Definition of a DSM...

[OnEbAdReDSS]

Diamond-Star Motors (commonly abbreviated to DSM) was an automobile-manufacturing joint venture between the Chrysler Corporation and Mitsubishi Motors Corporation (MMC). The name came from the parent companies' respective logos: three diamonds (Mitsubishi) and a pentastar (Chrysler). Diamond-Star Motors was officially renamed Mitsubishi Motor Manufacturing of America, Inc. (MMMA) in 1995, and since 2002 the plant's official title has been Mitsubishi Motors North America, Inc. (MMNA) Manufacturing Division.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_Star_Motors

RESEARCH HELPS ALOT! ;)

Also... 3000GT,Stealth,Talon,Eclipse,Lasers... ALL DSM! just to clear out those dumbasses who were argueing on the last thread...

[OnEbAdReDSS]

No one has anything 2 say?? Just wondering..

[Wesman]

Nothing better than early 90's Chrysler quality and Mistubishi engineering.

WORST of both worlds, DSM was a failure completely.

[AKIRA]

Damn Wesman where were you in that other thread?

I cant believe it was closed, secondgearscratch fended off all the newbie trolls quite well. Only times it was getting out of hand was when the addresses were being exchanged.

[Wesman]

Damn Wesman where were you in that other thread?

I cant believe it was closed, secondgearscratch fended off all the newbie trolls quite well. Only times it was getting out of hand was when the addresses were being exchanged.

Yea, I didn't see that part.

I wasn't around to help out secondgearscratch unfortunately.

The poor guy was surrounded by import toting morons, most of them should have just been banned. Pretty obvious that they joined just to support 3000GTs, look at their usernames lol.

[67CamaroRSSS]

Hey now. I got a lick in. The walking crank bit. I was at work though and couldn't stay long.

[Darkstealth]

Do you all eat paint or something?

From 3si.org

No, the 3S's are not DSM's. All DSM's were made in the DSM plant in Normal, Ill. All 3S's were assembeled in Mitsubishi 's Nagoya, Japan plant. From the DSM FAQ: DSM - Diamond Star Motors A joint effort by Mitsubishi (three diamonds) and the Chrysler Corporation (penta-star) to build some of the most incredible automobiles in the world. The (following) vehicles were produced, the Eagle Talon, Mitsubishi Eclipse, and Plymouth Laser. DSM cars (were all) assembled in Normal, Illinois.

The 3000GT/Stealth was built in JAPAN. Japan /= America.

And the crankwalk thing, that was on the DSM turbo 4 cylinders, primarily the second generation turbo eclipse/talon motors. The 3000GT/Stealth does NOT have that motor. The 6g72 /= 4g63T.
-Dan

[SpooledYa]

Actually 2000SuperSportMaro, there's one flaw in your first post. The 3000GT and Dodge Stealth are actually not DSM's and I'll try to tell you why without coming off like a jerk. First, the wikipedia entry you posted states nothing about the 3000GT/Stealth. It states, in a direct quote "DSM can also refer to three of the vehicles produced by Diamond-Star Motors, the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon, and Plymouth Laser." The Diamond-Star production of those cars was a joint effort, drawing inspiration from prior Mitsubishi designs (Galant VR4: aka "father of all DSM's")

Secondly, the 3000GT and Stealth cars are based off the Starion/Conquest G54B platform whereas DSM's are based off of the Galant VR4 4G63 platform. All DSM's (Evo included) have the 4g63 motors, up until the recent generation of eclipses (2000 up i believe) where they started using the 6g72's. The 3/S has the 6g72 motor, it is its own completely separate platform in regards to DSM's, regardless of similar body stylings. Although, it is easy to confuse the two. Regardless, DSM and 3S are two entirely separate entities...DSM's being built in Normal, IL and 3S's being manufactured in Nagoya, Japan.

Diamond-Star motors was a miserable effort between the two companies to create cheap, quick cars that ultimately turned out to be flaming piles. Notorious for crankwalk in 2nd gens, among other quirks. Comparing DSM's to 3S's is like comparing a Firebird to a Fiero. Or a Camaro to a Monte Carlo. Blech.


Hope I didn't come off as too much of a jerk, just wanted to clear that up without it getting ridiculously out of hand like in the other thread. Just a few little known facts about those cars, I had one before i got my TA and researched the shit out of it :)

[JimmyJJ]

bzzt wrong again... based off the G54B platform... not...

Thats almost as misinformed as calling it a DSM.

It replaced the Conquest/Starion in the line only by name. It was a totally new platform.

[shady milkman]

damn this thread is getting gay

[secondgearscratch]

thanks for the kind words guys.

but now i have to uphold my e thug name to the trolls by saying......


shut the fuck up!:typer:

[SpooledYa]

bzzt wrong again... based off the G54B platform... not...

Thats almost as misinformed as calling it a DSM.

It replaced the Conquest/Starion in the line only by name. It was a totally new platform.



Exactly, a totally new platform. It's just BASED off of the G54b, it isn't a direct extension of it.



-As for the rest of you guys, I'm wondering where you got all of your information from. Seems any true car enthusiast would look up the facts before shooting their mouths off like a uneducated hick. Typing in big bold letters and cursing a lot doesn't mean you're right, it just makes you look like an idiot. Definately a turn off.

[JimmyJJ]

this is like saying the chevy silverado is based off the camaro.

The G54b has nothing to do with the 3s. Nothing, nada zip.

Prove it was based off the G54b :) this i got to see

[Wesman]

Exactly, a totally new platform. It's just BASED off of the G54b, it isn't a direct extension of it.



-As for the rest of you guys, I'm wondering where you got all of your information from. Seems any true car enthusiast would look up the facts before shooting their mouths off like a uneducated hick. Typing in big bold letters and cursing a lot doesn't mean you're right, it just makes you look like an idiot. Definately a turn off.

You are not one to be calling people out for being "hicks" or "idiots".

You are trolling LS1.com to brag about Mitsubishis. You are not one to be calling anyone else out :wwf:

[JimmyJJ]

its a free country to call people out... just back that chit up :)

[ss~zoso~ss]

DSM - Doesnt Stay Moving

[AKIRA]

Is this the thread about where a car is made and the location distiguishes about if its a true DSM or not? I forget the details and I am not reading the shit over, besides, I believe this thread is a branch off an old, closed one.

Anyway, when it was fresh, I brought this thread up to my friend whos got an EVO and he stated the same shit about some cars that are mitsus not necessarily being "DSMs."

[secondgearscratch]

first of all, there is no real explanation for the 3000gt and the stealth to not be "dsm" these are trolls quoting websites they belong to that are probably so fucking retarted you couldnt bear to read the tech sections. so it was made in 2 different places.... dsm isnt a body type like the fan boys so feverishly think, its a collaboration between auto makers. looking at it from that point of view, it stands to reason that a 3000 gt that looks similar to a Stealth, shares the same engine, transmission, suspension, drivetrain, and everything else would be a product of Diamond Star Motors. so i dont care if one was built in the usa and one in japan, until i hear it from Mitsubishi or Chrysler i still wont believe it or care. whats pathetic is this is the only argument the trolls have.
so once again trolls.....

SHUT THE FUCK UP!

[AKIRA]

It isnt much of an argument really.

The way I see it, a discussion was introduced. Someone labels a car a DSM and another says it isnt. Now you got a discussion on a tangent. A basic "I am right, youre wrong" debate on semantics.

[secondgearscratch]

It isnt much of an argument really.

The way I see it, a discussion was introduced. Someone labels a car a DSM and another says it isnt. Now you got a discussion on a tangent. A basic "I am right, youre wrong" debate on semantics.

actually, these are the same trolls from the thread i was in that was closed. it WAS a debate until i get called a fucking retard, and then im not sure what the best course of action is to take. the point im trying to make is that i dont believe anything they say because they dont have the experience to back it up. looking up facts on hardly credible websites and posting them in a "discussion" only perpetuates an argument when their theories get blown to bits. then they start the ricer braggadoccio and that wont fly with me. i know what i know cuz i did it. there shouldnt be a debate on whether they are dsm or not. the point still remains that they are notoriously unreliable and of poor build quality. that argument wasnt even an argument....how can they debate fact? how can they debate something they have no experience with?

[shady milkman]

:toetap: hey scratch ...you need to edit your posts and not use profanity..any section besides the AAG section can be googled...i agree with you 100% but you gotta get that language out of here..to keep the admins happy :yup:

[secondgearscratch]

:toetap: hey scratch ...you need to edit your posts and not use profanity..any section besides the AAG section can be googled...i agree with you 100% but you gotta get that language out of here..to keep the admins happy :yup:

thanks for the tip. i will just be so f----- ridiculously estute that no one will understand what im saying anyway.

hey shady...out of curiostiy, what do you drive? i have never heard....always wondered because you know a whole lot:notworthy:

[shady milkman]

thanks for the tip. i will just be so f----- ridiculously estute that no one will understand what im saying anyway.

hey shady...out of curiostiy, what do you drive? i have never heard....always wondered because you know a whole lot:notworthy:

:blush: thanks..used to have a 99 black t/a :love: but i had to sell it..mom reasons :lol: now i am driving a 01 grand am gt...but i am getting a 98-99 t/a pretty soon.

[JimmyJJ]

thanks for the tip. i will just be so f----- ridiculously estute that no one will understand what im saying anyway.


Because your still clueless... :)

Just because you THINK Stealths and 3000gt's were produced in a DSM plant doesnt mean they are.

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-makeandmodel.htm#whatexactlyisaDSM

No cars made in a fully mitsubishi owned plant that share no similarities worth mentioning with DSM cars were ever considered DSM's.

The Dodge Stealth was just a rebodied 3000gt. Many car companies do this, does that make them all DSM's? Mitsu makes Isuzu's... does that make it a fricking DSM? Isuzu makes Honda's, does that make it a HIM (Honda-Isuzu Motors) vehicle. GM made Toyotas... GTM's?

And yes all DSM's share similarities(of which the 3000gt and Stealth have none to speak of ).

DSM vehicles were produced in Normal Illinois. Chrysler and Mitsu stated this.

DSM vehicles ceased in July 95

http://www.mitsubishimanufacturing.com/about/history/index.asp

And yes the Mitsu officials have stated that 3000gt's were never "DSM"'s.

[secondgearscratch]

Because your still clueless... :)

Just because you THINK Stealths and 3000gt's were produced in a DSM plant doesnt mean they are.

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-makeandmodel.htm#whatexactlyisaDSM

No cars made in a fully mitsubishi owned plant that share no similarities worth mentioning with DSM cars were ever considered DSM's.

The Dodge Stealth was just a rebodied 3000gt. Many car companies do this, does that make them all DSM's? Mitsu makes Isuzu's... does that make it a fricking DSM? Isuzu makes Honda's, does that make it a HIM (Honda-Isuzu Motors) vehicle. GM made Toyotas... GTM's?

And yes all DSM's share similarities(of which the 3000gt and Stealth have none to speak of ).

DSM vehicles were produced in Normal Illinois. Chrysler and Mitsu stated this.

DSM vehicles ceased in July 95

http://www.mitsubishimanufacturing.com/about/history/index.asp

And yes the Mitsu officials have stated that 3000gt's were never "DSM"'s.

guess you didnt read the other part. this IS your only argument. and i STILL dont care. i had one. it was a mistake. and since you are talking about something that (oh my) you probably have never worked on or driven, its a mistake for you to do so. heres some food for thought: lets say a t/a and a camaro are basically the same (just incase you wanna look that up on 3si.com or wherever, they are. saved ya the trouble) why dont we just say for arguments sake that these two were built chicago (canada in case 3si doesnt know), but the corvette zo6 was built in alsassafrass county, alabama (bowling green, kentucky, just so you dont have to reference 3si again). now what if they were all made by chevy and pontiac, and this was called PONCHEV (technically they are GM, which stands for General Motors in the U.S.A. didnt know if 3si would have that in the database, rather small car company, and american too). lets say that it would be perfectly NORMAL (not illinois, so please refrain from citing where "real" dsm's came from) to deduce from this that all 3 vehicles, though they may share only slight things, would belong under the same umbrella because both of their manufacturers worked in conjunction with one another. so once again....you know what, im done. its obvious theres no showing you the light. so i will part by saying that this is an LS1 website. make sure you look up what we're all about on (3si.com).
peace

[AKIRA]

Because your still clueless... :)

Just because you THINK Stealths and 3000gt's were produced in a DSM plant doesnt mean they are.

http://members.shaw.ca/costall/1000Q/answers-makeandmodel.htm#whatexactlyisaDSM

No cars made in a fully mitsubishi owned plant that share no similarities worth mentioning with DSM cars were ever considered DSM's.

The Dodge Stealth was just a rebodied 3000gt. Many car companies do this, does that make them all DSM's? Mitsu makes Isuzu's... does that make it a fricking DSM? Isuzu makes Honda's, does that make it a HIM (Honda-Isuzu Motors) vehicle. GM made Toyotas... GTM's?

And yes all DSM's share similarities(of which the 3000gt and Stealth have none to speak of ).

DSM vehicles were produced in Normal Illinois. Chrysler and Mitsu stated this.

DSM vehicles ceased in July 95

http://www.mitsubishimanufacturing.com/about/history/index.asp

And yes the Mitsu officials have stated that 3000gt's were never "DSM"'s.

Thats a pretty good, clear, non-argumentative write up. And thanks for the links!

[jomo]

Production of the Talon went on till 1998 and Eclipses 1999, the turbo all wheel drive versions. Yes I own one and it has been a good car no major problems with it. I also have it moded a little, it's a great winter beater while my Camaro sleeps.

[Darkstealth]

guess you didnt read the other part. this IS your only argument. and i STILL dont care. i had one. it was a mistake. and since you are talking about something that (oh my) you probably have never worked on or driven, its a mistake for you to do so. heres some food for thought: lets say a t/a and a camaro are basically the same (just incase you wanna look that up on 3si.com or wherever, they are. saved ya the trouble) why dont we just say for arguments sake that these two were built chicago (canada in case 3si doesnt know), but the corvette zo6 was built in alsassafrass county, alabama (bowling green, kentucky, just so you dont have to reference 3si again). now what if they were all made by chevy and pontiac, and this was called PONCHEV (technically they are GM, which stands for General Motors in the U.S.A. didnt know if 3si would have that in the database, rather small car company, and american too). lets say that it would be perfectly NORMAL (not illinois, so please refrain from citing where "real" dsm's came from) to deduce from this that all 3 vehicles, though they may share only slight things, would belong under the same umbrella because both of their manufacturers worked in conjunction with one another. so once again....you know what, im done. its obvious theres no showing you the light. so i will part by saying that this is an LS1 website. make sure you look up what we're all about on (3si.com).
peace

I've worked on DSMs, only one Camaro, a few mustangs, and done everything short of pull the motor in my Stealth (twice now).

I can tell you with all confidence, that you sir, are a complete idiot. :true:

Saying that GM and the DSM corp. are similar is like saying a Mustang and a Camaro are the same. One is NOT like the other, so stop thinking of it like that, step outside of your tiny little mental box for just a moment. Listen, just because you drive a Slowmaro doesn't make you any better then you were before, it just means your car is faster. I've read a few of your posts, and you have nothing to contribute, ever, except comments that are fit for a fifth grader berating another idiot.
-Dan

[secondgearscratch]

I've worked on DSMs, only one Camaro, a few mustangs, and done everything short of pull the motor in my Stealth (twice now).

I can tell you with all confidence, that you sir, are a complete idiot. :true:

Saying that GM and the DSM corp. are similar is like saying a Mustang and a Camaro are the same. One is NOT like the other, so stop thinking of it like that, step outside of your tiny little mental box for just a moment. Listen, just because you drive a Slowmaro doesn't make you any better then you were before, it just means your car is faster. I've read a few of your posts, and you have nothing to contribute, ever, except comments that are fit for a fifth grader berating another idiot.
-Dan

i guess you still wanna tango eh?

first of all, my analogy was PURELY theoretical, hence the stretches of truth and creative names used. i dont have to step out of my mental box. i know what quality means, i know what ease of labor and installation means, and a dsm doesnt fit the bill. i could give a crap what you say buddy. i have owned 5 cars. if you read any other posts, i never said i hated dsm's you annoying fan boy, i simply said they were unreliable when not completely built to the T. i had fun in my GSX, it handled amazingly well and had enough power from the 16g turbo i had to put a smile on my face. the problem was not driving the car, it was keeping it running for long periods of time. something always went askew with it and i never even tracked the sucker, barely was able to run it on the street because it was up on the lift all the time. so before you turn this into yet another mindless fan boy thread, it would benefit you to know what youre arguing about.

dsm turbo 4=quick and fun, yet unreliable. difficult to work on

ls1= fast and very fun, reliable, easier to work on.

are you gonna sit here and tell me that a transversely mounted engine is easier to wrench than a longitudal one? that adjusting timing gears that are jammed up against the bay wall is easier than putting a deep socket on the crank bolt and adjusting the timing chain?

if this helps, i owned an 86 toyota pickup and LOVED it completely. mark one for me in the import section if this is really bothering you....

[Darkstealth]

All cars have annoying 'things' with them. Build quality on most cars is pretty good, but you HAVE to look at the previous owners to really understand which cars are 'shitty' and which ones aren't. My brother had a GSX, bought it with 90K miles on the clock, and oddly enough it ran like a charm every day for ~3 years, even after some heavy modification. The car had one previous owner, who garage kept it day in and day out with every single thing cataloged. A different GSX our friend had bought was owned by another young man, guy didn't know how to take care of a car, and oddly enough it fell apart REAL quick. I've seen it happen with any car, turbo cars get it worse usually because dumbfuck owners go 'ZOMG BOOST CONTROLLER OMGOMGPOWER!' and well, that really doesn't need explaining.

And as for ease of installation? Long tube headers on a Mustang (not 100% sure on Camaros, but I'd imagine it'd be similar) is an annoying and lengthy task to do. Header on a DSM? Cake. Headers on a 3/S? Honestly not so bad. Cake. Turbo install on a DSM? Cake. Proper turbo install on just about any domestic? Not fun. Sure, maybe overall a domestic is easier to work on, but both cars have their ups and downs. I kick myself every time I have to pull my tranny or transfer case, and would LOVE to have it like my friends Mustang which is nothing more then a support subframe piece, and a few bolts. I laughed like crazy when we had to pull a heater core out of his car to replace it though, that was NUTS.

So listen, I'm not here to spew shit like 'my car is pwnzor bcuz it has AWD!', I know better. I love Fbodies, if I had the money I'd love to get a LS1 Trans Am WS6 M6 with black on black. Or a new Z06, hotness. I PERSONALLY love being able to take my car out in a foot of snow and slide around with some semblance of control, only real reason I didn't go RWD. That and I love 1.7-1.6 60' times on street tires any time any where.

However, you, and many of your LS1 board members here seem to be ignorant on so many things, which is fine I guess, but it's like they brag about it. The term rice is more overused then the N word in rap music, it really has lost its meaning, save it for real ricers, not the intelligent import owners. Trust me, for every retard with a new exhaust tip, I find a domestic guy thinks his stock 5.0 is still good for mid-high 13's after 150,000 miles and no rebuild.

So, now I'm done with my yearly :soapbox: .
-Dan

[secondgearscratch]

buddy, im not inexperienced nor am i ignorant when it comes to imports. its not the cars themselves, rather the things moronic people do to them. anything facing forward on any car is cake, thats obvious. good for you if your dsm ran like a charm, mine didnt, and i had alot of friends who had them and they had even more problems than i did. im not saying the domestic is the end all car, all im saying is that the car you so feverishly defend runs nothing more than a 15 stock. they can be made into fast track cars but it takes a good amount of money and a solid bottom end to handle the boost you would be running. there will always be a difference of opinion here, look around, youre on an ls1 website. i assure you i am not ignorant in regards to most any car, and the info i regurgitate is from personal experience. im happy for you that you have a stealth and liked your dsm, and once again, i grew fond of mine. but i paid 4k for it with 100,000 miles, a rebuilt transfer case, a 16g turbo, rebuilt head, and a new clutch. the transfer case leaked, the head gasket blew on 13 psi, the turbo feed line broke and the turbo seized. the belt tensioner broke and then broke the power steering pump and then the radiator. these things happened in very mild driving conditions.

you may not be a troll, so just go about your business. i promise you the only argument you can make with me is the 3000gt not being a dsm. we had two different cars that were previously treated two different ways. there is no right answer here

see ya around the boards

[Wesman]

And as for ease of installation? Long tube headers on a Mustang (not 100% sure on Camaros, but I'd imagine it'd be similar) is an annoying and lengthy task to do. Header on a DSM? Cake. Headers on a 3/S? Honestly not so bad. Cake. Turbo install on a DSM? Cake. Proper turbo install on just about any domestic? Not fun. Sure, maybe overall a domestic is easier to work on, but both cars have their ups and downs. I kick myself every time I have to pull my tranny or transfer case, and would LOVE to have it like my friends Mustang which is nothing more then a support subframe piece, and a few bolts. I laughed like crazy when we had to pull a heater core out of his car to replace it though, that was NUTS.

Working on a Stealth/3000GT is a joke. No, really, it is. Because you can't do anything on those cars. Not only is the motor facing the completely wrong way, making it absolutely impossible to access just about everything, but just about everything breaks. Turbos seize up with less than 100K on them, transfer cases leak/blow up, the tranmissions are complete garbage, boost leaks in places you can't even see, and just about every fluid possible leaks from the damn things. The build quality is on par with a mid 80's Chrysler, the list goes on forever. Bottom line is they are generally very unreliable and are a bitch to work on. Parts are also relatively expensive.

Just because you like your car doesn't mean everyone else does, or that your one experience represents everyone elses. DSM's and Stealths/3000GT's are regarded by most as unreliable, poorly built vehicles. Your one experience doesn't change anything in the overall scheme of things.

So listen, I'm not here to spew shit like 'my car is pwnzor bcuz it has AWD!', I know better. I love Fbodies, if I had the money I'd love to get a LS1 Trans Am WS6 M6 with black on black. Or a new Z06, hotness. I PERSONALLY love being able to take my car out in a foot of snow and slide around with some semblance of control, only real reason I didn't go RWD. That and I love 1.7-1.6 60' times on street tires any time any where.

I don't drive my car in the snow/salt/crappy weather, so thats totally irrelevent. Those 1.7 60' times come at the expense of your clutch, transfer case, transmission, and CV axles. Count me out of that one, thats an expensive repair bill right there, and totally not worth taking someone off the line who is just going to walk you hard after the 60' mark anyway.

[JimmyJJ]

you have no clue. Working on 3s isnt hard. I can have the engine out in under an hour. You just dont have a clue what your doing.

And you can get to pretty much everything

Sure ripping a v8 out is easier but it still takes about an hour.

turbos lock up at 100k hah wrong.
Transfer cases leak? Yeah they can the dealer will give you a new one for free. That was a factory recall.
trannies? Well yeah if you cant shift then you will break any tranny
Boost leaks? Cmon keep grasping... are you telling me you cant plug a hole?
cv axles? please they hold 500+ hp all day long.

I will admit full out launches can add wear on tear on the car but you need to remember this wasnt built to be a drag car. It can corner also :)

You guys need to stop buying cars off 17 year olds who trashed the living hell out of them. I don't know many 15 year old cars being trashed on a daily basis for 100k+ miles and not expect them to have problems.

How many 91-92 Irocs are still running in top shape? not that they had 300 awd hp. But I only see a few show car creampuffs running around all.

And you expect a awd/aws/twin turbo/300-320 hp v6 to just motor on forever? Please

This is the same for DSM's. You idiots are comparing 1991-1992 cars with 2000+ F bodies... Of COURSE they are going to have problems compared to a new car. 10 years is alot of time driving and beating on a car... Performance comes at a cost. If you want reliability go buy a honda accord.

[Wesman]

you have no clue. Working on 3s isnt hard. I can have the engine out in under an hour. You just dont have a clue what your doing.

Right. Nobody has a clue except for you. You have all the answers. You are the end to end all. Give us a break.

turbos lock up at 100k hah wrong.

So my friends 96 3000GT's turbo didn't lock up. Whatever you say mitsubishi fanboy :rolleyes:

Its well documented that the turbos go out on those cars at around 100K miles. Deny it if you want, you can't change reality.

Transfer cases leak? Yeah they can the dealer will give you a new one for free. That was a factory recall.

Yea, sure they will. Just like they won't void your warranty for parking your Evo at a racing event. Mitsubishi is the worst car company in existance, good luck getting anything out of them.

trannies? Well yeah if you cant shift then you will break any tranny

Those transmissions are complete garbage. They can blow out under normal conditions, try launching at the track and its all done.

Boost leaks? Cmon keep grasping... are you telling me you cant plug a hole?

Yea, try plugging multiple holes and cracks that you can't find, on the back of a motor thats been shoehorned into an engine bay by a bunch of retards (mitsubishi engineers). Boost leaks are neverending on those engines. You fix one and something else starts leaking.

cv axles? please they hold 500+ hp all day long.

Keep making things up. And since when do CV axles hold Horsepower?? They are rated to hold torque, thats what snaps them. You have no idea what you are talking about.

I will admit full out launches can add wear on tear on the car but you need to remember this wasnt built to be a drag car. It can corner also

Its a 3750lb nose heavy car. Its doesn't handle worth anything, its like a boat plowing into turns, all the weight it up front.

You guys need to stop buying cars off 17 year olds who trashed the living hell out of them. I don't know many 15 year old cars being trashed on a daily basis for 100k+ miles and not expect them to have problems.

I know people who have taken care of them, and they still have problems. The cars are built like shit. The built quality is terrible and the components are garbage. They break no matter what. Why are you trying to convince people of something that they know you are wrong about??

How many 91-92 Irocs are still running in top shape? not that they had 300 awd hp. But I only see a few show car creampuffs running around all.

3rd gen F-bodies aren't exactly a prime example of good build quality. However, compared to the 3000GT/Stealth, they are built pretty damn well. And thats not saying a lot.

And you expect a awd/aws/twin turbo/300-320 hp v6 to just motor on forever? Please

When its built like crap in the first place, hell no.

This is the same for DSM's. You idiots are comparing 1991-1992 cars with 2000+ F bodies... Of COURSE they are going to have problems compared to a new car. 10 years is alot of time driving and beating on a car... Performance comes at a cost. If you want reliability go buy a honda accord.

Dude you need to get this through your head - everyone already knows that 3000GTs/Stealths are crappy cars. You aren't going to convice anyone of anything different with your bullshit reasoning. Its practically a fact by now, anyone thats ever worked on one or owned one knows that. Besides you apparently, but fanboys are often blind to reality.

[JimmyJJ]

well you never won any debate awards...

I dont care if you think your everyone but keep it up :)

Its official, your clueless. It gets a bit tiring argueing with a 3 year old.

go do some more research cause youve never seen a 3s car. I can post proof of my facts. You want videos? there are plenty.

heres your rebuttle..

nah uh!!!

[secondgearscratch]

MODS, close this thread.

i think we all remember the epic SECONDGEAR AND THE TROLLS OF THE INTERIM from a month ago.

i, for one, do not have the patience nor the time for another go around. it will only get worse from here on out and im not getting any more red ink over this tireless and irrelevant subject.

to JimmyJ, i have nothing against you. im trying to do us all a favor.
trust me on this one.