What exactly breaks in the stock rearend?

[LS1POWER]

I was wondering what part of the stock rearend breaks. If you got new strong axles eaton posi and richmond gears. would this rearend still break when the car is runnning mid 11s.

[kmaro]

from my own personal experience, the ring and pinion are the weakest link. i have broke two sets now ,gm and richmond.

[needmorepwr]

I broke the spider gears inside the carrier. Big bang and no more driving!

[02z28ls1]

I was wondering what part of the stock rearend breaks. If you got new strong axles eaton posi and richmond gears. would this rearend still break when the car is runnning mid 11s.
As I understand it from what others have been saying-the auto tranny is not as hard on the rear end-the stick shift car shocks the driveline harder.Depends on how hard you drive the car.

[needmorepwr]

Very true. The 6 speed cars are harder on the rearend if you do high rpm launches and bang through the gears like me!

[Dayak]

I have a 12 bolt and it is whining like crazy so I think it is going out I get a buzz and whine at the same time it only does it when u have it going forward I mean when in the gas if coasting u can't hear it ... is this bearings?? ring and pinion?>??

Dayak

[BIG D's SS]

Sounds like it is not set up right. It sounds like it is the backlash not set correctly. I could be wrong, but in my experience that what I would say.

[Dayak]

Hey well I would have to think thats not it cause it just started the noise I have a stroker engine and new dual friction clutch and fly wheel so thats stuff is new so unless its the drive line or something???

also Big D. what do u think would be the best moves to get this thing to get some traction>>>??

Thanks
Dayak

[Prewett]

Dayak,

had the same whinning in mine. Busted bearings were the culprit. Replaced with 3.73 gears and all is great now!

[reed98]

i've set up alot of rearends, the part that gives and causes things to break is the crush sleeve, when u get on it some times the sleeve crushes alittle and then the pinion gear gives. if u use a solid pinion spacer that can help a lot......

[Fran D]

i've set up alot of rearends, the part that gives and causes things to break is the crush sleeve, when u get on it some times the sleeve crushes alittle and then the pinion gear gives. if u use a solid pinion spacer that can help a lot......
This was actually the cause of my rear's failure (or, rather, near-failure...I got to it before ka-boom). The sleeve was pounded down by the pinion so many times (M6 car) that it had actually compressed another .010"!!! This gave the pinion such a good run at the ring gear that the left carrier bearing began to fail (loud growl at all speeds).

I should have gone with a solid spacer, but I was in too much of a hurry to get the rear back together.

[Chris 96 WS6]

9/10 times the ring gear breaks. However, main bearing caps can break, and even the case can break.

[tici]

i've set up alot of rearends, the part that gives and causes things to break is the crush sleeve, when u get on it some times the sleeve crushes alittle and then the pinion gear gives. if u use a solid pinion spacer that can help a lot......

Why is GM using a crush sleeve? There are a bunch of shims anyway in the diff that a "piece of pipe" and a couple more shims won't hurt...
Or is there an advantage using a crush sleeve?

[Fran D]

Why is GM using a crush sleeve? There are a bunch of shims anyway in the diff that a "piece of pipe" and a couple more shims won't hurt...
Or is there an advantage using a crush sleeve?
It's not so much a GM issue (I don't think they could care less) as much as it is an American Axle issue (the Tier One supplier for this rear). However, the benefits are speed of assembly, which then equals cost (a VERY important issue to GM ;)). You don't have to go through several trial setups that you'd need to with a solid spacer (to get the preload correct).

[tici]

Is it always better to have a solid spacer? Or is it only after a certain power level or driving style (races)?

To my understanding you have a basic spacer and add shims until the preload i correct... same as the carrier bearings?

[Fran D]

Is it always better to have a solid spacer? Or is it only after a certain power level or driving style (races)?

To my understanding you have a basic spacer and add shims until the preload i correct... same as the carrier bearings?
I can't see any operational detriment to running a solid spacer. It may not be needed, but I can't imagine it doing any harm. On that basis, I would conclude that it is always better or, at worst, inconsequential. If my car had originally been set up with a solid spacer, I don't think that the pinion bearing clearances would have opened up...at least, not to the extent that they did.

You are correct in your understanding of shimming and preload.

[tici]

Mh... I'm now installing a M6 instead of the crappy 4L60E and I'll have to replace the 2.73 rear end with something shorter (at least a 3.42).
I was always scared by crushing the sleeve too much and have the car on the lift during a couple of days until I get a new one. I'll probably go with a solid one.
Are they difficult to get?

[Fran D]

...Are they difficult to get?
Nope. Do a search on Ratech. It's like $15 or $20.

By the way, you may want to consider something a little stiffer than the 3.42s. I just threw 4.10s in my car and it really woke it up! It's a daily driver and it has been very well behaved with no noticeable change in fuel mileage. The original 3.42s in my car always felt a little wrong with regards to getting the car moving and being at the appropriate part of the curve for a given MPH. I'm not sure the 4.10s are optimum either, but it is certainly an improvement. Just something to consider.

[tici]

I was suggested to install 3.73.
WIth this ratio 6th gear is just a little longer than the 4th in the automatic and the 2.73 so mileage should be the same as now.
I'll have to see if I find it in the thick version because my carrier is a series 2. But I think it exists.
4.1 is really short!
Aren't they more delicate with an higher ratio?

[Fran D]

...Aren't they more delicate with an higher ratio?
Not sure what you mean by delicate. The shorter ratio results in a beefier ring and a more compact pinion. It doesn't seem that delicate from a simple observation. The pinion is only spinning 20% faster than it did before, so I can't see that being much of an issue either.

The 3.73 would be a good compromise, though. You should be able to find the thick gear. I've seen them on many of the sponsor sites. I think you will be pleased with the extra ~10%.

[tici]

OK let me first install the M6... the last few days I put the pedals and the hydraulic stuff in... what a pain! I'm 2 meters tall (something like 6'6") and the space around the pedals is soooo small already for the average people, imagine for me!
So let me first see how it feels with the 2.73

This of "delicate" is something I read on the forums. Someone was telling that the shorter gears were weaker because of "less material". ???

Right now I have the original steel driveshaft. Do you know if I should replace it with aluminum if I install a shorter diff ratio?

[Fran D]

I'm 6'1", I can feel some of your pain.

The less material would only apply to the size of the pinion head, but the gear contact patch (as far as I know) is the same, so I can't see how that weakens anything. If someone knows different, please chime in.

Some people like the steel because it is stronger (and I'd certainly agree with that) and some like the aluminum because it is lighter (and I'd certainly agree with that!...Hmmm :think: ). My car started life with the aluminum driveshaft so I really like the weight. ;) I'll probably continue to like it until it breaks. All that being said, you're fine with the steel.

Isn't it kinda late in Zurich now?

[tici]

yep.. it's almost 1AM here now and I should go sleep. We should have something like 6-9 hours difference depending on which coast you are.

Now that the M6 pedals are installed I see that my shoes are too big for them! I have an European 48, about 13 or 13-1/2 for North America. I guess you haven't much smaller feets... how do they fit? With the automatic it was just fine, but now it's a little tight!

[Fran D]

I'm an East Coaster, so there's six hours difference. I should be leaving work now!

My feet are smaller, 10 1/2, so I can only image what it will be like with those moccasins! :eek:

My biggest problem is that I'm mostly all leg, so I'm constantly banging my legs into the steering wheel. It took some getting used to for me, so I imagine it will be a little awkward for you at first. But, we all adapt with the proper motivation. :D :drivin:

[tici]

Haha! I always had to modify my cars: usually lowering the seat and moving them 4" to the back. The girlfriend is also pretty tall so I modified both seats. Of course the car is now only for 2 peoples... but no kids for now ;)

I was looking for a smaller steering wheel but they don't do it with the airbag.

Tomorrow is the big day... trash the 4L60E and put the T56 in it's place!

I'll tell you how it feels the 2.73 rear end. I guess like crap:Ohno:

[Fran D]

Good luck! I hope it all goes smoothly.

It'll be interesting to get your impressions with the 2.73s. I, personally, always felt the car was a little under-geared for being so heavy (~3600 lbs. with me in it). If you had any converter at all with the automatic, the M6 may feel a little sluggish.

Just out of curiosity, what motivated you to make the change?

(BTW - the only reason I got the Camaro instead of the Vette was to carry around my three kids. :p)

[tici]

Hahaaaa!! I got a TA because the Vette is even smaller inside and because I wanted to be able to take some luggage with me. So space seems to be a common problem ;)

There are many reasons for the swap:

because of the blower the A4 is almost toasted. It can't make the 2-3 shift at WOT any more and I had to reduce the shift RPM down to 4000 rpm or it would slip. This makes the blower worthless.

A rebuild costs here $3600 but without guarantee because the car is modded. A beefed up A4 from the USA + shipping costs about the same. Also no guarantee.
The swap costs also about the same. Also no guarantee... so at the end, why not?

Here 80% of the cars are manual and automatic are considered sleepers. I grow up with this mentality and I still haven't changed it. I drove sticks during 15 years and maybe 5 with the automatic (4L60 and 4L60E) and I never liked it. Manuals are absolutely rare here so I had to go with an automatic :(

The T56 I have shoud have 40'000 miles on it and it comes from a 99 Camaro.
The only thing I'm insicure is the slave cylinder. It should be a 99 also, but on the aluminum piece you can see a "2" surroundend by 12 fields, some with dots (3). It looks like a productions date to me. Like March 2002.
The clutch is almost new and the drill mod had been made, so I can imagine that the old owner did also upgrade the slave cylinder... or at least I hope so! Any Idea?

[Fran D]

Nope, no idea how to interpret the manufacturing codes on the slave cylinder. Maybe someone else reading this post knows?

Sounds like a fun, though. Nothing better than wrestling with a transmission under the car. :thumbup:

Be sure to post your impressions after the swap.

[tici]

OK tranny is in. Everything went well and I had no surprises.
The REAL problem is that the Spec stage 2 clutch is not disengaging enough.
I put their metal shim. I'm sure master and slave are installed correctly.
The TO bearing is new (supplied by Spec).
Flywheel, clutch and pressure plate are new.
The hydraulic system is 100% bleeded (first on the bench then on the car with a transparant hose to check for bubbles).
We bleeded 20-30 times at least.

During the first 1/2 of the pedal movement I feel a certain force but I think that only in the second 1/2 the clutch begins to disingage.
I can barely go in a couples of gears but not in reverse.
To move the car I have to turn off the engine, select a gear (1st or reverse), press the clutch and then start the engine.
The cluthc is fully ingaged after only 1" from the floor (or less).
The hydraulic is not loosing pressure: I can stay 2-3 minutes on the pedal and the pressure remains constant.

So well... wha to do?
Do I have to increase the shim thickness between tranny and slave? (I put what Spec said). What thichness?
Is it possible that the hydraulic is bad? (It doesn't leak or loose pressure).
Is it possible to increase the movement of the slave cylinder using a different (larger) master cylinder?

I know, this is a drivetrain thread... sorry but it turned to be a tranny swap discussion ;)

[nukemss]

I had the same problem with my spec stage 3 but i had 2 diffrent problems my slave was on its way out and it needed a little bigger spacer behind the slave fixed it right up

[tici]

I had the same problem with my spec stage 3 but i had 2 diffrent problems my slave was on its way out and it needed a little bigger spacer behind the slave fixed it right up

I asked Spec and they said to add 1 mm shim (0.04"). How much have you added?

Have you tried an adjustable master? Many people seems to be lucky with it.

How do you recognize if the slave is bad? Mine is not externally leaking and if I push the pedal for a while it doesn't loose pressure or change position. The fluid level in the reservoir remains constant.

I still don't know if my slave is an old or a new style. Unfortunately the part numbers are the same. I only see a mark in the aluminum with a "2" and some dots around. this is the typical way to write the production year + month on the cast. "2" for 2002 and so many dots as month (like 3 dots = March).
Do you still have your old slave handy? Could you please take a look for me if you see something similar?

I have a used tranny so I don't know how old parts are. I also trashed the old automatic so I have no idea how this car should be with a manual transmission:brick: