if i wouldnt have listened, i probably would still hate ford and not realize alot of their potential. despite coming from a mustang owning family, i have always leaned toward gm.

but give me a 91 notch fox body or an 03 cobra any day of the week....

no fighting, just good debating. i like this kind of thing because i always learn a shit load.

:cheers: :)

[JayplaySS2]

i agree but im not one of those people man.

noobs and dipshits think its simple like you mentioned, but we're talking about alot of money shelled out for dished pistons, machining to get the right chamber size, new rings, new crank, basically the bottom half of the motor. not to mention a blower cam and appropriate flowing heads and intake manifold. lots and lots of tuning. intercooler and plumbing, coolant lines and things i have no earthly idea about.
it is never just a bolt on affair....even centrifugals need alittle tweaking here and there.

the main reason i love the cobra is its ease in regards to modification. look at the platform! thats why if i had one i wouldnt hesitate to put a kb on there. i rave about them daily.

forced induction will almost always be more reliable off the factory floor.

When I win the lottery Saturday, I will sell you my Cobra CHEAP. :zoom:

[secondgearscratch]

When I win the lottery Saturday, I will sell you my Cobra CHEAP. :zoom:

if you do you may as well pay for my funeral expensives when i die from cardiac arrest....:rotfl: :nana:

but id die a happy man!

[JayplaySS2]

if you do you may as well pay for my funeral expensives when i die from cardiac arrest....:rotfl: :nana:

but id die a happy man!


We will just burry you IN the Cobra! :ughlaugh:

[camarojunky74]

good argument both of you guys! i learned a lot and viewed opinions from both sides of the sprectum.

all in fun like i always say!

and i would aslo like to quote a very nice FIrst lady Eleanor Roosavelt who said
"America loves speed, hot nasty bad ass speed"
both the camaro and mustang bring the dream alive to so many people.
just kinda sucks for mustang guys cause camaros are so much better. lol jk

ahahahha

[secondgearscratch]

We will just burry you IN the Cobra! :ughlaugh:

good deal :zoom:

good argument both of you guys! i learned a lot and viewed opinions from both sides of the sprectum.

all in fun like i always say!

and i would aslo like to quote a very nice FIrst lady Eleanor Roosavelt who said
"America loves speed, hot nasty bad ass speed"
both the camaro and mustang bring the dream alive to so many people.
just kinda sucks for mustang guys cause camaros are so much better. lol jk

ahahahha

ladies and gentlemen....the devils advocate!!! :rotfl:

[JayplaySS2]

good argument both of you guys! i learned a lot and viewed opinions from both sides of the sprectum.

all in fun like i always say!

and i would aslo like to quote a very nice FIrst lady Eleanor Roosavelt who said
"America loves speed, hot nasty bad ass speed"
both the camaro and mustang bring the dream alive to so many people.
just kinda sucks for mustang guys cause camaros are so much better. lol jk

ahahahha

Yea, you never WIN an argument on the internet. Its like trying to take pee out of the pool! As long as educated people argue, we will learn. That is what Forums are for!:flex:

[slims00ls1z28]

I dont understand where you equate that having a 2.8L supercharger equates to adding 2.8 Liters to the total displacment of the motor... how can you possibly assume that a 4.6L motor with a 2.8L super charger is the same as a 7.4 L motor?

Thats kinda like saying that having a 10 pound bottle of NOS is like having a turbo pushing 10 pounds... though the units kinda sound the same... they arent really the same...

and is it the internal volume (by this i mean the space inside minus the screws/roots, which is how you make it sound)? or is it the volume of air moved per revolution.... If that is the case... well then you have liters and liters/revolution... that is soooooo far from just being able to be added...

and by that logic your saying a 4L engine with a 2L SC pushing "X" psi is like a 6L motor and will produce about the same HP as a Nat Asp 6L motor... But the SAME engine with a 1L SC spinning twice as fast to push the same psi will only act like a 5L motor?

Dude seriously... sit down and read what you've said and see if it makes any sence....

-me
Alright lets equate this first off by your last paragraph here its obvious you didn't even understand my post whatsoever.

Secondly don't get it twisted this is also not a knock on the Cobra or a SC motor I was taking on a twist on a slight technicality and trying to poke fun hence the ":P" at the end of the first post.

Thirdly I said nothing about a HP or that a 4L engine with a 2L sc will make the same hp as a N/A 6L go back to what I said and I said that technically a 4.6L with a 2.8L SC is roughly equivalent to 7.4L which is actually not its probabaly quite a bit more baseded specificaly on volumetric airflow.

Now lets break this down. I'll skip some of the simple stuff but basically a N/A engine uses the vacuum in its cylinders to fill the cylinders with air which is the main component of combustion on a combustion engine. A 350 CI engine would draw in 350 CI of air "IF" the heads intake and carb flowed at 100% efficiency which is impossible for numerous reasons based off head flow, valve lift, Compression etc so it is not drawing in anywhere near 350 CI but for arguments sake we'll say it has 350 CI of uncompressed air max period. A 454 etc or whatever else is the same.

Now lets take another 350 Ci Engine with a 200 CI roots blower.at 100 % efficiency we have 350 CI of air then the blower at 100% efficiency would put out 200 CI however the blower has roots which decreases the volume however it is spinning at a stepped rate at an unknown value so technically its pushing more than 200 CI but we are keeping it simple and just going to see how many CI of air we have 350 from the N/A engine and another 200 from the blower for a total of 550 CI from a single complete cycle of this engine in laymans terms.

In actuality it is completly different based on compression ratio's head flow valve lift etc so a 350 can never possibly draw in a full 350 CI per complete cycle but the difference is that the blower can force alot more so in a supertechnical sense even a 2.8L is pumping alot more than 2.8L even at very low boost. So technically speaking my argument holds water especially when dealing with volumetric airflow, and total cubic inches of the mechanisms use to move this air, even though I was just prodding in the first damn place.

[slims00ls1z28]

Oh and just back to the original statement a 2.8 KB on a 4.6 is "STILL" a 7.4 -------> :D <------- cuz 2.8+4.6=7.4.

[JayplaySS2]

Oh and just back to the original statement a 2.8 KB on a 4.6 is "STILL" a 7.4 -------> :D <------- cuz 2.8+4.6=7.4.

Now if I can just get some carbon fiber "7.4L" badges for the fender....:yup:

[predator]

Thirdly I said nothing about a HP or that a 4L engine with a 2L sc will make the same hp as a N/A 6L go back to what I said and I said that technically a 4.6L with a 2.8L SC is roughly equivalent to 7.4L which is actually not its probabaly quite a bit more baseded specificaly on volumetric airflow.

Now lets break this down. I'll skip some of the simple stuff but basically a N/A engine uses the vacuum in its cylinders to fill the cylinders with air which is the main component of combustion on a combustion engine. A 350 CI engine would draw in 350 CI of air "IF" the heads intake and carb flowed at 100% efficiency which is impossible for numerous reasons based off head flow, valve lift, Compression etc so it is not drawing in anywhere near 350 CI but for arguments sake we'll say it has 350 CI of uncompressed air max period. A 454 etc or whatever else is the same.

Now lets take another 350 Ci Engine with a 200 CI roots blower.at 100 % efficiency we have 350 CI of air then the blower at 100% efficiency would put out 200 CI however the blower has roots which decreases the volume however it is spinning at a stepped rate at an unknown value so technically its pushing more than 200 CI but we are keeping it simple and just going to see how many CI of air we have 350 from the N/A engine and another 200 from the blower for a total of 550 CI from a single complete cycle of this engine in laymans terms.

In actuality it is completly different based on compression ratio's head flow valve lift etc so a 350 can never possibly draw in a full 350 CI per complete cycle but the difference is that the blower can force alot more so in a supertechnical sense even a 2.8L is pumping alot more than 2.8L even at very low boost. So technically speaking my argument holds water especially when dealing with volumetric airflow, and total cubic inches of the mechanisms use to move this air, even though I was just prodding in the first damn place.

WTF... will someone help me out here...

I dont get you man... how can you NOT see that there is a gear ratio between the liters you are trying to compare... the motor displacement is based on crank rotations... the blower displacemt is based on one revolution (one rev of the roots/screws) which cannot be directly tied to motor displacement... i mean if i pulley is sized to the perfect size it could basically feed the same amount of air in that the motor could take in on it own... there for you would have a 4.6L with a 2.4L blower performing exactly like a 4.6 (minus the parisitic drag) and it woudl not be like having a damn 7.0L.

your statement was not valid... never has been valid... and only would be valid if fo some odd reason someone had just the perfect bost level and tune to match a 7.4L... but that exact same comment could be said about any size motor... i could slow down the blower enough to choke it down and make it act like a 2.0L...

I think i see where you are trying to go with this... you know say you have a 7.4 L engine with 10:1 compression... it will take (theoretically) 7.4 ounces of air and compress it 10 times....

and yes with a 4.6L and a 2.8L blower there is a boost level and a motor compression ratio that would do the same thing... but that is a very specific combination... you cant just add the 2 man...

-me

[predator]

Technically not you have a 4.6L engine with an added 2.8L so yours equals out to the displacement of roughly 7.4L :P



Oh and just back to the original statement a 2.8 KB on a 4.6 is "STILL" a 7.4 -------> <------- cuz 2.8+4.6=7.4.

No back to your original point.... YOU DO NOT HAVE 7.4L OF DISPLACMENT. you have a 4.6L motor and a 2.8L supercharger...

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

Geez man pull the stick out of your rear you will give yourself a headache trying to argue this one :nana: "I can do this all day long"<voice of Larry the cable guy.

Ok heres another stab at it. the 4.6 is a 4.6L air pump correct? The supercharger is a 2.8L air pump so a 2.8L air pump on top of a 4.6 L air pump gives ya what a 7.4L air pump. yes yes yes I know all about the gears the pullies the screws the gaskets runners etc. (I can rebuild a motor with my eyes closed so dont try to lecture on what parts they consist of k as well as superchargers-roots/screw/centrifugal etc and turbos). I know all about compression how it is formed, all the technical do's and don'ts of compression.

4.6L displacement <-----displacement of what? an air fuel mixture
+
2.8L displacement supercharger<---displacement of what? air

Does he actually have a 7.4L engine no he has a 4.6L with a 2.8L supercharger as the supercharger cannot power the car by itself and cant be an engine in its self. The 2 even work on completely different principles. Both are Machines designed to move air. However.....technically speaking (metaphorically speaking technnically and not a Chiltons breakdown technically) he has a 7.4L air pump and I can argue all day long How he has a bigger air pump and my little 5.7L air pump cannot and will never be able to reach the same air processing ability of his without adding one myself (which would also require a whole bunch of other stuff). Even If I bore and stroke it to 7.4L Mine cannot move the air in the same manner. But they are both displacing air from the outside to the inside. Am I winging it admittedly so. Is it a stretch of course it is, it was from the begining. But by that logic it still counts as a hit even if it is on the line. And of course I dont have 7.4L of displacement he does I only have 5.7 :P


Sorry Jay fresh outta CF Gimme a min and I might be able to get you a photo etched waterslide though. Warning ya though its not going to be cheapespecially with all the options.

[JayplaySS2]

Geez man pull the stick out of your rear you will give yourself a headache trying to argue this one :nana: "I can do this all day long"<voice of Larry the cable guy.

Ok heres another stab at it. the 4.6 is a 4.6L air pump correct? The supercharger is a 2.8L air pump so a 2.8L air pump on top of a 4.6 L air pump gives ya what a 7.4L air pump. yes yes yes I know all about the gears the pullies the screws the gaskets runners etc. (I can rebuild a motor with my eyes closed so dont try to lecture on what parts they consist of k as well as superchargers-roots/screw/centrifugal etc and turbos). I know all about compression how it is formed, all the technical do's and don'ts of compression.

4.6L displacement <-----displacement of what? an air fuel mixture
+
2.8L displacement supercharger<---displacement of what? air

Does he actually have a 7.4L engine no he has a 4.6L with a 2.8L supercharger as the supercharger cannot power the car by itself and cant be an engine in its self. The 2 even work on completely different principles. Both are Machines designed to move air. However.....technically speaking (metaphorically speaking technnically and not a Chiltons breakdown technically) he has a 7.4L air pump and I can argue all day long How he has a bigger air pump and my little 5.7L air pump cannot and will never be able to reach the same air processing ability of his without adding one myself (which would also require a whole bunch of other stuff). Even If I bore and stroke it to 7.4L Mine cannot move the air in the same manner. But they are both displacing air from the outside to the inside. Am I winging it admittedly so. Is it a stretch of course it is, it was from the begining. But by that logic it still counts as a hit even if it is on the line. And of course I dont have 7.4L of displacement he does I only have 5.7 :P


Sorry Jay fresh outta CF Gimme a min and I might be able to get you a photo etched waterslide though. Warning ya though its not going to be cheapespecially with all the options.

No problem man. You take a check? J/K :hyper:

[slims00ls1z28]

Sure but I wont be able to ship until payment clears :hasquint:

[predator]

Ok heres another stab at it. the 4.6 is a 4.6L air pump correct? The supercharger is a 2.8L air pump so a 2.8L air pump on top of a 4.6 L air pump gives ya what a 7.4L air pump.

4.6L displacement <-----displacement of what? an air fuel mixture
+
2.8L displacement supercharger<---displacement of what? air



Headache... not so much... its sadly to a point where i want you to run out of lil bitch excuses that make no sence...

ok you want to treat this like an air pump...

cool we will aproach it that way...

you have a 2.8L and a 4.6L air pump.... ahhhh but they are inline... and the nature of a roots or screw supercharger (dont even pull out the centrifical card here) means it is actually a gate... It controls all air into the motor...

so does that mean he actually took his 4.6L and turned it into a 2.8L by puting a supercharger on it?

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

why do you even try to defend a numbers game? I could say its a it's 2.8 plus 4.6 just because they both have L behind it.

You can try to explain anyway you want to and it still wont matter because you have missed the point entirely. Inline or not it makes no matter. Bottom line fill the 4.6 with water (ensure all cylinders are all the way down so you can fill each cylinder full ). Now remove the rotors in the 2.8 and fill it full of water. Now pour them both in a trashcan and add how much water you have in the trash can. That is my whole point from the get go and it is infallable period. I don't want any excuses gates gears inline etc. Bottom line the 4.6L engine can hold a max of 4.6L of WATER within its cylinders. The 2.8L (interior volume of said supercharger minus rotors is 2.8L)
supercharger can hold a max of 2.8L of WATER. Add the two together and what do you have? There is no spinning anything, forcing anything, and the two cannot even be moved and the bottom line is 2.8L+4.6L of standing water. Case closed, period point made. Thats as simple as I can make it.

Lastly if you took any of this more than an enlongated joke and me at prodding at Jayplay in the first place then I'm sorry you are an F*$@#$g idiot. I'll never run out of "bitch" excuses because there is none. My point is made and still stands. You can't argue the point I made because there is nothing to argue. If you want to turn this into a beligerant name calling match I can ablige ya to the fullest. I suggest if you can't handle it STFU and don't respond.

[predator]

Y do i defend a numbers game? Im an engineer... thats what i do all day every day... its how i get my rocks off...

hey man its cool... i understand that some times you just have to fall back on "it was a prolonged joke"... i mean ive ahd times where logic just isnt in my favor too...

and if you took the rotors out of a 2.8 liter Supercharger and filled it with water you wouldnt get 2.8L of water... prolly more like 4....

-me

[slims00ls1z28]

and if you took the rotors out of a 2.8 liter Supercharger and filled it with water you wouldnt get 2.8L of water... prolly more like 4....

-me

If it was more like 4 then he has a 4.6L +4L and in my original point I should have said a 8.6L and now you see the entire basis of the small technicality that I made from the get go. However the 2.8 is the interior volume of the supercharger period without taking into account the rotors or screws whichever it has cant remember off hand. its much less with the rotors and they take up most of the interior room of the case. Just like an engine with pistons in various positions of crankshaft movement is never displacing the full CID at any given time.

And for the record you need to catch some of my many other posts throughout the forum as i don't now nor never needed to to fall back on "it was a joke" thats what it was from the get go. Did you not notice the ":P" (couldnt find a razzberry emoticon at the time so I typed it and as you can see its unedited) and based on my water in a trashcan theory my small technicality still holds, well......... water :nana:.

*There now we can go back to being friends* <--Doc holiday voice.

Back on topic though Termy's = wow.

[patricksd]

I'm gonna jump in here, just because I'm not a rabid GM or Ford fan. To be honest, I could give a shit if a Cobra makes 650 rwhp or an LS1 or LS2 450 with bolt-ons. Why? Because like most people, I don't live next to a track, so racing it five nights a week and posting my experiences in the "kill stories" section is not realistic. My guess is, most guys with Cobras and built Camaros drive them as daily drivers, or sparingly throughout the week. What does this mean? It means they have to drive on the street.

There is such a limit as useable horsepower. Sure, rocketing down a 1/4 mile track in 10 seconds is bad ass. But unless you live next to a track, it means absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada. There is no place I can take my car and safely rocket up to 120 mph and have enough room to shut down, without endangering my life, or those around me.

So, for the majority of us, it doesn't matter. We have to drive our cars on the street, where there are stupid, slow drivers. We have rush hour traffic, which limits 0-60 runs. There are stoplights. Roads were not designed or built for 600 rwhp cars. And since the majority of driving is done on the road, 600 rwhp becomes a disadvantage.

For anyone with a high horsepower Cobra or LS1, you cannot even get close to your power potential cruising on the street, there are too many obstructions. Now, I know some of guys live in towns of 200 people with wide-open stretches of road. I'm sure in those areas, its a blast. But with 70% of the American population living near the coasts (i.e. big cities), there isn't much opportunity to open it up.

Personally, I don't want 600 rwhp. Why? Because I'd be on people's asses all the time, drive more erratic, risk more tickets, and God forbid, kill myself or others.

[secondgearscratch]

I'm gonna jump in here, just because I'm not a rabid GM or Ford fan. To be honest, I could give a shit if a Cobra makes 650 rwhp or an LS1 or LS2 450 with bolt-ons. Why? Because like most people, I don't live next to a track, so racing it five nights a week and posting my experiences in the "kill stories" section is not realistic. My guess is, most guys with Cobras and built Camaros drive them as daily drivers, or sparingly throughout the week. What does this mean? It means they have to drive on the street.

There is such a limit as useable horsepower. Sure, rocketing down a 1/4 mile track in 10 seconds is bad ass. But unless you live next to a track, it means absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada. There is no place I can take my car and safely rocket up to 120 mph and have enough room to shut down, without endangering my life, or those around me.

So, for the majority of us, it doesn't matter. We have to drive our cars on the street, where there are stupid, slow drivers. We have rush hour traffic, which limits 0-60 runs. There are stoplights. Roads were not designed or built for 600 rwhp cars. And since the majority of driving is done on the road, 600 rwhp becomes a disadvantage.

For anyone with a high horsepower Cobra or LS1, you cannot even get close to your power potential cruising on the street, there are too many obstructions. Now, I know some of guys live in towns of 200 people with wide-open stretches of road. I'm sure in those areas, its a blast. But with 70% of the American population living near the coasts (i.e. big cities), there isn't much opportunity to open it up.

Personally, I don't want 600 rwhp. Why? Because I'd be on people's asses all the time, drive more erratic, risk more tickets, and God forbid, kill myself or others.

interesting points. never thought of it this way. still though, even 300 hp is a whole lot for the street. it all just depends on how you make the power and how you drive it in my opinion.

[camarojunky74]

personally for me the more power the better, although with that in mind more power means less reliability and affordability!

this alll comes down to who has the deeper pockets!

[slims00ls1z28]

I've seen instances where 120 HP was too much. I can only imagine how hard it would be hooking 600 or more hell I dont have near that and 1st and most of 2nd gear is useless on the street even from a roll.

[camarojunky74]

lol honda kids dont count, what i dont understand is how they wrap those little shit boxes around telephone poles? i didnt even know they went fast enough to crack the front bumper! pretty much idiot proof cars no? lol

[EVO 9]

wow, the most civilized debate about cobras and f-bodies ever. i think some of the guys on this board arent really car guys, they just like LS1's. which is cool because that is what the board is for, LS1's. but it gets annoying sometimes on here as soon as "cobra" is seen everyone is quick to say "oh well, put a blower on an LS1 and blah blah blah" alot of people get annoyed by the mustang owners on here, but im here for the same reason as they are, to learn. i still find it amazing, i was at a primarily ls1 shop that a friend of mine works at and a guy saw my cobra and he asks "what all is done to you Slobra?" i told him i had a pulley, intake, exhaust and tune. he say "oh so your putting what 400 or so to the tires" i told him closer to 460 and he couldnt believe it, he was amazed. i love both cars, but for some reason i prefer driving mustangs. hopefully one day i will have one of each.

[secondgearscratch]

wow, the most civilized debate about cobras and f-bodies ever. i think some of the guys on this board arent really car guys, they just like LS1's. which is cool because that is what the board is for, LS1's. but it gets annoying sometimes on here as soon as "cobra" is seen everyone is quick to say "oh well, put a blower on an LS1 and blah blah blah" alot of people get annoyed by the mustang owners on here, but im here for the same reason as they are, to learn. i still find it amazing, i was at a primarily ls1 shop that a friend of mine works at and a guy saw my cobra and he asks "what all is done to you Slobra?" i told him i had a pulley, intake, exhaust and tune. he say "oh so your putting what 400 or so to the tires" i told him closer to 460 and he couldnt believe it, he was amazed. i love both cars, but for some reason i prefer driving mustangs. hopefully one day i will have one of each.

exactly, and that is the deciding factor. most people who put down the opposite company (like gm guys putting down ford) are severely uneducated about cars in general, and oftentimes know very little about their own cars. its that hardheadedness that really pissing me off when its combined with arrogance. you can love your brand, but atleast educate yourself on the competition or else you end up as just another ignorant fan boy. if you really are a "car guy or gal" you will at the very least respect fast cars and they will interest you to know about, and if you still dislike them you will have concrete and smart reasons as to why you think this way.

i also agree with the whole "put a blower on an ls1" copout. if youre going to cite this reason, for christs sake know why you think this and have some friggin evidence and logic to back it up. i know cobras have blowers and i think ford was very keen as to what car guys wanted. they didnt sell in high numbers when new, but look at the 03-04 cobras now, they are arguably one of the most sough after domestics in the last 20 years. easy to mod for big power, great looking, and UNDER WARRANTY. cant really beat it.

good points everyone.

[N20LT4]

There is such a limit as useable horsepower. Sure, rocketing down a 1/4 mile track in 10 seconds is bad ass. But unless you live next to a track, it means absolutely nothing, zero, zilch, nada. There is no place I can take my car and safely rocket up to 120 mph and have enough room to shut down, without endangering my life, or those around me.

So, for the majority of us, it doesn't matter. We have to drive our cars on the street, where there are stupid, slow drivers. We have rush hour traffic, which limits 0-60 runs. There are stoplights. Roads were not designed or built for 600 rwhp cars. And since the majority of driving is done on the road, 600 rwhp becomes a disadvantage.

For anyone with a high horsepower Cobra or LS1, you cannot even get close to your power potential cruising on the street, there are too many obstructions. Now, I know some of guys live in towns of 200 people with wide-open stretches of road. I'm sure in those areas, its a blast. But with 70% of the American population living near the coasts (i.e. big cities), there isn't much opportunity to open it up.

Personally, I don't want 600 rwhp. Why? Because I'd be on people's asses all the time, drive more erratic, risk more tickets, and God forbid, kill myself or others.

I don't know what in the heck your talking about bro, but my previous '97 SS was a 10-second car and I had no problem romping the mess out of it on the streets. I'm a retired street racer, and when we did we would take it to the highway late at night and go as fast as 160 on occasion - and i'm still here (thank the lord). 120mph is cookies. There are several strips here in Northern California that are more than a quarter-mile long where you can stretch a 500 or 600rwhp cars legs; and the population in my town is about 700,000. Heck, a guy use to race his 9.90 '70 Chevelle at the street races back in '02. And if you ever felt what 600rwhp was like, believe me nothing less would do ;)

[JayplaySS2]

I don't know what in the heck your talking about bro, but my previous '97 SS was a 10-second car and I had no problem romping the mess out of it on the streets. I'm a retired street racer, and when we did we would take it to the highway late at night and go as fast as 160 on occasion - and i'm still here (thank the lord). 120mph is cookies. There are several strips here in Northern California that are more than a quarter-mile long where you can stretch a 500 or 600rwhp cars legs; and the population in my town is about 700,000. Heck, a guy use to race his 9.90 '70 Chevelle at the street races back in '02. And if you ever felt what 600rwhp was like, believe me nothing less would do ;)


Agreed man, anything less than 600rwhp WHEN you have had it is almost noneventful.:drivin:

[Frost]

Oh yea, hell of a bargin too! We can make that power with $5K in mods.
You have to buy a $20K engine. :lol:

Wait... what?? I make middle 700's on pump gas and I don't have even 15K into my entire turbo and turbo kit, engine AND fuel system... My turbo kit costed more than my longblock!

[JayplaySS2]

Wait... what?? I make middle 700's on pump gas and I don't have even 15K into my entire turbo and turbo kit, engine AND fuel system... My turbo kit costed more than my longblock!


I have less than 6k ($5,678 to be exact) into my whole KB and fuel set up now and know Im right around 650whp on pump gas. With my 25-26psi tune I will run over 700whp too. Purs like a kitten on 8hr road trips no less. Thats a bargin for $6K. That quote was for the turnkey KB LS2.

[Frost]

I have less than 6k ($5,678 to be exact) into my whole KB and fuel set up now and know Im right around 650whp on pump gas. With my 25-26psi tune I will run over 700whp too. Purs like a kitten on 8hr road trips no less. Thats a bargin for $6K. That quote was for the turnkey KB LS2.

My PTK kit was 6K with a 76GTS turbo... keeps A/C and no pipes under the K-member :)

If the new argument is price; it's easy to come by an f-body in good shape for 9K with minimal looking around and 3K gets the motor forged and fuel done, What's an 03-04 Cobra cost? (I like the fan boy debates :) )

[JayplaySS2]

My PTK kit was 6K with a 76GTS turbo... keeps A/C and no pipes under the K-member :)

If the new argument is price; it's easy to come by an f-body in good shape for 9K with minimal looking around and 3K gets the motor forged and fuel done, What's an 03-04 Cobra cost? (I like the fan boy debates :) )


You can get modded ones already for $21-25K with less miles and in far better shape than an F-bod. Not that price matters. Check out Ebay, 2002 F-bods with 20K on them are in the $20K's too though nobody is buying them obviously. You are trying to say a $ 9K F-bod is the same as a 20K Cobra? Genuine. I guess you are trying to say also that 3K buys you a forged bottom WORTH working with? Please. I was going that route with my SS before I sold it. :thumbup:

Just this weekend I helped my bud and his 2000 Z28 w/58K on it install new T-top seals since they were leaking like crazy. Quailty. No offense.
Dont take offense to this. My next car will be a C6 Z06 with FI. Prices will come down a bit with the LS3 Vette out. Hope my roof doesnt blow off though.....

[camarojunky74]

wow....your basing gm's quality of f bodys on your friends t top seals, come on, a rubber seal , well in any case mileage has no effect on weather stripping, just exposure to heat cold ect, im sure you know this cause you had one and you now everything about f bods, but seem to forget the fact that a 98fbod is the same thing as a 02 fbod, cause thats a luxury f bod fans get to enjoy, 5 solid years of performance what did ford give only 2 years of a mustang worth having, but not worth the price imo, yeah i think those cobras are sick dont get me wrong but this thread was fine until you came in here bashing f bods because of weather stripping, lol whatever, :notworthy: please, you drive a cobra, say whatever you want about any car cause yours is the fastest.

[JayplaySS2]

wow....your basing gm's quality of f bodys on your friends t top seals, come on, a rubber seal , well in any case mileage has no effect on weather stripping, just exposure to heat cold ect, im sure you know this cause you had one and you now everything about f bods, but seem to forget the fact that a 98fbod is the same thing as a 02 fbod, cause thats a luxury f bod fans get to enjoy, 5 solid years of performance what did ford give only 2 years of a mustang worth having, but not worth the price imo, yeah i think those cobras are sick dont get me wrong but this thread was fine until you came in here bashing f bods because of weather stripping, lol whatever, :notworthy: please, you drive a cobra, say whatever you want about any car cause yours is the fastest.

Mine isnt the fastest and we all know every car company has its problems. I also wasnt bashing GM based on my friends Camaro, I have had 5 Camaros ( last one was a 99 SS 11 sec N/A) and now my 10th Mustang. Had far more problems with my Camaros as a whole especially wierd crap like power window motors all the time and the damn bulbs burning out in the radio and dash and dont even mention the damn parking lights! Ive gone to hell and back modding the Cobra and have YET to have a problem. Like the C6 Z06 having thier roofs peel off! Ill just JB weld it. Dont get your panties in a bunch.

[silverz28camaro]

Calm down. I dont think I can walk everybody. My next car will be a C6 Z06 so I love GM just as much as the next guy. I also like Ford too though. I just give credit where it is due. The N/A 5.0 Cammer for the FR500 series car makes 535 hp (more than the Z06 with MUCH less displacement but a race motor) and the N/A 7.0l in the S7 makes 550 hp. They can build them when they need to. Blower was just easy. The XLR is rated at 440 and the Cobra is rated at 390. I am sure they are not correct either. The Cobra is closer to 440 due to 360-380rwhp in stock form corrected for 15% DT loss. I am confident the Caddy will not make 440bhp but who cares. So Ford does still win the MOD wars. LSX is the future platform and we all know it. No big deal. For the record, there are guys who crave MASSIVE power, like myself and would still need FI on the mighty LS7. When they put the LS7 into the Camaro (Katech I believe) it was still a turd. The Vette AND the LS7 make the ultimate combo.:nana:

if your cobra is soooo bad i want to see you walk this car

http://www.ls1speed.com/shopcar.cfm

and don;t give me any "uh it has 370cid and a turbo" this 8.95 sec camaro will kill you stang

[Hot Black Trans-Am]

:lol::lmao: I think I hear the click of a locked thread in the near future! :lock:

[camarojunky74]

Mine isnt the fastest and we all know every car company has its problems. I also wasnt bashing GM based on my friends Camaro, I have had 5 Camaros ( last one was a 99 SS 11 sec N/A) and now my 10th Mustang. Had far more problems with my Camaros as a whole especially wierd crap like power window motors all the time and the damn bulbs burning out in the radio and dash and dont even mention the damn parking lights! Ive gone to hell and back modding the Cobra and have YET to have a problem. Like the C6 Z06 having thier roofs peel off! Ill just JB weld it. Dont get your panties in a bunch.

what do you mean you werent bashing gm! you clearly wrote that you had to help replace weather stripping... Quality,

sounds like bashing to me!

but whatever im not getting my pantys in a bunch, im over it and i hope this thread doesnt get locked because its a good one, imo

[Black R/A]

I have a 1993 LT1 T-top and it doesn't leak and it doesn't need new weatherstripping. I have had no problems with my LS1 either, ever. I have never had the head problems they have with '03 Cobras and my car doesn't explode and lock the doors when it gets hit from the rear.

And the goal posts in this argument continue to get moved all the time. With similar builds against the 4.6 Ford, the LS1 always produces more power. ALWAYS. Unless the engine builder is an idiot. The F-body is a far more nicely styled car than any Mustang ever made, with better options (t-tops, better leather, more luggage space) and it has a much faster top end (160+mph steady as a rock).

Man, the Ford inferiority complex just doesn't quit. So you made the mistake of selling your SS for an '03 Cobra. Guess what? You're not nearly the fastest, there's DD LS1s that will kick your ass. Guess what else? Nobody here cares. It's old. Get lost.

[secondgearscratch]

ok its getting pretty girly in here going back and forth with accusations about weather stripping and quality. and who cares about the 8 second camaro because it really isnt relevant to the argument.

lets just leave this at the kenne bell twin screw cobras are very sick cars indeed, even a stock cobra is.

and even the ford guys know what happens when an lsx gets boosted.

no one wins this argument. lets settle with the facts that anything can happen on any given day but at the end of that day we all are driving very nice, very fast, and very capable cars.

:cheers:

[formula2432001]

With the understanding that a supercharged cobra can blow our doors off with only a few mods, it takes ford to put a superchargeron something to enven compete with the f-body and the vette. The saddest of things is that ford had to wait until the f-body was gone. If you think about it, one could say we are using outdated technology up against the best ford can dish out, I think we are doing very well for ourselves. I want to see the new camaro against the cobra!

[Hot Black Trans-Am]

Who really gives a crap about how the power is made as long as the power comes on strong and long! I'm not talking about the Vtech 6000-9000 rpm window either.

I'm looking forward to the new muscle/pony car war too! :yup:

[camarojunky74]

so.... Chevy is the best, okay im happy:drivin:

[djvaly]

Yep pretty sickening that 2 mods (pulley and exhaust) can put them close to that mark.

a friend of mine has an '03 Corbra, puts down 420rwhp with pulley and catback, with 15% loss for manual transmission, he's at 500 hp at the crank/// :snowboard: it takes heads/cam/full exhaust/Fast 90 and a good tune to get that on an LS1. termis are our biggest competition and supras, other than the c6z06...

[01T-TopToy]

I have never owned an S/C'd Cobra ( feh I wish !) but I had a 93 Cobra... god I still miss that car.. I have raced a few 01-04s with my 01 SS, with the typical results (win some/ lose some ) and I gotta say, if I could find an 03-04 Cobra, my SS would mysteriously disappear.. Numbers don't lie, and Damn, those are drop dead sexy cars.. I LOVE my SS. ...now if I could only afford both :thinkin:

[camarojunky74]

ummm... my buddys has a cam and full exhaust and does 415!

[djvaly]

ummm... my buddys has a cam and full exhaust and does 415!

stock = 300rwhp
cam = 25rwhp
full exhaust = 35rwhp
total = 360rwhp... 415 to the crank yeah...
you need heads and a good tune to get into 420rwhp

[camarojunky74]

sure thing albert einstein! next time i need power gains i will consult the know it all!

oh my bad he has been messing with hp tuners himself learning it etc. but no intake or heads.

oh btw stock hp numbers were 323 to the ground

[djvaly]

sure thing albert einstein! next time i need power gains i will consult the know it all!

oh my bad he has been messing with hp tuners himself learning it etc. but no intake or heads.

oh btw stock hp numbers were 323 to the ground

your numbers are off, have a nice day.

[camarojunky74]

oooooookay:loser:

[djvaly]

there's no need to be rude kid. there's one thing to have a difference of opinion but another to be rude. your last warning. ;)

[camarojunky74]

i appologize for being rude! but i dont apprectiate the "kid" comment either.

you have my sincere apology.

[djvaly]

very well, let the thread go on with it's original topic. thanks!

[djvaly]

I agree, termis are notorious from the factory, just a tune and pulley and they are tough on the street.

[camarojunky74]

okay back on track, in todays breaking news paris hilton stubbs her toe on a lawn chair.
she will be in the hospital over night for observation!

[xinthenight]

You can get modded ones already for $21-25K with less miles and in far better shape than an F-bod. Not that price matters. Check out Ebay, 2002 F-bods with 20K on them are in the $20K's too though nobody is buying them obviously. You are trying to say a $ 9K F-bod is the same as a 20K Cobra? Genuine. I guess you are trying to say also that 3K buys you a forged bottom WORTH working with? Please. I was going that route with my SS before I sold it. :thumbup:

Just this weekend I helped my bud and his 2000 Z28 w/58K on it install new T-top seals since they were leaking like crazy. Quailty. No offense.
Dont take offense to this. My next car will be a C6 Z06 with FI. Prices will come down a bit with the LS3 Vette out. Hope my roof doesnt blow off though.....

My Z28 has about 150k miles on it and I have been taking them(t-tops) off at least 4 times a week for trips around town and to school...and they STILL don't leak at all. So that's your friends fault there, it's called taking care of your car.

Let me go find some girl in town with a mustang(about 90% of the mustang owners I've seen are girls) and tell her to rev her engine until it blows up. Then I'll come here and tell you "Wanna talk about quality? I know a girl that only has 3k miles on her cobra and she's already blown her engine" because that is EXACTLY what you're doing.

And on topic about Cobra vs. Camaro. Stock, I'd pick camaro any day of the week. Sure a version has a stock supercharger, but I'm fairly sure you could buy your own(and a stronger one) and put it into a Z28 or SS and it'd be even better AND CHEAPER. I also love the f body cars, it's so much harder to have a good system that goes into the trunk. I love to listen to music while I drive, and the hatch makes it that much better.

I used to have a strong hatred for all mustangs besides 85 and older. I just couldn't stand the look of one, and wanted to race every one I seen. I just...hated them. But now, I have grown some respect for them the past few weeks(not because of this thread, lol) but I don't ever plan on buying one.

[N20LT4]

Supercharged 4.6's are nothing new, they've been around waaay before the terminators came about. Guys in my city 10 years ago were custom fabbing supercharger kits for their '96-97 Cobra's (there were none available @ the time) to run with me and my buddies cam only LT1's. Just build a solid bottom end and run the power adder of choice and "termy's" are nothing to worry about. It's that easy. :thinkin:

[secondgearscratch]

Supercharged 4.6's are nothing new, they've been around waaay before the terminators came about. Guys in my city 10 years ago were custom fabbing supercharger kits for their '96-97 Cobra's (there were none available @ the time) to run with me and my buddies cam only LT1's. Just build a solid bottom end and run the power adder of choice and "termy's" are nothing to worry about. It's that easy. :thinkin:

i agree. and i really like cobras, but what always chaps my ass is the fact that i (who doesnt make excuses) simply brings up forced induction on an lsx. the response is usually "dont get butt hurt cuz you dont have a blower".

take the two engines, and put the two biggest turbos or pullied roots blowers on them, same size, but the biggest.

you cannot tell me with the same compression ratio that the lsx wouldnt be more powerful. it still goes back to cubic inches doesnt it? the torque would be outrageous.

that is precisely why i would kill for a kb twin screw on top of my ls1.

[N20LT4]

This is a link to my brothers '01 Formula. He made 462rwhp with only 8psi boost, which is what the terminator sits @ boost-wise in stock form, with his only other mods being a ported MAF and Hooker cat-back at the time. The rest of the car was completely stock down to the manifolds & y-pipe. A comparably modded Cobra won't make anywhere near that without more bolt-ons and/or a pulley. He now has a forged 6.0 with Patriot heads pushing 621 with the same D1SC.

http://www.forcefedperformance.com/customride.asp?key=21

[secondgearscratch]

This is a link to my brothers '01 Formula. He made 462rwhp with only 8psi boost, which is what the terminator sits @ boost-wise in stock form, with his only other mods being a ported MAF and Hooker cat-back at the time. The rest of the car was completely stock down to the manifolds & y-pipe. A comparably modded Cobra won't make anywhere near that without more bolt-ons and/or a pulley. He now has a forged 6.0 with Patriot heads pushing 621 with the same D1SC.

http://www.forcefedperformance.com/customride.asp?key=21

wow. im speechless. that is a great looking car, and the power is fantastic for the little mods he has in addition to the procharger.

so no lt's, no high flow fuel pump, nothing like that?

oops just saw where you said completely stock minus what you listed...sorry.

[JayplaySS2]

Most of you car guys know what you are talking about but a few of you are so uneducated you should even post. I HAD my LS1 with CNC LS6 Heads/233/239/600/603 TSP/ ASP/ LT's/ SFC/ Full bolt ons custom tune with 431 rwhp AND a 100/150 shot though I only ran the 100 a few times (look up my welcome here I have a pic of my SS). My Cobra (at only 19lbs) walked right away from 3rd on with the 100 shot. 3 seperate races. :bravo:

If 650rwhp on pump gas and the power to run 9's with not even lifting a valve cover is NOT impressive you are brain dead. You guys DONT own a Cobra and you are preaching to me and I have owned both. The Camaro was in a word...... boring after all those mods. I remember punching it in 2nd gear and leaning foward and backwards real fast to hope it would keep me in my seat. NOPE. So to that LS1 with a blower thing. Build it, bring it and hope it runs better than my little 281. Can you trap 136mph with 6K in mods? Didnt think so. Good thread though BTW.

I have a buddy right now building a procharged 2000 Z28 and we will be installing a 100 shot ON TOP of that and then watch who wins. Im gonna walk ever so slowly from him. Dam its gotta be sad reading this and most of you only run 12's. I walked hard my STS 99 Z28 that he thought would be close. Sad really. I have worked on LSX's more than i have my own Cobra.

Here is the sad truth, nobody wants a 5-10K LS1. That is the car they drive UNTIL they get the Cobra or the Z06. Fact. Sorry. Give me ANY LS1 and ANY Cobra and $5K and the Cobra will walk the F-body. Sorry. While having a higher resale value and looking the part.

This is like therapy for me. Damn common sense is so hard to come by here.