New cam

[Snake Eater]

Hi, in about month or so I plan on purchasing this cam http://texas-speed.com/item_detail.asp?ProductID=1272. I have no idea what the lift does and what lsa means.. would this cam be to much for a daily driver? any info regarding would help a lot. thanks! :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

[Redphoenix1998]

That's gonna be a choppy cam and for streetability it'll be alright. I'm running a 230/224 on a 110 and it's choppy as hell!

[nhraformula]

its a bit much for a daily driver

[BIG D's SS]

My buddy has a cam about the same numbers and it has a bad ass lope and pulls hard. Good driveabilty.

[Katech]

Hi, in about month or so I plan on purchasing this cam . I have no idea what the lift does and what lsa means.. would this cam be to much for a daily driver? any info regarding would help a lot. thanks! :hmm: :hmm: :hmm:

Lift is basically the distance the cam opens the valve. LSA is Lobe Separation Angle; the distance (in degrees) between the intake lobe and the exhaust lobe. Our torquer cam is an excellent street cam. We installed it in a stock CTS-V and it made +40lb/ft of torque and +14hp on the chassis dyno.

[Snake Eater]

That's gonna be a choppy cam and for streetability it'll be alright. I'm running a 230/224 on a 110 and it's choppy as hell!


Okay, what do you mean by choppy?

[Tonys99RamAir]

My cam is a .595/.601 with a 232/236 duration and a 114 lsa. Great for street driving, have no problems with drive-ability at all and I still have the stock stall converter. With the cam and tune I picked up 56 hp and 18 ft/lbs of torque.--Tony

[eddierox]

Okay, what do you mean by choppy?

Much like the idle of a hyperventilating Pro Stock or even top fueler.

Anything under 114 LSA (113,112,110) will require an edit of your computer.
This is edit is critical and you will blow a motor very quicky if not professionally done.

If you do not know what you are doing, do not even attempt this swap.
There is much much more to this than just a cam swap like the good 'ol days.

The safest way to go is a Z06 cam.
It will give you up to 50 more HP safely and much much better driveability as if your car came came from the factory this way .. just like a Z06.

Most of the advice you're going to get here are from hot rod heads who started out exactly like this cam swap .. then go on to spend thousands & thousands of dollars .. ending up turning their daily driver into a Friday night special only waiting to break something expensive ... and this is what this cam will do to your vehicle .. that is after you install the necessary springs, lifters, retainers, heads, modded Throttle Body & MAF, an LS6 manifold, custom exhaust, trans, body & chassis and especially differential reinforcement .... am I forgetting anything?

I like see'g these modded vehicles for sale for ridiculously high prices disguised as their "labor of love" and it "pains them" to sell it ..

Total BS .. the car became a nightmare ..

[Snake Eater]

all right, well i was planning on purchasing cam+any other parts needed from TSP. As well as getting one of their dyno tunes done professionally. Thanks.

[Redphoenix1998]

My car isn't that fun to drive on the street. Yeah it sounds badass, I've heard people tell me they thought I was an old 60's chevelle till they saw the car. But it is a pain in the ass to drive. The cam makes great power but starting it when it's cold it takes a bit of cranking. The idle on startup is a little crazy till she warms up.

[mcamp001]

Much like the idle of a hyperventilating Pro Stock or even top fueler.

Anything under 114 LSA (113,112,110) will require an edit of your computer.
This is edit is critical and you will blow a motor very quicky if not professionally done.

If you do not know what you are doing, do not even attempt this swap.
There is much much more to this than just a cam swap like the good 'ol days.

The safest way to go is a Z06 cam.
It will give you up to 50 more HP safely and much much better driveability as if your car came came from the factory this way .. just like a Z06.

Most of the advice you're going to get here are from hot rod heads who started out exactly like this cam swap .. then go on to spend thousands & thousands of dollars .. ending up turning their daily driver into a Friday night special only waiting to break something expensive ... and this is what this cam will do to your vehicle .. that is after you install the necessary springs, lifters, retainers, heads, modded Throttle Body & MAF, an LS6 manifold, custom exhaust, trans, body & chassis and especially differential reinforcement .... am I forgetting anything?

I like see'g these modded vehicles for sale for ridiculously high prices disguised as their "labor of love" and it "pains them" to sell it ..

Total BS .. the car became a nightmare ..

LOL, I post sometimes to just see what kind of funny respones I get, so eventhough I'm laughing, I agree with you. But, you are almost saying not to mod anything?

[Redphoenix1998]

I do agree with Eddierox on a lot of things. For one, I would not want to buy a car with a ton of mods because there is always a missing component ie. engine has 450 rwhp but the tranny and rearend are stock. Well, after a few passes, one is going to break. Or a big cam was installed with no supporting mods in the motor like hardened pushrods and lifters and proper valvesprings. Some guys with big cams run stock springs and wonder why they threw a valve. There are a lot of things that have to go into a cam install. Since you are planning on a big cam, do it right the first time and install dual valve springs with titanium retainers, hardened pushrods and lifters and save yourself a bigger headache

[Snake Eater]

I do agree with Eddierox on a lot of things. For one, I would not want to buy a car with a ton of mods because there is always a missing component ie. engine has 450 rwhp but the tranny and rearend are stock. Well, after a few passes, one is going to break. Or a big cam was installed with no supporting mods in the motor like hardened pushrods and lifters and proper valvesprings. Some guys with big cams run stock springs and wonder why they threw a valve. There are a lot of things that have to go into a cam install. Since you are planning on a big cam, do it right the first time and install dual valve springs with titanium retainers, hardened pushrods and lifters and save yourself a bigger headache

Well that's pretty much what I plan on doing..

[TARZAN]

I'm cnsidering the Torquer V2 cam....tell us a little about your car, and what EXACTLY you want from it....

-Will

[Snake Eater]

I'm cnsidering the Torquer V2 cam....tell us a little about your car, and what EXACTLY you want from it....

-Will

01 TA:
magnaflow exhaust
pacesetter lt's
tsp ory
tsp airlid.

I would like to go sfc's next and then cam. am i missing something?

[Redphoenix1998]

Well considering you've got the supporting mods for a cam, might as well get your suspension and chassis going. If I were you though, I would definately start looking into a 12 bolt rear end. As far as suspension, you've got it right with the SFC's. It should come in at top of your list of things to do next. Then you can work with your rear suspension to get you some traction such as LCA's and a panhard rod. But yes look at a rearend

[tbojbob]

Did the guys @ TSP recommend this cam to you? I see you're located in TX, hopefully close to TSP so you can have them tune it once it's in, they'll no doubt have the most experience in calming this stick down to where it is a subdued daily driver. Are you a stick or auto? If you have an auto trans you better plan on adding a higher stall converter along with this cam if you don't already have one. A stick car oughta have something higher than the stock 3.42's in order not to compromise the cams characteristics.

In summary, it's a good cam choice with the correct tune AND supporting hardware (gears and/or torgue converter). If you're just looking for a starting point for motor mods I'd go somewhat smaller, tamer. TSP got a couple that'll fit that scheme. Just my .02!

[Snake Eater]

Did the guys @ TSP recommend this cam to you? I see you're located in TX, hopefully close to TSP so you can have them tune it once it's in, they'll no doubt have the most experience in calming this stick down to where it is a subdued daily driver. Are you a stick or auto? If you have an auto trans you better plan on adding a higher stall converter along with this cam if you don't already have one. A stick car oughta have something higher than the stock 3.42's in order not to compromise the cams characteristics.

In summary, it's a good cam choice with the correct tune AND supporting hardware (gears and/or torgue converter). If you're just looking for a starting point for motor mods I'd go somewhat smaller, tamer. TSP got a couple that'll fit that scheme. Just my .02!

No they didn't recommend it to me, i just took a pick because i'd like a big cam... i've heard a lot of good things about this cam although it is a bit big for daily driving-- many stated they had no problems.. i drive a m6 w/ stock 3.42s..

should i go with 1.sfc's, 2.cam w/ any other necessary parts +tune, then 3.panhard rod +lca's? thanks all:)

[tbojbob]

Do you have T-tops, if you do then I'd go w/sfc's....not too expensive and definitely a noticeable difference in aggressive driving scenarios. You have probably heard this before but I'll repeat anyway.....our stock rear ends are very breakable ESPECIALLY in a M6 car. I'm at this junction also, if you are going to launch the car hard in any instance, parking lot burnouts or dragstrip visits, even going thru the gears hard you're on borrowed time as far as rear gear/axle longevity. If you can control your launches (i.e. feather or slip the clutch so as not to shock the drivetrain) then first thing I'd do on a M6 car would be put in a 4.10 ring and pinion set. You might as well get a piggy bank that will hold $2k+ and start saving for that 12 bolt or 9" rear setup. The cam can happen anytime in there but if you are dead set on a larger cam as opposed to a more streetable one then the 4.10's will make that large cam more useable. PHEW............. my hands are CRAMPING!!!!!
It all depends on how you are going to drive it, if you are going to push it hard, take it to the strip then start thinking rear end BEFORE any of the other suspension control items. If you are going to auto-x then go for the suspension stuff (and a rear end girdle) and a smaller cam. You are lucky in that you live in an area with pretty many performance shops that can do anything you need done. There ain't nottin' hear in middle-TN!

[eddierox]

LOL, I post sometimes to just see what kind of funny respones I get, so eventhough I'm laughing, I agree with you. But, you are almost saying not to mod anything?

I'm saying you need to mod just about everything once a monster cam is installed.
When I say do not attempt this if you do not know what you are doing, it means you need to look at every single thing.
To begin with and most importantly are the rest of the engine internals.
If the factory wants to install a 600 lift cam at any LSA they would certainly build the engine with say all Eagle forged components to handle the way increased HP.
But they don't.
There is no such thing as 400+ HP from the factory .. excepting of course the Z06 which has mods done at the factory such as the big LS6 oil pump to go with its LS6 block that is a much more bullitt proof block.
The rest of the z06 is also done up properly from the M6 to rearend.

Now SLP adds their components to the LS1 camaro at the factory but it all adds up to under 400 HP.
This is why you see such things on an SLP car such as Torsen or Auburn differential in addition to the big SLP exhaust & SLP suspension.
But notice how you never see an SLP car come from the factory with SLP CAI, MAF, cam & head package, SFC, LCA, Torque Arm & etc. .. they want you to buy it afterwards .. and usually you don't know this until your camaro doesn't run right or needs the extra stuff but most likely when you break something.
Now once in a great while you see an SLP car come from the factory with over 400 HP .. it is one of the those rare factory SLP with everything on it as described above .. price? about $35k now as I just saw one on ebay.
Of course it didn't even have one bid but it did have the SLP plaque on the dash and on the front left head designating it as such.
So the point here is, if the factory does this at an exorbitant price .. this is what you will be doing once you mod ..
Or you can just live with a car that stresses every single component on it everytime you punch it waiting for something to break ..

This also means driveability.
Everyone on here so far has talked about hard cold starting and actually driving a big cam camaro on the street .. it evetually becomes unpleasurable after the initial expected euphoria of the swap.

.. don't get me wrong about the cam change .. even I adore the looks and sounds of a rappityy cam .. but only at idle .. after that the camaro just wants to blow something up on itself ..

[Snake Eater]

what are the main risks i'm taking to install this cam? ex. you mentioned "blowing" something. :think:

[nhraformula]

Much like the idle of a hyperventilating Pro Stock or even top fueler.

Anything under 114 LSA (113,112,110) will require an edit of your computer.
This is edit is critical and you will blow a motor very quicky if not professionally done.

If you do not know what you are doing, do not even attempt this swap.
There is much much more to this than just a cam swap like the good 'ol days.

The safest way to go is a Z06 cam.
It will give you up to 50 more HP safely and much much better driveability as if your car came came from the factory this way .. just like a Z06.

Most of the advice you're going to get here are from hot rod heads who started out exactly like this cam swap .. then go on to spend thousands & thousands of dollars .. ending up turning their daily driver into a Friday night special only waiting to break something expensive ... and this is what this cam will do to your vehicle .. that is after you install the necessary springs, lifters, retainers, heads, modded Throttle Body & MAF, an LS6 manifold, custom exhaust, trans, body & chassis and especially differential reinforcement .... am I forgetting anything?

I like see'g these modded vehicles for sale for ridiculously high prices disguised as their "labor of love" and it "pains them" to sell it ..

Total BS .. the car became a nightmare ..

50 rwhp from an Z06 cam= bullshit.

[eddierox]

50 rwhp from an Z06 cam= bullshit.

Learn to read and comprehend Dorkus : I said "UP to 50 HP"

[eddierox]

what are the main risks i'm taking to install this cam? ex. you mentioned "blowing" something. :think:

I'l start posting links here for you to digress in getting a good command of what goes on with your anticipated swap.

http://www.compcams.com/catalog/

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/86218/

http://www.themotorbookstore.com/ls1-ls6-v8-engines.html

http://www.motorsporttech.com/fbody_engine01.asp

[mcamp001]

Well, I agree that snake man is an ass for saying "I'm buying this bigass cam, but I don't know what LSA and centerline mean" or something to that effect. The point should be to keep things in perspective. It's easy to say I want that one because the numbers are awesome, but you must account for other components of the car, and at the very least, understand how it will affect the rest of your car. Do some research, there is a ton of good info out here, all you have to do is look.

Eddirrox, I think your point is well taken, but exaggerated a bit. There are many reasons why SLP or whomever didn't produce a 400hp Camaro, but hot rodding, and modding have been around for years, and I'm sure it will continue for many more. The entire aftermarket wouldn't exist if your views were the norm.

GM or SLP didn't sell them as race cars, if you choose to race yours, expect things to break sooner or later, and if you decide to mod yours, keep it realistic and have a plan, not just jump at something because some website said it will add 1000hp.

[eddierox]

Well, I agree that snake man is an ass for saying "I'm buying this bigass cam, but I don't know what LSA and centerline mean" or something to that effect. The point should be to keep things in perspective. It's easy to say I want that one because the numbers are awesome, but you must account for other components of the car, and at the very least, understand how it will affect the rest of your car. Do some research, there is a ton of good info out here, all you have to do is look.

Kind of a shmoozy recap of what I've been saying .. but let him buy the bigass cam and try to install it himself .. thats how you find out ... and the hard way .. what is involved.

Eddirrox, I think your point is well taken, but exaggerated a bit. There are many reasons why SLP or whomever didn't produce a 400hp Camaro, but hot rodding, and modding have been around for years, and I'm sure it will continue for many more. The entire aftermarket wouldn't exist if your views were the norm.

Obviously you've never done an LS1 mod nor even know what SLP is so it looks like you need a little study .. here you go ..

http://www.slponline.com/

GM or SLP didn't sell them as race cars, if you choose to race yours, expect things to break sooner or later, and if you decide to mod yours, keep it realistic and have a plan, not just jump at something because some website said it will add 1000hp.

There you go .. Einstein here just gave you "awesome & enthralling" advice based on 85 years of autobuilding based on the laws of physics studied the last 500 years .. all in 1 sentence ..

:lmao:

[nhraformula]

Learn to read and comprehend Dorkus : I said "UP to 50 HP"

fuckin newbies talking shit.
up to 50 horsepower, i still call bullshit.
avarage gains in h.p are about 30 max.
i didnt get 50 rwhp with my 224/224 cam which is way bigger.

[nhraformula]

Obviously you've never done an LS1 mod nor even know what SLP is so it looks like you need a little study .. here you go ..

http://www.slponline.com/



lol, dont forget that slp headers add 58 rwhp either.:haha:
anybody that would even read slp bullshit is an idiot.
btw, show me where slp made production cars that made 400 h.p

[eddierox]

fuckin newbies talking shit.
up to 50 horsepower, i still call bullshit.
avarage gains in h.p are about 30 max.
i didnt get 50 rwhp with my 224/224 cam which is way bigger.

Heres' the example of a hot rod head who doesn't know what hes' doing ..

He went out and bought himself a bigass camshaft and stuck it in his motor. But he forgot ... more likely he didn't give a damn .. that the heads are still flowing stock cc's probably through a stock LS1 intake using a stock TB & MAF .. maybe he has a better free'r flowing air intake using stock delco plugs & wires and probably with stock exhaust.
Probably even forgot the edit .. on and on and on ..

In essence, he's throwing a bowling ball through a pinhole.

So what hes doing here is disguising his frustration with stupidity.

:stupid: :screwy:

[eddierox]

lol, dont forget that slp headers add 58 rwhp either.:haha:
anybody that would even read slp bullshit is an idiot.
btw, show me where slp made production cars that made 400 h.p

Hers' the basic 400 HP SLP power pac.
http://www.slponline.com/view_product.asp?P=28036

Notice the components of the package.
Not one engine internal in sight except the rockers .. which I recommned you do and forget the big cam and/or add the cam with these components for a safe and realiable 400- 500 HP.

.. or you can listen to this hot rod head geekazoid with his bigass 30 HP cam ..

:lmao: :haha:

[nhraformula]

Heres' the example of a hot rod head who doesn't know what hes' doing ..

He went out and bought himself a bigass camshaft and stuck it in his motor. But he forgot ... more likely he didn't give a damn .. that the heads are still flowing stock cc's probably through a stock LS1 intake using a stock TB & MAF .. maybe he has a better free'r flowing air intake using stock delco plugs & wires and probably with stock exhaust.
Probably even forgot the edit .. on and on and on ..

In essence, he's throwing a bowling ball through a pinhole.

So what hes doing here is disguising his frustration with stupidity.

:stupid: :screwy:
lol, ive been posting on this board since 2000.
youre favorite band mr. rox must be tool, because you are one.
a 224/224 581/581 114 lsa is far from a bigass camshaft.
as a matter of fact, the 224 is the benchmark of all cams, but im sure you already knew that.
personally i didnt install my camshaft, dual springs, ti retainers, ls6 oil pump or ls2 timing chain, speed inc. did.
oh, lets not forget the ls6 intake, pacesetters long tubes, h.p tuners edit, volant cai, stall converter they installed either.
as for stupidity, you get that award.
anybody who would call a 224 cam big doesnt have a fuckin clue of what they are talking about, keep on talking:blah:

[nhraformula]

Hers' the basic 400 HP SLP power pac.
http://www.slponline.com/view_product.asp?P=28036

Notice the components of the package.
Not one engine internal in sight except the rockers .. which I recommned you do and forget the big cam and/or add the cam with these components for a safe and realiable 400- 500 HP.

.. or you can listen to this hot rod head geekazoid with his bigass 30 HP cam ..

:lmao: :haha:
Learn to read and comprehend Dorkus : I said "UP to 50 HP"

im using youre own quote against you.




Now SLP adds their components to the LS1 camaro at the factory but it all adds up to under 400 HP.


i said show me a production slp car that made 400 h.p

[mcamp001]

lol, ive been posting on this board since 2000.
youre favorite band mr. rox must be tool, because you are one.
a 224/224 581/581 114 lsa is far from a bigass camshaft.
as a matter of fact, the 224 is the benchmark of all cams, but im sure you already knew that.
personally i didnt install my camshaft, dual springs, ti retainers, ls6 oil pump or ls2 timing chain, speed inc. did.
oh, lets not forget the ls6 intake, pacesetters long tubes, h.p tuners edit, volant cai, stall converter they installed either.
as for stupidity, you get that award.
anybody who would call a 224 cam big doesnt have a fuckin clue of what they are talking about, keep on talking

Finally, something I can agree with in this thread, lol

What cam did you install ? I am doing a 230/230/114/591 right now, and yes, I have supporting mods to handle it.

[nhraformula]

Finally, something I can agree with in this thread, lol

What cam did you install ? I am doing a 230/230/114/591 right now, and yes, I have supporting mods to handle it.
speed inc installed my comp cams 224/224 581/581 114 lsa cam.
with a tune, youll be fine.
are you a stick or A4?

[mcamp001]

M6, dyno and tune on Saturday. I should be right at 390-395rw

since when did this board re-opening turn into romper room?

[nhraformula]

M6, dyno and tune on Saturday. I should be right at 390-395rw

since when did this board re-opening turn into romper room?
with a six speed, youll be fine with that cam.

as for romper room, to many teenagers are posting here nowadays, thats why old time posters like myself rarely post here anymore.

[eddierox]

lol, ive been posting on this board since 2000.
youre favorite band mr. rox must be tool, because you are one.
a 224/224 581/581 114 lsa is far from a bigass camshaft.
as a matter of fact, the 224 is the benchmark of all cams, but im sure you already knew that.
personally i didnt install my camshaft, dual springs, ti retainers, ls6 oil pump or ls2 timing chain, speed inc. did.
oh, lets not forget the ls6 intake, pacesetters long tubes, h.p tuners edit, volant cai, stall converter they installed either.
as for stupidity, you get that award.
anybody who would call a 224 cam big doesnt have a fuckin clue of what they are talking about, keep on talking:blah:

Z06 CAM SPECS:
218/204 DURATION AT .050
.550/.550 LIFT
117.5 LOBE SEPERATION
LS6 SPRINGS ARE GOOD TO .570 LIFT

Good for up "UP TO 50 HP" with no other mods, not even an edit needed, total reliability with burnouts with near infinite top end ... over and over, no sweat.
Price: $300 on Ebay

And you see what happens when you spend thousands and thousands .. you become an instant authority and you don't even have to post time slips nor lie about your great racing epochs .. just wave your wand and have infinite HP and then get on the mic and use any slang you want ..

I am curious about one thing though ... how have you been posting here since 2000 when this forum has only been in existence 2 months ..

... well there you have it .. wave your wand and POOF .. "I've got to figure out my next comback .. "

damn that eddierox and rolls you ..

:lmao: :nana:

[mcamp001]

dude, you really don't have a freakin clue, do you? Let me guess, you're 17, or 18?

[eddierox]

dude, you really don't have a freakin clue, do you? Let me guess, you're 17, or 18?

Maybe you should change your name to ni'mCAMpoop ..

hee hee ...:lmao:

[nhraformula]

Z06 CAM SPECS:
218/204 DURATION AT .050
.550/.550 LIFT
117.5 LOBE SEPERATION
LS6 SPRINGS ARE GOOD TO .570 LIFT

Good for up "UP TO 50 HP" with no other mods, not even an edit needed, total reliability with burnouts with near infinite top end ... over and over, no sweat.
Price: $300 on Ebay



talk to sky042 or ed blown vert, they are the powers to be.
the old server lost all of its info because the owner didnt pay the server bill.
this forum, ls1.com has been around since 1998.
once again you show youre a newbie who knows nothing.

btw, ebay is a great place to get camshaft performance:lmao:
i will also be at 41 dragway this sunday morning, its in indiana.
why dont you bring youre highly modded f-body

[eddierox]

talk to sky042 or ed blown vert, they are the powers to be.
the old server lost all of its info because the owner didnt pay the server bill.
this forum, ls1.com has been around since 1998.
once again you show youre a newbie who knows nothing.

btw, ebay is a great place to get camshaft performance:lmao:

yes I've been banned several times on LS1.com by edblownvert for having to address idiots like yourself who find their higher self esteem by waving their instant HP wands on the forum thus decree'ng themselves "it" ..

I know I know .. I would rather spend thousands down at my local ripoff speedshop than buy the same thing on Ebay for much much less ..

:think:

[nhraformula]

yes I've been banned several times on LS1.com by edblownvert for having to address idiots like yourself who find their higher self esteem by waving their instant HP wands on the forum thus decree'ng themselves "it" ..

I know I know .. I would rather spend thousands down at my local ripoff speedshop than buy the same thing on Ebay for much much less ..

:think:
at least i have the money to spend.

you have still to show me the 400 h.p slp factory car

[nhraformula]

yes I've been banned several times on LS1.com by edblownvert for having to address idiots like yourself who find their higher self esteem by waving their instant HP wands on the forum thus decree'ng themselves "it" ..

:
at least i know what im talking about.



btw, you are one ugly motherfucker. man did GOD beat you with the uglystick,


http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/41dac527z53ecc81b/eddieroxus/__sr_/e84e.jpg?pf0IdRDBmnZ6SZag

[eddierox]

i will also be at 41 dragway this sunday morning, its in indiana.
why dont you bring youre highly modded f-body

Well, I got out of modded F-bodys .. "trix are for kids" ..

I'll drive my non-internal modded 450+ HP Z06 to watch an old timer in regression remind himself when lunati rollers and tunnel rams were the one true "American Grafitti" 1/4 mile at a time life I only knew that I so miss ..

on second thought ..

*YAWN* ... :tired:

[nhraformula]

Well, I got out of modded F-bodys .. "trix are for kids" ..

I'll drive my non-internal modded 450+ HP Z06 to watch an old timer in regression remind himself when lunati rollers and tunnel rams were the one true "American Grafitti" 1/4 mile at a time life I only knew that I so miss ..

on second thought ..

*YAWN* ... :tired:
bring it on.

im still waiting on this 400 h.p slp production car that you were talking about.

[BadBlueBird*]

End of thread.

Thanks for playing

[nhraformula]

bring it on.

im still waiting on this 400 h.p slp production car that you were talking about.
if you look at ebay, maybe youll find that 400 h.p slp car, hint hint