AWD Jap Turbos vs LS1s?

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

Yo, I've been checking out these forums for a while thinking I'd buy an LS1. (I currently own an 85 Z28). I've finnaly got into a better financial situation and was looking into buying a 2001 WS6.

I was just wondering how it 'feels' in the driver's seat of an LS1. I've test drove one or two, but with respect to the dealer sitting next to me as I drove it, I didn't really hammer on it. I have a few younger friends that swear up and down that getting such a car as a WS6 is a waste. They're all fans of those 'rice' cars. Now my loyalty has always been to american muscle....but my friends have constantly tried to convice me that getting an AWD Turbo car (eclipse, vr4, wrx, ect) would be cooler and faster. I realise that 'cool' is a point of view and matter of opinion, but Faster is not. The idea being that the AWD allows these cars an advantage in the "DIG" and getting outa the hole faster, and the turbos and OHC setups allow for that "roll" power.


Just thought I'd ask the experts...what's ya'lls thoughts on all of this. Thanks alot.

[Tyler_LS1]

Its like sitting in a "cock pit" with a monster engine if front of you, with access to more power than most AWD cars.

when i was in search for a fast car it had crossed my mind getting a ricer, but only for a split second, im a die hard Chevy guy and i had to have a V8.

I would say LS1. You wont be disappointed. Trust Me.

Good luck!

[Wesman]

Dude don't listen to your immature ricer friends. They don't have a clue. They are the same people that think LS1's are no different than 305 Camaro's from the 80's. They are ricers, obviously they don't like American cars nor have any idea how fast they are.

Do yourself a favor and stay away from anything Japanese. They look like crap (IMO), are slow in stock form, espensive to mod, break when you mod them, and sound like complete garbage. To me thats pointless.

It wasn't even a consideration for me when I bought my car. Lets see - V8 RWD American Muscle car, or rice burning Nippon economy car with 4 cylinders and a fart can?? Only a true ricer would choose the latter.

[Red4Mula]

Dude don't listen to your immature ricer friends. They don't have a clue. They are the same people that think LS1's are no different than 305 Camaro's from the 80's. They are ricers, obviously they don't like American cars nor have any idea how fast they are.

Do yourself a favor and stay away from anything Japanese. They look like crap (IMO), are slow in stock form, espensive to mod, break when you mod them, and sound like complete garbage. To me thats pointless.

It wasn't even a consideration for me when I bought my car. Lets see - V8 RWD American Muscle car, or rice burning Nippon economy car with 4 cylinders and a fart can?? Only a true ricer would choose the latter.

+1:drivin:

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

Well thanks for all the imput. I guess that answered most of my questions. Heh "think ls1's are no dif than 305 camaros from the 80", I think I've just been insulted?:blowme: It's ok tho, my Z28 doesn't run half the time and I have to use my wife's Galant:dodge:

Anyways my final question is whether or not the AWD makes any difference at all vs a RWD?

[zero_proto]

yeah man i would go ls1 all the way. Alot cheaper than alot of the import cars, and best bang for your buck. Most of those cars stated earlier have problems, vr4's are biyyacchhh to take care of but they are nice. WRX's are not that bad ass easy to blow off even heavily modded ones, when it comes to the subies all you have to worry about are the 06 sti's............besides that they are owned. Now as for the eclipse gsx that is a pretty stout car and the 4g63 has been around for a ages, that would not be a bad buy at all but to find a gsx in good shape is hard as hell even a gst is pretty hard to find in good shape. All in all i would go with the ls1. Stock 13's if you know how to drive, i can drive my ss pretty good and have beat many awds , shit i even beat them on the launch, you just gotta know your car.
Shit buy you a nice ws6 for 13,000 and then buy a nice nitrous setup for about 700-800 and spray a 100 shot all day no problem, there you have yourself a 12 sec car. Or get a head and cam right of the bat, like the patriot performance ls6 stage 2 head and 224/226 112 lsa cam for a bout 1700 and then an intake unless you get one with an ls6 already on it. You'll be blowing those awd drive cars out of the water. Also go M-6, just my preference. With 4 more grand you can have a 450+whp 410wtq+ls1....throw a 100 shot on top of that and still be in the safe zone and be over 500 rwhp and 500rwtq............or just 50 to be on the safe side:firedevil:

[hutch1999]

DRs eliminate our dig problem against AWDs

[zero_proto]

Well thanks for all the imput. I guess that answered most of my questions. Heh "think ls1's are no dif than 305 camaros from the 80", I think I've just been insulted?:blowme: It's ok tho, my Z28 doesn't run half the time and I have to use my wife's Galant:dodge:

Anyways my final question is whether or not the AWD makes any difference at all vs a RWD?

you can feel the difference between an awd drive and a rwd in the turns, now this whole deal about f-bods not being able to handle............bull
Some good shocks springs and sfc's mated with some sticky rubber that car will handle like no other. From a launch no matter what it is always a drivers race, know how to drive your car. For christ sakes i've beaten autos off the line with more power than me. Nothing to me beats the feeling of a rwd v8. When i drive a awd it is nice and fun a little edgy because it eats turns, but so can the rwd's just has a different feel........plus nothing beats doing donuts and being able to slide around a corner with ease. If your into subtle want to spend more money and don't care about much power then go import if not go ls1.
I love evo's man and they are awesome cars just way more exspensive than an ls1. I mean for me it was not even a question, i got 2 camaros!!!!:firedevil:

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

Ya but it's not like I'm doing a road race in these cars heh, I know it's a bit immature but I've been known to hang out in parking lots with other car guys and pick up some quick races with whoever wants to 'run em'. And as far as the 'dig'...even with Drags I hear the FBody rearends are hella weak. =(

[hutch1999]

just dont constantly abuse it and u will be fine

[z28punk]

i used to be in the same situation as u dude. i was in the market for a fast car and i drove a couple WRX's and GSX's. then i got a job as a student tech at a chevy dealer. i am the apprentice to the corvette specialist. he does F-bodies too. the first time i drove an F-body it was awesome. nothing like it. imports can be fun, but they lack a little thing called Torque. torque is addiciting.

[2001hawk]

I may be a little biased but I chose ls1's twice. LOL. I have had a wrx sti race me, don't know what year, but he got destroyed. He wanted to go from rolls, so that is what we did, and it was nowhere close. Keep in mind this was with my WS-6. I have owned and raced my firehawk for around 3 years and it still has the stock 10-bolt. I have put around 30,000 miles on it and the only things I have had to change for mechanical failure reasons are a throttle position switch, the computer, and a cat (under manufacturer warranty). The firehawk puts 388 to the ground and has the m6 most people say that it should have already broken a long time ago, but like it was said it is how you treat it. If you try 5000 rpm launches with dr's on it you are going to break it but you are kinda trying to at that point. Anyway that is my $0.02.

BTW, I had a buddy when I was in the military that had a GSX eclipse that he had done a few mods to and he couldn't keep a clutch in the car. He probably rode to work with me as much as he drove his own car.

[Raoul-Duke]

get a ls1...there are some imports out there that deserve respect....but nothin can be built up for a better price than f-bods...plus you get the looks too

[JHayesLS1]

my best friend has a 06 STI with a turbo back exhaust and he swears he will beat a stock WS-6 all day from a roll or dig, car is fast and fun to drive but ask yourself this..
What is a sports car to you? 4 door sedan with a wing, suspension, and a turbo'ed engine? Or is it a 2 door, t-tops, aggressive body design that looks likes its coming to kick some ass and can back up its looks? What sound do you like the low pitched sound of a 3-inch exhaust or a smooth V8 rumble. Do you want your car to be noticed? If you ask me when I see a WRX or STI I don't know which it is until I see the logo's, the Trans Am however you know immediately what it is upon glancing at it. Get some pictures of the cars and compare them side by side and decided which looks better to you.

[secondgearscratch]

there are practically no words to describe what it feels like even feathering the throttle in an ls1. its fucking madness!!!! Not to mention when you hammer it you may pee alittle. i had a 90 awd eclipse and yes it handled bc of the awd but ls1 cars handle too. get alittle suspension and you'll be good. there is no bullshit delay waiting for the little peeshooter turbo to come into boost to try to make the little four banger engine move. its worthless, and i said its worthless bc i had both and damnit they suck. some will argue that evos and sti's are the shit but i beg to differ. i respect both and their technology but i have driven both also. 2.0 liter, 2.5 liter. even with evo's big turbo. it's a 2.0 liter. it may rocket out of the hole but after the hole shot it will most definetely bog because a big turbo is top end and the torque they make is not much. i have owned alot of cars and driven alot of cars and i have NEVER experienced such a well rounded motor like the ls1. it screams off the line even when it doesnt hook up, the mid rpm power still pulls you back hard and top end. you can wake this mother fucker up in 6th gear at 80doing 1800 rpms! Madness! Dont get me wrong, i totally respect the evos and sti's we have in the forums. This is simply a difference of opinion.

LS1 LS1 LS1 LS1 :happy:

[EE1983]

Drive both, see what you like. I wouldnt buy a car because my friends say its cool. Also, unless its an STi or EVO, I wouldnt waste time with GSXs, WRXs and stuff like that. They will break and are expensive to mod. Id rather have an LS1 over them anyday.

Also, what type of response did you think you were going to get from an LS1 sight asking about getting a 4cylinder or the LS1? LOL

[JHayesLS1]

Drive both, see what you like. I wouldnt buy a car because my friends say its cool. Also, unless its an STi or EVO, I wouldnt waste time with GSXs, WRXs and stuff like that. They will break and are expensive to mod. Id rather have an LS1 over them anyday.

Also, what type of response did you think you were going to get from an LS1 sight asking about getting a 4cylinder or the LS1? LOL


I know right, go into the Evo forums and ask which to own lol. Like EE said, STi and Evo's are the way to go for imports, hell he has cams in his Evo and runs 11.9 (if I remember your other post) thats crazy fast. Its just preference man honestly, Muscle car, tuner car.

[ndt/oos]

my best friend has a 06 STI with a turbo back exhaust and he swears he will beat a stock WS-6 all day from a roll or dig, car is fast and fun to drive but ask yourself this..
What is a sports car to you? 4 door sedan with a wing, suspension, and a turbo'ed engine? Or is it a 2 door, t-tops, aggressive body design that looks likes its coming to kick some ass and can back up its looks? What sound do you like the low pitched sound of a 3-inch exhaust or a smooth V8 rumble. Do you want your car to be noticed? If you ask me when I see a WRX or STI I don't know which it is until I see the logo's, the Trans Am however you know immediately what it is upon glancing at it. Get some pictures of the cars and compare them side by side and decided which looks better to you.

convincing.

[tonyjnjz]

your friends awd dsm weights aprox 3300lbs ..ls1 fbody runs about 3400.......STOCK were at around 340-350 flywheel hp..that dsm is at 210 stock....hum...which one would u want to start modding??? ...for 150 a tire ( drag rads) your traction probs are solved..and from a roll forget about it........youll eat awd cars up as they lose 22 percent power to the rear wheels compared to 15 at the most for a rwd 6 speed car

[Roastem]

Ya but it's not like I'm doing a road race in these cars heh, I know it's a bit immature but I've been known to hang out in parking lots with other car guys and pick up some quick races with whoever wants to 'run em'. And as far as the 'dig'...even with Drags I hear the FBody rearends are hella weak. =(

Well, a head/cam package is gonna make short work of your stock rear end, and if you buy an auto its gonna make short work of your stock tranny too.

You mention roll power. Dude, I have always been able to just roll the throttle in first and smoke 'em off. When I got the head/cam package, I could roll in second and set 'em on fire up to about 70 mph. Dancing on the rev limiter. Mind you, these are top of the line Toyo Proxes 295/35/18's, not 245/45/16's, which came on my Z. If I had those stock tires and rims, I could prolly boil 'em off past 100 mph, well into third gear. Try THAT in an AWD car.

[ndt/oos]

problem is having success finding a ls1 that hasnt been torn up street racing

[Roastem]

Well, I bought mine with a HARD 88K on it for cheap. I put a HARDER 10K on it. She still runs like a champ. Engine, tranny problems? NONE.

Rear end problems? Well, there is always a catch.

Hell, I burned a whole tank of gas out of it the FIRST day doing doughnuts, burnouts, and racing anybody who cared too. Talk about driving like you stole it.

[djvaly]

If I were to get a rice car, I'd get a twin turbo Supra and put a big ass single turbo on it to go 800rwhp... other than that RX7 are pretty cool too...
any other rice cars, it is a waste of time and money even is it's fully bolted on stage III, as you'll get killed by any moderate modded LSx. so LS1 with motor swap stroker 402 or 408 is ideal. but that will cost 12-15k in motor and labor to get 500rwhp with supported mods. my 2 cents.

[Roastem]

If I were to get a rice car, I'd get a twin turbo Supra and put a big ass single turbo on it to go 800rwhp... other than that RX7 are pretty cool too...
any other rice cars, it is a waste of time and money even is it's fully bolted on stage III, as you'll get killed by any moderate modded LSx. so LS1 with motor swap stroker 402 or 408 is ideal. but that will cost 12-15k in motor and labor to get 500rwhp with supported mods. my 2 cents.

+1

Supras are sick as hell modded, and STILL expensive, even used and abused. One big turbo and you are looking at serious HP.

At Carolina Auto Masters Jeff Creech lists cars on a spreadsheet with MORE than 400 rwhp only. Who is at the top you wonder? A goddam Supra with alky/race gas pushing like 900 rwhp. It is Jeffs shop and he is like fourth or fifth on the list. In the top 20 there are like 5 Supras!

At a damn F-bod/Corvette performance shop for Chrissake's.

[djvaly]

true that, credit is due where it is due. Supras get my ricey respect... ;)

[secondgearscratch]

If anything one thinks its alittle silly for a 5 year old ss with low miles to be between 17 and 20k then a supra is downright retarted. Low miles on f bodys is (usually) 20k 30k 45k. and for 20 grand thats pure unmolested (hopefully) muscle. a supra turbo, say a 94 that has about 95k on the clock will easily go for 26 grand and thats moderately priced. plus the damn parts are like a billion yen and about 20 billion yen later you can beat a hayabusa.
I agree that they are cool and with a big single turbo set up they can put down 800+ hp but last time i checked a single turbo set up on an F body would put down 800+ too. ls1 performance can be expensive but i for one dont have 4000 bucks to throw on a set of headers on my supra.
:Patriot: LS1

[Roastem]

Man, I was looking at getting a used 2000 M5 till I saw how much the aftermarket parts were. I saw 1800 dollars for the headers. And I thought that wasn't too awful bad considering the car, then I noticed that was for one header! :faint:

For that kind of money that bitch better be gold plated!

[tonyjnjz]

roasted my coworkers 03 m5 last summer :D .......i always loved the 01-06 m3's ..theve come down in price a LOT..hot ass car.....to much money/performance value though......theere in c5z06 price range....hum which would i rather have? lol

[djvaly]

LSx is awesome with single turbo ;) leaves the Enzos in the dust...

[EE1983]

Man, I was looking at getting a used 2000 M5 till I saw how much the aftermarket parts were. I saw 1800 dollars for the headers. And I thought that wasn't too awful bad considering the car, then I noticed that was for one header! :faint:

For that kind of money that bitch better be gold plated!

I saw a pair of headers for a Ferrari that were $14,500!!!!!! At least they were titanium!

[tonyjnjz]

wow tubi's?

[EE1983]

wow tubi's?

They might have been but it was a long time ago. Either way, I guess if you can afford a Ferrari, you can afford 14,000 dollar headers too haha

[Wesman]

Well thanks for all the imput. I guess that answered most of my questions. Heh "think ls1's are no dif than 305 camaros from the 80", I think I've just been insulted?:blowme: It's ok tho, my Z28 doesn't run half the time and I have to use my wife's Galant:dodge:

Didn't mean to insult you, that wasn't my intention. I honestly didn't realize you had an 85 Z28, I must have skipped over that, sorry. But the truth is that American Muscle has come a long way since then, so an LT1 or LS1 is a much faster car than a 305 equipped 3rd Gen. So if your friends are basing their view of V8's off that, then they have a lot to learn.

Anyways my final question is whether or not the AWD makes any difference at all vs a RWD?

AWD is pointless in a sports car, IMO. All it does it sap up power, decrease fuel economy, add weight, and adds more parts to break. Sure you can launch the car hard and knock anywhere from a half to a full second off your 1/4 mile and 0-60 times, but whats the point?? All it does is make the car look faster than it really is. You tell people you run an 11.9, that sounds fast. You take them for a ride, and they say damn it doesn't feel any faster than my friends car that runs high 12's. Thats because it isn't, you just get off the line quicker which lowers your ET. They also get slaughtered from a roll very easily. Not to mention all those hard launches take their toll on the transmission, transfer case, CV joints, and especially the clutch. Thats just seems totally retarded to me, to sigificantly wear out or break your car in order to run your best times. AWD also doesn't help handling, unless you're a moron (not implying that you are) and you enjoy racing in foul weather, which is obviously just plain dumb, or you just plain can't drive worth a shit. Real race cars are RWD, and thats the way it should be.

[EE1983]

AWD is pointless in a sports car, IMO. All it does it sap up power, decrease fuel economy, add weight, and adds more parts to break. Sure you can launch the car hard and knock anywhere from a half to a full second off your 1/4 mile and 0-60 times, but whats the point?? All it does is make the car look faster than it really is. You tell people you run an 11.9, that sounds fast. You take them for a ride, and they say damn it doesn't feel any faster than my friends car that runs high 12's. Thats because it isn't, you just get off the line quicker which lowers your ET. They also get slaughtered from a roll very easily.


What about if it goes 11.9@118 with a light launch?

[Wesman]

What about if it goes 11.9@118 with a light launch?

A light launch. Sure.

Like a 5K Clutch drop "light launch"?? Yea, thats more like it.

[EE1983]

A light launch. Sure.

Like a 5K Clutch drop "light launch"?? Yea, thats more like it.


No one drops a clutch for an AWD launch. Thats how you break stuff. IF you know how to launch, you rev up to around 4000rpm and quickly slip it, kind of like how I did. Thats coming from someone who got 52k out of their stock clutch with over 150-200 launches.

[Roastem]

I saw a pair of headers for a Ferrari that were $14,500!!!!!! At least they were titanium!

:faint::faint::faint::faint:

Damn, I don't have that much tied up in my fully modded Z, including the car!

[tonyjnjz]

awd cars dont handle any better????? wtf???? how come the car mags ( motertrend, car and driver) compliment sti's/evo's for there exceptional handling and its due in part to the awd??????? they compared the handling of and evo to a 360 ferrari in one article ......u think evos/stis and there high center of gravity run 70 plus thru the cones and pull .90 plus G's on the pad due to ONLY there suspension?????? are u giving mitsubishi THAT much credit wes that they set up as suspension that well on such a tall car????? lol i think a lot of it has to do with the awd myself.

[Wesman]

awd cars dont handle any better????? wtf???? how come the car mags ( motertrend, car and driver) compliment sti's/evo's for there exceptional handling and its due in part to the awd??????? they compared the handling of and evo to a 360 ferrari in one article ......u think evos/stis and there high center of gravity run 70 plus thru the cones and pull .90 plus G's on the pad due to ONLY there suspension?????? are u giving mitsubishi THAT much credit wes that they set up as suspension that well on such a tall car????? lol i think a lot of it has to do with the awd myself.

Evos and STI's don't actually handle any better than any other car of similar performance, AWD or not. The advantage that those cars have is that they are easy to drive fast. They are very predictable, and and can make even the most novice driver look like a pro. They have relatively neutral handling, and you never have to worry about throttle indiced oversteer or understeer. You just point and shoot.

So the reality is that they AWD doesn't make them handle better, it just makes they much easier to drive, which gives the impression of better handling.

[tonyjnjz]

so the drivers of motertrend and car n driver are NOVICE drivers????????? hahahah i dont think so

[Wesman]

No one drops a clutch for an AWD launch. Thats how you break stuff. IF you know how to launch, you rev up to around 4000rpm and quickly slip it, kind of like how I did. Thats coming from someone who got 52k out of their stock clutch with over 150-200 launches.

Right.

Slipping the clutch at 4,000RPM, with no wheelspin due to AWD, doesn't burn the clutch up at all. You are in your own little riceboy world there my friend.

[Wesman]

so the drivers of motertrend and car n driver are NOVICE drivers????????? hahahah i dont think so

Did I say they were. No, I didn't.

I said it can make a Novice driver look like a pro.

So for a Pro driver its an extremely easy car to drive.

[tonyjnjz]

Right.

Slipping the clutch at 4,000RPM, with no wheelspin due to AWD, doesn't burn the clutch up at all. You are in your own little riceboy world there my friend.

uh oh here comes the name calling.....he has stated before that his tires DO slip on launch ..all 4 of them...just for a sec....and u went around my rebuttle where u stated evos/stis only FEEEL like they handle better because a NOVICE can push them harder......i wasnt talking about novices...i was talking about guys that test cars for a living stating how they handled EXTREMELY well and it was partly due to the AWD and that your WRONG bud

[EE1983]

So the reality is that they AWD doesn't make them handle better, it just makes they much easier to drive, which gives the impression of better handling.

Thats probably the dumbest thing Ive heard you say. Youre right, theyre easier to drive so they can pull 73mph in the slalom and more than .90Gs on a skidpad. :eat:

Why do you think FWD handles like crap LOL comeon.

[EE1983]

Right.

Slipping the clutch at 4,000RPM, with no wheelspin due to AWD, doesn't burn the clutch up at all. You are in your own little riceboy world there my friend.


There is wheelspin and no you dont burn the clutch because you do it QUICKLY. You dont sit there and burn it up. Only an idiot would do that. My stock friggen clutch lasted 52k miles doing that with over 100 ft/lb more of torque. You are wrong, just stop talking.

[djvaly]

FWD can't drift either. and ain't track cars...

[Wesman]

uh oh here comes the name calling.....he has stated before that his tires DO slip on launch ..all 4 of them...just for a sec....and u went around my rebuttle where u stated evos/stis only FEEEL like they handle better because a NOVICE can push them harder......i wasnt talking about novices...i was talking about guys that test cars for a living stating how they handled EXTREMELY well and it was partly due to the AWD and that your WRONG bud

I didn't call anyone any names. Learn to read.

So his tires chirp on the launch. That isn't taking any stress off of the clutch, which has to absord a 4,000RPM difference between the engine and the wheels.

Why don't you prove that AWD makes the car handle better. Give it your best shot. Its not going to happen, because it simply isn't true. The road testers say the cars handle well because they are very predictable and easy to toss around. Yet they don't actually handle better than any other car that pulls .90g's on the skidpad or goes through the slalom at 68MPH.

[secondgearscratch]

Im not trying to get into something that is over my head but i can vouche for awd. i took a hard left turn at 61 mph and there was hardly any body roll. swear to god. those little fuckers handle. awd makes a difference. i agree to an extent that it can make novice drivers feel like pros but that is just a testament to awd. the reation time is insane. they pull well on the skidpad. and ee is totally right about dumping the clutch. it's impossible. you will bog BADLY. you have to slip it, just like launching a certain v8 monster. but yes awd puts a ton of strain on the drive train bc people do rev them to the sky and dump em. they are novice. ever heard of a good transfer case? neither have i

[EE1983]

Why don't you prove that AWD makes the car handle better. Give it your best shot. Its not going to happen, because it simply isn't true. The road testers say the cars handle well because they are very predictable and easy to toss around. Yet they don't actually handle better than any other car that pulls .90g's on the skidpad or goes through the slalom at 68MPH.


You are whacked.

[Wesman]

You are whacked.

No, you are just a blinded fanboy.

Prove how AWD really helps handling.

[tonyjnjz]

u wont let him prove anything.... u wont race him remember?

[Wesman]

There is wheelspin and no you dont burn the clutch because you do it QUICKLY. You dont sit there and burn it up. Only an idiot would do that. My stock friggen clutch lasted 52k miles doing that with over 100 ft/lb more of torque. You are wrong, just stop talking.

No, you are just blind to reality.

Your stock clutch lasted 52K. You want a cookie or something?? I mean seriously, who cares?? Its not about how many miles you can go before its destroyed, the point is that every time you launch an AWD car hard you're talking considerable life off of the clutch, because it has to absorb the difference of 4K RPM (engine) and 0 RPM (wheels).

[Wesman]

u wont let him prove anything.... u wont race him remember?

You like starting trouble, don't you??

Find something better to do.

[tonyjnjz]

no yoru ignorant and love talkin shit but u wont back it up and its available to u

[djvaly]

:drama: come on peeps, let's keep it technical and not personal based...

[EE1983]

No, you are just a blinded fanboy.

Prove how AWD really helps handling.


Why do I have to prove something? Youre the one making these ridiculous claims that AWD doesnt improve handling. The EVO does have a stiff chassis but the weight distribution isnt anything to call home about. The AWD is what makes it great in handling. Its also what makes it predictable and easy to drive. Can you link me to some FWD cars that pull 72mph in the slalom or .90gs on the skidpad in stock form?

[tonyjnjz]

OR rwd for that matter for 30k NEW

[Wesman]

Why do I have to prove something? Youre the one making these ridiculous claims that AWD doesnt improve handling. The EVO does have a stiff chassis but the weight distribution isnt anything to call home about. The AWD is what makes it great in handling. Its also what makes it predictable and easy to drive. Can you link me to some FWD cars that pull 72mph in the slalom or .90gs on the skidpad in stock form?

Whats all this about FWD?? Who cares about FWD?? Everyone knows it sucks, all the weight is at the front of the car. The rear just follows whatever the front does.

And since when do Evos pull 72MPH in the slalom?? Best I've ever heard of was 68MPH.

You're obviously missing my point. An AWD car doesn't handle any better than any other car that pulls the same skidpad/slalom numbers. Whats so hard to understand about that?? Its common sense, really.

[tonyjnjz]

like i said...find a car that handles better ( better numbers ) for 30k wes...i dont care which wheels drive the car...and find one with such a high center of gravity....the awd has a HUGE factor on the handling..give it up

[EE1983]

Whats all this about FWD?? Who cares about FWD?? Everyone knows it sucks, all the weight is at the front of the car. The rear just follows whatever the front does.

And since when do Evos pull 72MPH in the slalom?? Best I've ever heard of was 68MPH.

You're obviously missing my point. An AWD car doesn't handle any better than any other car that pulls the same skidpad/slalom numbers. Whats so hard to understand about that?? Its common sense, really.

Find me where it did 68mph. I just lookd it up and almost every single tester Ive seen had it AT LEAST 70mph, up to 73mph.

[Wesman]

Find me where it did 68mph. I just lookd it up and almost every single tester Ive seen had it AT LEAST 70mph, up to 73mph.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/9043/bad-boy-sedans-page4.html

68.3 MPH.

[Wesman]

like i said...find a car that handles better ( better numbers ) for 30k wes...i dont care which wheels drive the car...and find one with such a high center of gravity....the awd has a HUGE factor on the handling..give it up

Right.

When you're at the track, and you back off the throttle and plow into a corner at 100+MPH on the brakes, all 4 tires screaming as they fight to keep the car on the track, AWD really helps.

You need to get out more.

[djvaly]

evo > sti

[tonyjnjz]

how about the complete oposite wes? all 4 tires screaming braking into a corner ..let off the brakes on the throttle all 4 tires grabbing for asphalt....yeah i bet that dosnt help handling what so ever....who needs to get out more?

[Wesman]

how about the complete oposite wes? all 4 tires screaming braking into a corner ..let off the brakes on the throttle all 4 tires grabbing for asphalt....yeah i bet that dosnt help handling what so ever....who needs to get out more?

Once again, you don't have a clue. How many real race cars use AWD?? Nascar?? No. F1?? No. Le Mans?? No. NHRA Drag Cars?? No. And do they have problems with traction exiting corners or in the staights?? No, they don't. Why?? Because they aren't morons, and they use the appropriately sized tires and compounds. You don't see C5-R Corvettes coming out of turns sideways with the tires smoking as they are going around the track. AWD isn't needed, all it does is sap up power, and add complexity and cost without any real benefits on a true race car. A properly set up RWD car with the appropriate tires is perfect for racing.

[tonyjnjz]

sigh....AGREEED but were not talking about app set up RACE CARS with slicks are we??? were talking about much less powerful street cars with radial tires......your not talk about the same thing....as usual your blabbling about somthing completely diff....and those RACE cars need to run the best times possible therefore they cant afford to lose the power they would thru the drivetrain from AWD ..there very limited on there specs so there already searching for the power power possible.....why dont we just set somthin up so u can race EE around a track and see what happens? eh :D

[Wesman]

sigh....AGREEED but were not talking about app set up RACE CARS with slicks are we??? were talking about much less powerful street cars with radial tires......your not talk about the same thing....as usual your blabbling about somthing completely diff....and those RACE cars need to run the best times possible therefore they cant afford to lose the power they would thru the drivetrain from AWD ..there very limited on there specs so there already searching for the power power possible.....why dont we just set somthin up so u can race EE around a track and see what happens? eh :D

Why don't we just drop this retarded conversation since you obviously can't just admit that you don't know what the hell you are talking about??

Sounds like a damn good idea to me.

[djvaly]

4WD is used to describe vehicles meant primarily for heavy off-road use...
mostly SUV and some sedans.

[JHayesLS1]

Evo and STI are derived from rally cars correct? I guess tuners finally found out they can make fast street cars out of them.

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

Drive both, see what you like. I wouldnt buy a car because my friends say its cool. Also, unless its an STi or EVO, I wouldnt waste time with GSXs, WRXs and stuff like that. They will break and are expensive to mod. Id rather have an LS1 over them anyday.

Also, what type of response did you think you were going to get from an LS1 sight asking about getting a 4cylinder or the LS1? LOL


Well I posted it in here because I'm a diehard chevy guy...I hate Mustangs but would reserve a speacial place in hell for Ricers. I'd love to be 'talked into' getting an LS1, and it wouldn't take much but I need to see how exactly they stack up to other choices out there. Just because I belittle all those Civics with fart cans on the back doesn't mean that imports dont have fast cars (like the Supra as mentioned).

The bank basically said I could get whatever car I want up to 20k, so I have alot of choices to make. I 'THINK' I have it narrowed down to a 2001 WS6 or 1997 VR-4....that will change over the next couple days I'm sure as I go shopping.

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

problem is having success finding a ls1 that hasnt been torn up street racing

Ha, I would think finding a Rice Burner with AWD and a Turbo that hasn't been abused would be 100x harder....they watch "The Fast and The Furious" too much.

[tonyjnjz]

ws6..easy choice..ive heard they have a lot of probs with vr4s and there boats ( very heavy)

[EE1983]

Well I posted it in here because I'm a diehard chevy guy...I hate Mustangs but would reserve a speacial place in hell for Ricers. I'd love to be 'talked into' getting an LS1, and it wouldn't take much but I need to see how exactly they stack up to other choices out there. Just because I belittle all those Civics with fart cans on the back doesn't mean that imports dont have fast cars (like the Supra as mentioned).

The bank basically said I could get whatever car I want up to 20k, so I have alot of choices to make. I 'THINK' I have it narrowed down to a 2001 WS6 or 1997 VR-4....that will change over the next couple days I'm sure as I go shopping.


If I were you I definitely would NOT get the VR-4. They are extremely heavy, unreliable and HARD to work on. The WS6 is easy to work on and can be made faster for cheaper with more reliability. The only twin turbo 6 cars I would reccomend is the Supra or a Skyline which you cant get.

[JHayesLS1]

VR-4 is like the RX-7, something is GUARANTEED to not work.

[djvaly]

VR4 is a heavy pig

[Lakewood]

Never buy an import, they all cost atleast 10X more money to mod than a domestic. For example it would cost about $80,000 to make a supra as fast as a camaro with $8000 into it. Try hard to find an LS1 fbody, if you cant find anything try hard to find an LT1 fbody, if you cant find any LT1's, buy a mustang.

[tonyjnjz]

LMAO look at lakewoods warning level....never seen an 11.....congrats

[djvaly]

put $8k single turbo on a supra and it would be 700-800rwhp on race gas.
$80k?... that's ridiculous.

[hutch1999]

Never buy an import, they all cost atleast 10X more money to mod than a domestic. For example it would cost about $80,000 to make a supra as fast as a camaro with $8000 into it. Try hard to find an LS1 fbody, if you cant find anything try hard to find an LT1 fbody, if you cant find any LT1's, buy a mustang.

LOL ........ man...... ok whatever you say

[AKIRA]

LMAO look at lakewoods warning level....never seen an 11.....congrats

:lol:

[Wesman]

Well I posted it in here because I'm a diehard chevy guy...I hate Mustangs but would reserve a speacial place in hell for Ricers. I'd love to be 'talked into' getting an LS1, and it wouldn't take much but I need to see how exactly they stack up to other choices out there. Just because I belittle all those Civics with fart cans on the back doesn't mean that imports dont have fast cars (like the Supra as mentioned).

The bank basically said I could get whatever car I want up to 20k, so I have alot of choices to make. I 'THINK' I have it narrowed down to a 2001 WS6 or 1997 VR-4....that will change over the next couple days I'm sure as I go shopping.

Do yourself a huge favor and don't buy the VR-4. Those things are complete trash. If you buy it, you'll be on here next week making threads like "how to change bad turbos" and "bad clunk in AWD what to do" and "help engines drinking antifreeze". They are nothign but money pits, and they aren't even fast. Plus they weigh a ton and sound like crap. They drink fuel like water and drink coolant like fuel. A good idea would be to steer far, far away from anything made by Mitsubitchi.

[djvaly]

VR4 = less power since ws6 = 350 at engine, the VR4 is 200lbs more that Ws6

[Lakewood]

VR-4 also is not even barley faster than the LS1 yet it has turbos

[Mr. Luos]

VR-4 also is not even barley faster than the LS1 yet it has turbos
So??

Why does it matter how it makes the power as long as it does?

[EE1983]

VR-4 also is not even barley faster than the LS1 yet it has turbos

Alerts: 2
Warnings: 5
Warning Level: 11
Warning Bans: 1

How do you do that :woo:

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

I've had all day at work to think about this, and I've decided that I dont want a Japmobile no matter how 'fast' it is or can be. It's just not me. However in my searching for an LS1 car for under 20k, I notice that a 99 Vette falls into that catagory :naughty: And the insurance for the 2001 WS6 is almost identical to a 99 Vette (statefarm). Only problem is that I wanna 'mod' my car and make it my own. I never see vette guys getting very hands on with their car. Althought I loved the HPTV episode where they put a StS Turbo kit on that C5. That was awsome heh.

[secondgearscratch]

and make power they do.... i know a guy who had one. within the first two weeks he blew a turbo and his transfer case went out. and i know this is hard to believe but he went through 3...3 driveshafts in 3 months. he found out that one of the heads and the ic piping was held together by super glue and he also found out how incredibly retarted it is to try to get a transfer case for one of those. make sure you can speak ricer. he did however (for a day or two) put down around 375 at all wheels which makes for alittle fun. but still they will drain your wallet in general repair

[EE1983]

I think what everyone is getting at here is DONT BUY IT. That is coming from an import owner. I would not buy one of those, they can be a SERIOUS headache. Some people have good luck with them and love them, but buying a used old one just is not a good idea.

[Lostandinneedofhelp]

I think what everyone is getting at here is DONT BUY IT. That is coming from an import owner. I would not buy one of those, they can be a SERIOUS headache. Some people have good luck with them and love them, but buying a used old one just is not a good idea.

Well thanks for the imput I really needed it, if the EVO guy says dont get one then it must be a bad idea. Now, off shopping I go!

[Lakewood]

So??

Why does it matter how it makes the power as long as it does?
put twin turbos on a LS1 and see what happens, YEA THATS WHAT I THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[EVO 9]

your a retard

[Roastem]

I've had all day at work to think about this, and I've decided that I dont want a Japmobile no matter how 'fast' it is or can be. It's just not me. However in my searching for an LS1 car for under 20k, I notice that a 99 Vette falls into that catagory :naughty: And the insurance for the 2001 WS6 is almost identical to a 99 Vette (statefarm). Only problem is that I wanna 'mod' my car and make it my own. I never see vette guys getting very hands on with their car. Althought I loved the HPTV episode where they put a StS Turbo kit on that C5. That was awsome heh.

LMAO, what happened to this thread while I was gone?

Get the 99 Vette man, get an FRC (Fixed Roof Coupe), it was the predecessor to the 01 Z06. For MUCH cheaper, plus you can spend the extra cash in mods and VOILA, you have a FAST, NICE, chic magnet.

The vette getsum WET! :drool:

[Roastem]

put twin turbos on a LS1 and see what happens, YEA THATS WHAT I THOUGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:haha:

Lakewood, man you say some crazy sh*t, but I like it!

We are gonna give you a hard time, but you make this forum much more entertaining.

[djvaly]

:woo:

[Cloud9]

Ok first your asking a bunch of people who ALREADY HATE and small engines/ turbos/ imports ect ect ect. what car to buy???? what did you think they were going to say "buy the honda" lol. But what do you plan on doing with this car and then decied what you want for your self. I love VR4s but they do break all the time, i do think a sports car should have only 2 doors but the EVO and STI are some nice cars for the money and will smoke almost anything with little money. I just dont see why over half of the F-body crowd is so quick to hate. personaly I dont like anything FWD even though i do like AWD. Also one last thing...... just because something has a turbo DOESNT make it fast so stop saying "it has turbo and cant even beat a LS1" thats like me saying " i just beat a V8 with my NA 4 banger, V8's are slow" it makes no sense

[Wesman]

your a retard

You're a fine one to be talking Mr Evo ricer.

Its "You're a retard", not "your a retard", way to own yourself while trying to call someone else stupid :dot:

[Wesman]

Ok first your asking a bunch of people who ALREADY HATE and small engines/ turbos/ imports ect ect ect. what car to buy???? what did you think they were going to say "buy the honda" lol. But what do you plan on doing with this car and then decied what you want for your self. I love VR4s but they do break all the time, i do think a sports car should have only 2 doors but the EVO and STI are some nice cars for the money and will smoke almost anything with little money. I just dont see why over half of the F-body crowd is so quick to hate. personaly I dont like anything FWD even though i do like AWD. Also one last thing...... just because something has a turbo DOESNT make it fast so stop saying "it has turbo and cant even beat a LS1" thats like me saying " i just beat a V8 with my NA 4 banger, V8's are slow" it makes no sense


Dude...What don't you understand about the definition of "rice"??

Thats what the Evo and STI are. They are 4 door economy/family sedans with ugly ass styling, ridiculous wings, gutless 4 cylinder engines, and fart can exhausts. I HATE those kinds of cars, and most guys on here don't like them either.

You can make an F-Body just as fast, or faster with the same amount, or less money, and it will actually look nice and not sound like shit or make people laugh. Its not even worth arguing about, those cars are crap. "Easy to make fast" isn't everything when the car is a piece of shit to begin with, looks like shit, and breaks all the time.

[Roastem]

Dude...What don't you understand about the definition of "rice"??

Thats what the Evo and STI are. They are 4 door economy/family sedans with ugly ass styling, ridiculous wings, gutless 4 cylinder engines, and fart can exhausts. I HATE those kinds of cars, and most guys on here don't like them either.

You can make an F-Body just as fast, or faster with the same amount, or less money, and it will actually look nice and not sound like shit or make people laugh. Its not even worth arguing about, those cars are crap. "Easy to make fast" isn't everything when the car is a piece of shit to begin with, looks like shit, and breaks all the time.

Harsh

Put a bowl full of RICE Krispies in front of Wesman and you would prolly get a ass full of double aught buckshot. :rl:

[EE1983]

Dude...What don't you understand about the definition of "rice"??

Thats what the Evo and STI are. They are 4 door economy/family sedans with ugly ass styling, ridiculous wings, gutless 4 cylinder engines, and fart can exhausts. I HATE those kinds of cars, and most guys on here don't like them either.

You can make an F-Body just as fast, or faster with the same amount, or less money, and it will actually look nice and not sound like shit or make people laugh. Its not even worth arguing about, those cars are crap. "Easy to make fast" isn't everything when the car is a piece of shit to begin with, looks like shit, and breaks all the time.

Hate Hate Hate

[JHayesLS1]

WS6's will get more attention from the ladies...
And thats all that matters.