02 WS6 vs 72 Challenger

[02_WS6]

02 WS6 mods= BG Ram air, Slp box, Longtube headers, ORY, Slp Loudmouth. But its an auto

72 Challenger mods= Full length headers, flowmasters, true dual exhaust, shift kit, rear end (dont' know what kind) 440.


Who would win?

[Kyle C]

Challenger goes down.

[chevyvette1]

I would say you, here are some numbers from a 73 Charger, stock 0 to 60 and 1/4 mile, it's allready close to 2 seconds slower, (stock vs. stock) they just dont hook up well, to narrow of tires

1973 Dodge Charger SE 440ci 7.4 15.2

[Armor]

is the guts of the 440 stock? what about rear end gears? If he's even mildly cammed and has good compression ratio, and a decent rear end and tires, my $$$ is on the Challanger

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Why does everyone say " it's just an A4" I ran mine last tuesday, and it went 13.46... The car is BONE STOCK w/ 55k on the ticker.

Two of the cars I BEAT, were 06 GTO M6s, had them both by a couple of lengths at the 60'...

just a ?

[chevyvette1]

Why does everyone say " it's just an A4" I ran mine last tuesday, and it went 13.46... The car is BONE STOCK w/ 55k on the ticker



I didnt see anywhere that was said, mine is a auto as well, just CAI and Corsa, ran 12.9 with stock tires last Sat:yup:

[sommergibile]

Challengers and Cuda's didn't come with 440s past '71. After that the biggest engine was a 360. Those numbers that were posted sound more like a 340. I should know because I have a '72 Barracuda that has a 318(for now) and with a new intake and carb I am running better numbers than that, and 318s are considered economy engines. Also you should know the 440 six-pack was known to be just as fast as the Hemi capable of mid 13s on stock tires and mid 12s on drag radials.So even a mildly modified 440 could be trouble.

[NHRAMAN]

I think a close race....unless the 440 is modded, then u r going to lose.

[Thorazine Shuffle]

02 WS6 mods= BG Ram air, Slp box, Longtube headers, ORY, Slp Loudmouth. But its an auto

72 Challenger mods= Full length headers, flowmasters, true dual exhaust, shift kit, rear end (dont' know what kind) 440.


Who would win?

"but it's an auto"

[03regency]

i say you'll rape that challenger. I think they're Kinda slow off the line. i cant remember for sure though. i will definately say you will win though.

[AKIRA]

Yes the WS6 will win. If those are the only mods listed, its a fucking pig.

Whats with this "would" shit? Just race and find out.

[6sw00]

Why does everyone say " it's just an A4" I ran mine last tuesday, and it went 13.46... The car is BONE STOCK w/ 55k on the ticker.

Two of the cars I BEAT, were 06 GTO M6s, had them both by a couple of lengths at the 60'...

just a ?

m6 65k on it, ran 13.44 completely stock. beat 06 gto m6 and also 87 grand national with some upgrades..
you rarely see real drag cars that are manual...

[02_WS6]

Well the challenger is my dads car. A 440 was put into it. I don't know the exact gears, but when you going 30-35 mph it sounds like your in second gear.

[02_WS6]

If i got a stall, would i for sure beat him? I just want to be able to beat him to shut him up. I'm afraid to race because 1. he wants to race for slips, 2. if i lose i wont hear the end of it.

[Armor]

woulda, coulda, shoulda....:)

Not knowing anything about the car other than the mods mentioned...I'm still putting my $$$ on the Challenger...the 440 is a very nasty powerplant and the Challenger is light by 60-70's musclecar standards...if he's addressed traction issues and other things, he's gonna kill ya...I watch 440 equipped Challengers turn 12's all the time at our local drag strip with only mild modifications...he'll make you look bad

ARMOR

[sommergibile]

Saw a moderately built 440 in a Polara (heavy car about 4000#'s) run 11.50@116 on drag tires.

[02_WS6]

Man, i'm screwed. What do i have to do to beat him?

[Armor]

Man, i'm screwed. What do i have to do to beat him?

Don't race him...:giveup:

Armor

[Thorazine Shuffle]

Just race him and get it over with... If he beats you then you, do some work and try another day.

[YoMommasTA]

are you kidding? if its in true form that 440 will tear you a new ahole.I did some street racing back in the days those cars roamed the streets.The ls1 cars are quick for a stocker but lets be real here.I'll bet that 440(if its in any kind of decent condition)is gonna romp on you so hard you'll think Santa Claus just fkd you!

[02_WS6]

What do i have to do to beat it?

[YoMommasTA]

kick yer dad in the nuts and run!

[99trans]

440's gonna kick your a$$, no replacement for deplacement. simple as that. ppl thought that 427 vetts were fast, 440 dodge ploaras( 4 door big cop car) would eat them alive, and they were stock. if the 440 is even slightly modded then your really f'ed. i raced my friends at a drag stip a while back and i beat him, but he was running on 3 maybe 4 cylinders with about 60 pds of compressin, and still ran a 15.5. that should be a hint.

[Wesman]

you rarely see real drag cars that are manual...

And you rarely see real drag cars used on the street, which is where the majority of us drive ;)

[Thorazine Shuffle]

m6 65k on it, ran 13.44 completely stock. beat 06 gto m6 and also 87 grand national with some upgrades..
you rarely see real drag cars that are manual...

Aren't all prostockers manuals?

[bguns10]

I wouldn't be that scared to race him if that thing is close to stock. If it modded alot you never now then. But I would just race him and find out you can always make it faster if you lose!

[Sweet Lou]

Challengers and Cuda's didn't come with 440s past '71. After that the biggest engine was a 360.


this is both true and untrue. 1971 was indeed the last year of the big block motors available for E-body cars. but, 1972-'73 cars did not get a 360 option. only 318 and 340. in 1974 the only options were 318 and 360.

this does not mean that the Challenger in question doesnt have a 440 however. that is completely plausible.

someone up top made a comparison between the Challenger and a 73 Charger? 2 totally different cars. completely different platforms.


in my estimation, having driven a 74 Cuda 360 for many years, and owning a Trans Am currently, allbeit, not a ws6 model.... you have a chance. but tire spin at the start is where your chance is imo. if the Challenger can hook up, you have little to no chance. "there is no replacement for displacement."

[sommergibile]

I understand that the 360 was not option until 74 I was just stating that after '71 the biggest engine that came in E bodys at any point was the 360. The only reason that I mentioned that was because I thought the person before me had wrote 73 Challenger not Charger. Also I understand you can put any engine in the E bodys I'm going to be putting a heavily modified 383 in to my 72 Barracuda.

[YoMommasTA]

I wouldn't be that scared to race him if that thing is close to stock. If it modded alot you never now then. But I would just race him and find out you can always make it faster if you lose!a stock 440 is still alot of motor.In a Challenger its gonna be one nasty street car even stock.I can see none of you ever drove any old mopars,i've been in quite a few.They are serious cars trust me.If that Challenger gets any kind of traction its gonna be long gone.You realize the 440 were in the 400 hp 480 tq range???? this is gonna seriously stomp the livin sheet outta anything except a fully modded ls1.Do you know how 480 ft lbs of tq can move a car?Tell you what take your car and divide its weight by it hp and tq ,then compare it to the Challenger same way.HOLD ON TO YER LUG NUTS,ITS TIME FOR A OVERHAUL!

[sommergibile]

If you read more closely you will see that the 2 people that replied before you have driven Mopars. I have had 2 and my dad has owned at least 5 these include a 66 Coronet 383 RR, 69 Dart GT, 71 Dart Swinger with a 440, and a 72 Barracuda.

[YoMommasTA]

i know of a "stock" 67 383 magmun charger that i refuse to ride in.I like clean shorts!

[YoMommasTA]

If you read more closely you will see that the 2 people that replied before you have driven Mopars. I have had 2 and my dad has owned at least 5 these include a 66 Coronet 383 RR, 69 Dart GT, 71 Dart Swinger with a 440, and a 72 Barracuda.
and you mention this because?????

[sommergibile]

I can see none of you ever drove any old mopars,i've been in quite a few.

Thats why.

[YoMommasTA]

i'm a lesbain

[Hot Black Trans-Am]

Hot ones are fun to watch.

[jwindbigler]

Just race and let us know how it turns out

[nhraformula]

to beat him, a 3500 rpm stall, a cam in the 230 range, dynotune and sticky tires.
if you can afford heads, do them also.

ive raced alot of old muscle and ass raped them.

[02_WS6]

About how much would this all cost me?

[A~NICE~CAR~IS~A~NICE~CAR]

lets just say your piggy bank will feel raped x1000 times!

[JONESY]

If your LS-1 is stock then it would probably run low 13's- about the same as a challenger equipped with a stock 440. Remember a challenger still weighs 3500-3600 with a big block in it so its no lightweight racecar. I f its a stock 72 -440 its kind of a pig. I have a 1969 dodge superbee with a warmed over 440 with a 6-pack that runs 11.60's--But--I also owned a bone stock ws-6 Ls-1 that ran 13.70's-then we changed to nittos and ran 13.40's- then we installed a vigilante 3200 stall coverter and it ran 12.61 @107 with 3.23's and bone stock exhaust.we had a K&N and a direct flo lid but that's it.You have to really get in the motor and change some stuff for a 440 challenger to run 12.60's. So I would say If he's got a stock 440 you may be pretty well matched,and if not,you could be in trouble.But either way,do yourself a favor and at least put in a 3200 stall if not a 3500 stall.It doesn't change everyday driveability,the lockup feature still works and you will be saying to the LS-1 guys with the M6- Hey where did you guys go? The converter is good for 7-10ths in the qtr mile.My T/A ran 7.99 in the 1/8th with a best 60 ft of 1.71 on the nittos.

[nhraformula]

i totally agreed with above converter statements.
with my tci 3000rpm streetfighter, i knocked off .6 tenths in the 1/4

[nhraformula]

About how much would this all cost me?

the nittos for the rear, about 325
im going to use what speed inc charged me for next two mods,
tci stall converter, shift kit and install was about 1000
cam kit, install and dyno tune is about 1500.
so youre looking at almost $3000.
youll be easily in the 11s and it will totally be streetable.
now you can get a bigger cam but it wont be the best choice for a daily driver.

[Armor]

still...no guarantees you'll beat him....you've posed a very hypothetical question here...we have no idea what the Challenger can do in the 1/4 based on your description...all we know is that it has gears, some bolt ons...ect...the guts of the 440 are what matters in the older cars....

I'm old enough I've lived in both eras...and there is a HUGE difference between what makes those cars fast compared to what makes our new cars fast. With a few simple internal mods, you can turn a 440 into a 500+hp engine easy...

I grew up in the era where musclecars were cheap and plentiful...I had a '72 Chevelle SS with a 350...with less than $2000, (in 80's dollars mind you) I was able to make that car put well over 400HP to the rear tires, and turn high 12's at a strip 5000 feet above sea level....

The new cars are amazing from a performance standpoint for what you get stock...but don't understimate the old cars...yeah, they are heavy, not nearly as efficient...but they have some huge adavantages over our new cars as well. Easy and cheap to modify, not limited by computers, ect...so beware...these things are for real....

Armor

[nhraformula]

still...no guarantees you'll beat him....you've posed a very hypothetical question here...we have no idea what the Challenger can do in the 1/4 based on your description...all we know is that it has gears, some bolt ons...ect...the guts of the 440 are what matters in the older cars....

I'm old enough I've lived in both eras...and there is a HUGE difference between what makes those cars fast compared to what makes our new cars fast. With a few simple internal mods, you can turn a 440 into a 500+hp engine easy...

I grew up in the era where musclecars were cheap and plentiful...I had a '72 Chevelle SS with a 350...with less than $2000, (in 80's dollars mind you) I was able to make that car put well over 400HP to the rear tires, and turn high 12's at a strip 5000 feet above sea level....

The new cars are amazing from a performance standpoint for what you get stock...but don't understimate the old cars...yeah, they are heavy, not nearly as efficient...but they have some huge adavantages over our new cars as well. Easy and cheap to modify, not limited by computers, ect...so beware...these things are for real....

Armor

i also grew up in the same era as you. most of those cars you talk about were pigs by todays standards. yes those cars will run better with aftermarket bumpsticks, heads and so on, but so will the new f-bodies.
it comes down to what a person wants to spend.
one thing for sure about old muscle, its rare to see them do 11 second passes and drive the car home unlike todays cars.

[Armor]

I disagree...an 11 second F body car today is going to be every bit as unstreetable as an 11 second '60's/70's musclecar....

Armor

[nhraformula]

I disagree...an 11 second F body car today is going to be every bit as unstreetable as an 11 second '60's/70's musclecar....

Armor
if you think a LS1 is unstreetable that does 11s, you still have alot to learn about ls1 cars.
i throw slicks on and im in the 11s.
i have a mild cam and a 3000 rpm converter. i get about 300 miles to the tank and can have my air condo on without overheating.

[tonyjnjz]

stall, 150shot of juice, drag rads.....fuckem up and take the old mans pride and joy!!!!!!! how good would that feel!!! ..oh yeah and throw some 373s in the rear end if u have any money left over.

[tonyjnjz]

11 sec fbody is unstreetable???????? wtf.......www.lingenfelter.com ......check out the 427 twin turbo package....750 horse.......believe lpe got in the 9's with one of them ..eh maybe it was 8s...article was in motortrend i believe with the vette racing a jet .....kinda rediculous.....and VERY streetable.....heres a 1000 hp one for sale.....somone ask the seller if its streetable....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-Corvette-Z16-Lingenfelter-427-TT-1-000-HP-Z16-Corvette_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6168QQihZ018QQ itemZ280042748864QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[Armor]

I meant "unstreetable" as a reletive term. Sure, you can drive an 11 second F body on the street in reasonable comfort, but you can do the same with many 11 second 60's/70's musclecars. The point I was trying to make is that making any car go that fast, you sacrifice some driveability and some reliability in that vehicle, period. No matter what car you drive...more power=less street manners. Depending on the car, you'll have traction issues, you'll have noise/vibration issues, you'll have reliability issues due to some stock parts not designed to handle the higher power failure, you'll have ride comfort issues in some cases due to stall converters, heating/cooling issues...ect...

The new cars like our 4th gen F bodies have some marked improvements in many areas compared to their older counterparts. These cars are defiantly more drivealble than their older counter-parts to start with. I've owned every generation of Firebird, (I've owned a '69 firebird 455, a '73 T/A 455, 2 '78's both W72 400's, an '80 Turbo 4.9, an '87 GTA 5.7L, and currently own a '97 LT1 T/A and a '99 WS6 Formula) the performace vs. driveability has definatey increased with every generation. More sophisticated suspention, handling, more efficent engines, ect lend to a higher degree of "streetability". I'm not argueing that at all. But the 60's/70's cars have some advantages over our new ones as well. No computers to mess with, simpler, cheaper parts...it's much easier to build bigger numbers in an older car on a similar budget, without resorting to the whole mess of reprogramming computers, relying on forced induction, or nitrous....all you need is a decent bump stick, a good compression ratio piston, decent intake and exhaust, you are in business with an old engine...

The issue comes when you change the stock makeup of a vehicle. I know several people that have 11 second "old" muscle cars they drive on the street on a regular basis....the ones that are the most comfortable are the ones that have done it smartly, same with the newer F bodies...bottom line, it takes "x" amount of HP and torque to make a car that weighs "x" lbs to turn a 12, 11, whatever 1/4 mile...the new cars have some advantages, but so do the old ones....and in both cases, you have a sacrifice in "streetability"....

Armor