NA vs Turbo

[LS1SSZ28]

Let me lay out the senario...


Same car

same driver

one is built to 500HP, and its NA

the other is bosted to 500HP


would either one be faster then the other? or is 500HP 500HP?

[slims00ls1z28]

Too many invariables. You can gain 500 HP NA through many means either bigger cubes or by H/C/I and have separate powerbands with the edge probably going to the bigger CI which can use a much smaller cam to get there.

500 HP Turbo also has a few quirks based on system, turbo size etc you can get one that takes a sec to spool up and get a little lag or one with no lag but tops out sooner.

Personally If I had the choice I'd say turbo based on you can pretty much use a stock motor and boost to 500 and be still very friendly on the street provided you aren't spooling it up all the time. NA at that level can also be attained and probably kept streetable as well so I guess its just up to the individual and the means to achieve it.

[anniversary30]

The little bit I do know is that turbo and supercharged cars make more torque. 500 hp is 500hp but the car that is making more TQ will pull to that 500 much quicker. If I am wrong please correct me. My buddy is running a 04 cobra. He is at 503 hp with 490 TQ. (blower car). Me 432 with 387 TQ N/A. Im not real far away in power (enough) but the TQ is 100 different. He pulls on me easily. Forced induction helps TQ alot.

[ATCharming]

torque is more key to winning a race than horsepower is. and like anniversary30 said, FI can create lots of torque.

as to which ones faster? if both cars are the same transmission, and have the same suspension mods etc., and both cars are making 500hp, and the same torque, it all depends on the powerband.

---turbo obviously has lag, but creates a ton of power once the lag is gone...
---s.c. creates a little less power than turbo, but makes boost through all rpms
---NA... well too many factors here. id say the CAM is the most important factor, as it will be the part creating ur powerband. now if ur cam doesnt make too good of power till a certain rpm, its almost the same as turbo.

id say, if it were turbo, or NA with a higher powerband, if racing on a roll it will take the SC car.

thats the best i could help... too many factors to give u a straight up answer

basically, if your trying to decide which way to go to make 500hp, tell us more info and we can help u more. like, ur budget... are u gonna race more from rolls or digs... is it a DD... etc

[Zboner]

when i had my cammed and stalled Z, it was fast up top, but now with my supercharged trans am, i feel so much TQ its unreal, it gets up a lot faster if that helps a little

[ATCharming]

Too many invariables. You can gain 500 HP NA through many means either bigger cubes or by H/C/I and have separate powerbands with the edge probably going to the bigger CI which can use a much smaller cam to get there.

500 HP Turbo also has a few quirks based on system, turbo size etc you can get one that takes a sec to spool up and get a little lag or one with no lag but tops out sooner.

Personally If I had the choice I'd say turbo based on you can pretty much use a stock motor and boost to 500 and be still very friendly on the street provided you aren't spooling it up all the time. NA at that level can also be attained and probably kept streetable as well so I guess its just up to the individual and the means to achieve it.

good points... i would say turbo would be the best for a streetable car, cuz u can drive it under the spool point around town. say it makes boost at 2800rpms... if ur driving around town, just shift before 2.8k. that way ur car doesnt seem like it has 500hp yet.

sc, ur makin power all the time so driving it around the street would be pretty difficult (more than turbo that is)
NA, is hard to say because u could get a higher powerband cam like i said, and drive it under the powerband and you wont sacrifice driveability.

[ATCharming]

when i had my cammed and stalled Z, it was fast up top, but now with my supercharged trans am, i feel so much TQ its unreal, it gets up a lot faster if that helps a little

just wonderin, but i have no clue about stalls... how did the stall help you out up top? i thought the stall was only good for launches, and after that its useless.

[Zboner]

good points... i would say turbo would be the best for a streetable car, cuz u can drive it under the spool point around town. say it makes boost at 2800rpms... if ur driving around town, just shift before 2.8k. that way ur car doesnt seem like it has 500hp yet.

sc, ur makin power all the time so driving it around the street would be pretty difficult (more than turbo that is)
NA, is hard to say because u could get a higher powerband cam like i said, and drive it under the powerband and you wont sacrifice driveability.

not true, the SC works the same way also, the higher the RPM's the more boost your going to have, i have a SC car, and if you stay out of the boost then its like drivng a stock car almost. the differece is the turbo works of exhaust, and SC is belt driven, the turbo has to build boost up.


for a street car i would perfer a SC, and for a track car i would perfer a turbo.

[ATCharming]

not true, the SC works the same way also, the higher the RPM's the more boost your going to have, i have a SC car, and if you stay out of the boost then its like drivng a stock car almost. the differece is the turbo works of exhaust, and SC is belt driven, the turbo has to build boost up.


for a street car i would perfer a SC, and for a track car i would perfer a turbo.

really? i did not kow that a sc created power at higher rpms... i didnt know u could drive under the powerband like u said.:thinkin:(i knew about turbos being exhaust driven and scs by belt, i just didnt know the boost was created at the same rate)

wow i have it backwards. u definitely know way better than i do. thanks man

[Zboner]

just wonderin, but i have no clue about stalls... how did the stall help you out up top? i thought the stall was only good for launches, and after that its useless.


stall didnt help, i made no power down low what so ever, the stall lets you get to the desired RPM band quicker, my Cam made power up to 7,000RPM's, but the bad thing is the transmission(4l60's) do not like to be spun over 6,500 RPM's, so that was the delema, and why i switched to the LT1 car, more power down low and TQ so i can play on the street a lot more, the camaro had so much power up top, it kept pulling at speeds of 140 and i couldn't use the power and dont want to kill my self

[Zboner]

really? i did not kow that a sc created power at higher rpms... i didnt know u could drive under the powerband like u said.:thinkin:

wow i have it backwards. u definitely know way better than i do. thanks man


you got it, you can drive the SC cars under boost, its not running 6-7lbs of boost all the time. it has a vaccum on it also to suck the air in, if you get a chance to ride in a SC car do it, and make sure they have a gauge to watch it.

[ATCharming]

stall didnt help, i made no power down low what so ever, the stall lets you get to the desired RPM band quicker, my Cam made power up to 7,000RPM's, but the bad thing is the transmission(4l60's) do not like to be spun over 6,500 RPM's, so that was the delema, and why i switched to the LT1 car, more power down low and TQ so i can play on the street a lot more, the camaro had so much power up top, it kept pulling at speeds of 140 and i couldn't use the power and dont want to kill my self

awesome man! so stalls dont do anything if ur racing from a roll?

[ATCharming]

you got it, you can drive the SC cars under boost, its not running 6-7lbs of boost all the time. it has a vaccum on it also to suck the air in, if you get a chance to ride in a SC car do it, and make sure they have a gauge to watch it.

thanks for settin me straight. i dont know a single person with a turbod or sced car unfortunately... i dont even know of anyone with a really fast NA car either lol

[Zboner]

a turbo has to build the boost up, as to where if i push in my clutch, rev up to 6,500 rpm's my boost is already up to 7PSI in a instant

[ATCharming]

a turbo has to build the boost up, as to where if i push in my clutch, rev up to 6,500 rpm's my boost is already up to 7PSI in a instant

so wouldnt driving a turbo be more streetable? cuz it would take more rpms to make boost?

[Zboner]

awesome man! so stalls dont do anything if ur racing from a roll?


yes they do, its kinda hard for me to explaine it to you though, lol

im not a good teacher, if your cruising at 2,000 rpm's and your stall is so a 3,500, when you mash the gas the rpm's will jump to that stall speed.

[Zboner]

so wouldnt driving a turbo be more streetable? cuz it would take more rpms to make boost?


yes they both are streetable, i would rather have a turbo for a track car, i guess its persoanl prefferance

[ATCharming]

yes they do, its kinda hard for me to explaine it to you though, lol

im not a good teacher, if your cruising at 2,000 rpm's and your stall is so a 3,500, when you mash the gas the rpm's will jump to that stall speed.

ohh ok. but so with a stall, if ur at a stop and u hit the pedal, there is no instant throttle response since it has to get up to the stall speed before putting power down right?

lol, thread hijacking. after u answer that question im done with stalls, and we cna go back to na vs turbo lol

[Zboner]

ohh ok. but so with a stall, if ur at a stop and u hit the pedal, there is no instant throttle response since it has to get up to the stall speed before putting power down right?

lol, thread hijacking. after u answer that question im done with stalls, and we cna go back to na vs turbo lol


pretty much, get a ride in a car with a stall:snowboard:

[Mr. Luos]

Same power (TQ and HP) give me the N/A set-up.

[ATCharming]

Same power (TQ and HP) give me the N/A set-up.

cuz then u have the option of going FI while being NA at 500 :shrug:

in which case ur potential to make power is: :nilly::notworthy:

[Bouvers]

personally I'm thinking of going TT someday ... one of the main reasons I was thinking of doing this was because I was under the impression that TT makes more power with less boost then the SC at more boost... therefore being more efficient and safer... true or false?

[Mr. Luos]

Single turbo > twins

[LS1SSZ28]

i was actually talking ina race..who would win...

this is all hypothetical....i was just curious what is better 500 booste HP or 500 all motor

[ATCharming]

i was actually talking ina race..who would win...

this is all hypothetical....i was just curious what is better 500 booste HP or 500 all motor

same tq number?

[Bouvers]

Single turbo > twins

why do you prefer single as oppose to twin?

[Mr. Luos]

why do you prefer single as oppose to twin?
Heat. Space.

A correctly chosen single will do as well as the twins.

[Bouvers]

examples could help prove that point.

[LS1SSZ28]

same tq number?

yea...same trq and HP

does it make a difference one being made all motor, and one being made by boost?

[ATCharming]

yea...same trq and HP

does it make a difference one being made all motor, and one being made by boost?

actually yes.
its all about the powerband.
think about it this way... dont let me lose u. when ur talkin about hp and torque, ur discussing the MAX HP or MAX TQ throughought all rpms.

so say ur NA motor has consistent power throughout all rpms, and maxes at 500, but doesnt go much less than that.

now, ur turbo makes shitty power all throughouht rpms until that ONE POINT that it makes 500hp. (this is not true. its a radical, hypothetical example. im just sayin, its all about the powerband)

the entire set up will determine the power band, therefore without specifics, we cant tell u which will be better. the turbo could have a better powerband than the NA motor, or visa-versa... it all depends.

remember this: a car that pulls consistently through all rpms is more impressive than a car that pulls really hard at one point and not so much at other rpms.

i hope that wasnt confusing, i tried explaining the best i could

now if the quetion is: which will create a better powerband? na or turbo? it can go either way.

[LS1SSZ28]

actually yes.
its all about the powerband.
think about it this way... dont let me lose u. when ur talkin about hp and torque, ur discussing the MAX HP or MAX TQ throughought all rpms.

so say ur NA motor has consistent power throughout all rpms, and maxes at 500, but doesnt go much less than that.

now, ur turbo makes shitty power all throughouht rpms until that ONE POINT that it makes 500hp. (this is not true. its a radical, hypothetical example. im just sayin, its all about the powerband)

the entire set up will determine the power band, therefore without specifics, we cant tell u which will be better. the turbo could have a better powerband than the NA motor, or visa-versa... it all depends.

remember this: a car that pulls consistently through all rpms is more impressive than a car that pulls really hard at one point and not so much at other rpms.

i hope that wasnt confusing, i tried explaining the best i could

now if the quetion is: which will create a better powerband? na or turbo? it can go either way.

no doubt..made alot of sence...i have always wondered if NA power was better then FI power...but i guess it all depends

[slims00ls1z28]

ohh ok. but so with a stall, if ur at a stop and u hit the pedal, there is no instant throttle response since it has to get up to the stall speed before putting power down right?

lol, thread hijacking. after u answer that question im done with stalls, and we cna go back to na vs turbo lol


Not really with a stall it will pretty much jump to the flash speed just about instantly seeing how there is no drag on the engine while its slipping. I have a 3600 stall and If I romp it from a standstill the tach races to about 3700 and just pulls like a freight train pretty much instantly. Also if you keep your foot in it when the trans shifts the rpm's never drop below your stall speed. It's fun get in a high stalled car to really feel the difference it makes. You'll think you just did a motor swap.

Back on track though ya if the powerbands are equal then it's equal if one looks like a spike and the other a mountain the the mountain will win.

[Zboner]

Not really with a stall it will pretty much jump to the flash speed just about instantly seeing how there is no drag on the engine while its slipping. I have a 3600 stall and If I romp it from a standstill the tach races to about 3700 and just pulls like a freight train pretty much instantly. Also if you keep your foot in it when the trans shifts the rpm's never drop below your stall speed. It's fun get in a high stalled car to really feel the difference it makes. You'll think you just did a motor swap.

Back on track though ya if the powerbands are equal then it's equal if one looks like a spike and the other a mountain the the mountain will win.


thanks for explaining that to him, i did the best i could i cant put it into words that well, kinda have to take a ride in a stalled car to really understand how they work.

[slims00ls1z28]

Thats how I learned. I knew the basics and physics and thought the same thing until I installed one in mine. Best mod to date.

[Zboner]

yes, it would be hard to explaine how the impellers work and lock together to him, unless you have one cut open and showen how they work, kinda cool

[Dulluthkid_19]

Displacement being the same, assuming that the turbo'd application is chosen and installed correctly and not by some non-thinking dumbass with a welder - assuming that the turbine and compressor are sized correctly for the power goals and powerband needs...

I would say the turbocharged car *should* win in a race - all other things being equal. The reason being, as said before, is simple. Torque. Same horsepower, sure, but the FI engine will produce a lot more torque than a similar NA motor of the same size.

[ATCharming]

thank u slims. i understand it 100 times more. oh and zboner, its cool. u did ur best explainin it and u also helped out my basic understanding of it. thanks guys

btw, how high of a stall is too high?

[danziger]

Area under the curve for the win!
Peak numbers won't tell the story for either set-up, but as a generalization, turbo cars tend to pull harder up top.
As for blowers, you have two types with two very different personalities. Centrifugal blowers will make more boost with more RPM and tend to make their power up top. Roots/screw blowers make their boost nearly off idle.
Me, I went the bigger-inch N/A motor with a bit of nitrous on top...