old muscle wanted to play

[anti-social]

I was on my way home from getting my N20 bottle filled. I was at a red light and I see a nice red 68 camaro in my rear view. We take off cruisin and he gets in front of me and stops at a red light. We take off again and I get in front of him. He's behind me at another red light. We take off and now he floors it & trys to go around me. As soon as he gets even with my car I sprayed it for 2 seconds & he fell back about a half a car. He didnt want to play after that. This was actually the first time i sprayed with my new converter from a roll. Felt good, but i need a tune.

[shady milkman]

yea man old school muscle cant mess with new school..

[Marc87GN]

yea man old school muscle cant mess with new school..

Really? :)

Nice kill by the threadstarter.

[96z28]

old muscle is wicked. You never know what might be under them hoods

[SeVeReDiStOrTiOn]

Really? :)



:haha: No doubt your GN is wicked fast but does it qualify as old school muscle...now that's the question:)

[shady milkman]

Really? :)

Nice kill by the threadstarter.

yes refering to stock vs stock..plus 87 isnt old school

[ss~zoso~ss]

umm. did it really take the nos to pull on him, or did you just do it for fun

aka would he have won straight up?

[ss~zoso~ss]

i had a similar story a bit ago with a 396 69' SS

[AKIRA]

Ive noticed that old muscle cars that basically created this hobby of ours were that fast from the factory. Some were, but most of them werent. 15s-16s?

[99blueZ]

old muscle is wicked. You never know what might be under them hoods

Well said. A while back i saw a mint looking plymouth superbird DESTROY a terminator cobra. It was a heads up race and the 'bird had seriously like 5+ car on him after like 300 ft. Then the cobra just :giveup: It was sickkkk fast - i wish i knew what he had.

[third_shift|studios]

that's cool that a dude with classica actually raced. most of them can be tight-end, lame asses.

[anti-social]

umm. did it really take the nos to pull on him, or did you just do it for fun

aka would he have won straight up?

Wasent a real race, just playing around plus i wanted to see how the N2o was with my new converter. He probibly would of had me cause my engine is all stock.

[apache]

yea man old school muscle cant mess with new school..

I'm not so sure about that. SOme of those old Trans Ams and Camaros from the early to mid 70s were mean machines. The gov't at the time was introducing many power robbing emissions controls. But before those regulations, there was some serious torque and hp on those babys. You must respect the old school!

[shady milkman]

I'm not so sure about that. SOme of those old Trans Ams and Camaros from the early to mid 70s were mean machines. The gov't at the time was introducing many power robbing emissions controls. But before those regulations, there was some serious torque and hp on those babys. You must respect the old school!

respect yes i do, but the 4th gens are the fastest trans ams and camaros period. but yes they id pack some serious shit under those hoods

[Street Lethal]

respect yes i do, but the 4th gens are the fastest trans ams and camaros period.

As for the fourth generation F-Body's being the fastest period, you are sadly mistaken. Have you ever driven in a third generation '89 TTA? Ever driven a '74 Super Duty Trans Am? How about a high winding (up to 7500-RPM, without floating the valves) late 60's Z28 302? What about a Motion Performance inspired (from the factory) Camaro with a guaranteed eleven second pass (or your money was gladly refunded)? To settle such a dispute right here and now, what about the infamous ZL1 Camaro (easy elevens)? These cars ran the numbers that they did while spinning the tires the length of the track. Put a set of slicks on them, and your looking at factory twelve, eleven and TEN second street terrors... ;)

[shady milkman]

As for the fourth generation F-Body's being the fastest period, you are sadly mistaken. Have you ever driven in a third generation '89 TTA? Ever driven a '74 Super Duty Trans Am? How about a high winding (up to 7500-RPM, without floating the valves) late 60's Z28 302? What about a Motion Performance inspired (from the factory) Camaro with a guaranteed eleven second pass (or your money was gladly refunded)? To settle such a dispute right here and now, what about the infamous ZL1 Camaro (easy elevens)? These cars ran the numbers that they did while spinning the tires the length of the track. Put a set of slicks on them, and your looking at factory twelve, eleven and TEN second street terrors... ;)

ok were any one of those mass produced at the 4th gen levels? i'm not talking about rare ass optioned cars.

[shady milkman]

ok well i wasn't talking putting slicks, i was refeering to completely stock and i believe that the gmmc zl1 camaros were tested to be faster then the older lz1 but dont hold me to that becuase it could have been the other way around. screw it you win ..besides the 89 tta, 74 sdta, 302 and zl1...the 4th gens are fastest.

[69camarokid]

As for the fourth generation F-Body's being the fastest period, you are sadly mistaken. Have you ever driven in a third generation '89 TTA? Ever driven a '74 Super Duty Trans Am? How about a high winding (up to 7500-RPM, without floating the valves) late 60's Z28 302? What about a Motion Performance inspired (from the factory) Camaro with a guaranteed eleven second pass (or your money was gladly refunded)? To settle such a dispute right here and now, what about the infamous ZL1 Camaro (easy elevens)? These cars ran the numbers that they did while spinning the tires the length of the track. Put a set of slicks on them, and your looking at factory twelve, eleven and TEN second street terrors... ;)

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!! finally, im glad i saw someone put that down... no one is saying that the new camaros are not incredible machines, but its just that u have absolutly no room to bag on oldschool muscle, not only did it create the hobby we all love so much, but they were for the m,ost part just as fast, if not faster than there modern day counter parts, and thats with technology from 40 years ago... and that deserves some respect.:yup:

[jAgZ28]

302's were not that fast mid 14s from what i've seen i cant really speak for the sd 455. the tta was 4th gen level. but those others are too rare to be considered. as far as i remember the new zl1 was a 10 sec car maybe 9 its been a while since i've seen the vid

[Pythias]

DAMN STRAIGHT!!!! finally, im glad i saw someone put that down... no one is saying that the new camaros are not incredible machines, but its just that u have absolutly no room to bag on oldschool muscle, not only did it create the hobby we all love so much, but they were for the m,ost part just as fast, if not faster than there modern day counter parts, and thats with technology from 40 years ago... and that deserves some respect.:yup:

:flex: :yup: :aussie:

[apache]

ok were any one of those mass produced at the 4th gen levels? i'm not talking about rare ass optioned cars.

Was the OP's car mass produced with nitrous? I don't think it was even a fair race.

[Street Lethal]

302's were not that fast mid 14s from what i've seen i cant really speak for the sd 455...

The race inspired 302's that were offered by the factory were much faster than fourteen's. Horsepower was severely under-rated due to insurance purposes, but it is well known that they were putting out well over four hundered ponies. Mind you, the 302's camshafts were designed to make tremendous power under the curve, as well as peak (in excess of 7000-RPM), and believe me, they ran faster than what was purposely quoted by the magazines...

As for the Pontiac 455, the Super Duty engine catapulted the second generation Trans Am to a thirteen second pass, with severely limited traction. It too was seriously under-rated when it came to horsepower claims, but the real torque figures it produced proved, at least to those who know how to calculate horsepower, that it made much more to what was being claimed...

the tta was 4th gen level.

The TTA was not on fourth generation level. The fourth generation was on the TTA's level. Study up on the TTA's ignition system, and you'll get my point. Plus, without touching any engine internals, all it takes to make the TTA run low elevens, and even tens, in some cases, is to "up" its boost (remaining completely streetable)...

but those others are too rare to be considered. as far as i remember the new zl1 was a 10 sec car maybe 9 its been a while since i've seen the vid...

Your missing my point. Today's fourth generation F-Body's were not the fastest. Most stock LS1 F-Body's average low 13 second passes, even w/slicks. My good friend takes his bone stock '74 SD Trans Am to the track once in awhile, and with the addition of just slicks, clicks off low to mid twelves. Yes, comfort isn't the best, and all weather idling is far from perfect, but the point was, that's a thirty two year old stock car that will humiliate my 98 Trans Am sporting a Ported MAF, Ported TB, SLP Lid, SLP U/D, K&N Filter, FRA and TCI-3500 stall... ;)

As for the new ZL1, being compared to the old ZL1, I don't see the relevance there, to be honest. Both of them are tremendous efforts put fourth by dedicated GM enthusiasts. One is not better than the other, they are simply on the same level of greatness. Not to mention, to think that an old 427 big block from the 60's is not capeable of 8's in the quarter mile would be a very big mistake. Car's are always as fast as its maker wants them to be. The '79 Trans Am (sporting the Olds 403) could have have been released running 12's, but it wasn't (GM's choice). The turbo, from the Pontiac 301, could have been utilized on the Pontiac 400 engine instead for the early 80's Trans Am's, but it wasn't (GM's choice), and on and on. See what I'm getting at? ;)

[69camarokid]

The race inspired 302's that were offered by the factory were much faster than fourteen's. Horsepower was severely under-rated due to insurance purposes, but it is well known that they were putting out well over four hundered ponies. Mind you, the 302's camshafts were designed to make tremendous power under the curve, as well as peak (in excess of 7000-RPM), and believe me, they ran faster than what was purposely quoted by the magazines...

As for the Pontiac 455, the Super Duty engine catapulted the second generation Trans Am to a thirteen second pass, with severely limited traction. It too was seriously under-rated when it came to horsepower claims, but the real torque figures it produced proved, at least to those who know how to calculate horsepower, that it made much more to what was being claimed...



The TTA was not on fourth generation level. The fourth generation was on the TTA's level. Study up on the TTA's ignition system, and you'll get my point. Plus, without touching any engine internals, all it takes to make the TTA run low elevens, and even tens, in some cases, is to "up" its boost (remaining completely streetable)...



Your missing my point. Today's fourth generation F-Body's were not the fastest. Most stock LS1 F-Body's average low 13 second passes, even w/slicks. My good friend takes his bone stock '74 SD Trans Am to the track once in awhile, and with the addition of just slicks, clicks off low to mid twelves. Yes, comfort isn't the best, and all weather idling is far from perfect, but the point was, that's a thirty two year old stock car that will humiliate my 98 Trans Am sporting a Ported MAF, Ported TB, SLP Lid, SLP U/D, K&N Filter, FRA and TCI-3500 stall... ;)

As for the new ZL1, being compared to the old ZL1, I don't see the relevance there, to be honest. Both of them are tremendous efforts put fourth by dedicated GM enthusiasts. One is not better than the other, they are simply on the same level of greatness. Not to mention, to think that an old 427 big block from the 60's is not capeable of 8's in the quarter mile would be a very big mistake. Car's are always as fast as its maker wants them to be. The '79 Trans Am (sporting the Olds 403) could have have been released running 12's, but it wasn't (GM's choice). The turbo, from the Pontiac 301, could have been utilized on the Pontiac 400 engine instead for the early 80's Trans Am's, but it wasn't (GM's choice), and on and on. See what I'm getting at? ;)

you sir, have my Undying allegiance :yourock:

[shady milkman]

The race inspired 302's that were offered by the factory were much faster than fourteen's. Horsepower was severely under-rated due to insurance purposes, but it is well known that they were putting out well over four hundered ponies. Mind you, the 302's camshafts were designed to make tremendous power under the curve, as well as peak (in excess of 7000-RPM), and believe me, they ran faster than what was purposely quoted by the magazines...

As for the Pontiac 455, the Super Duty engine catapulted the second generation Trans Am to a thirteen second pass, with severely limited traction. It too was seriously under-rated when it came to horsepower claims, but the real torque figures it produced proved, at least to those who know how to calculate horsepower, that it made much more to what was being claimed...



The TTA was not on fourth generation level. The fourth generation was on the TTA's level. Study up on the TTA's ignition system, and you'll get my point. Plus, without touching any engine internals, all it takes to make the TTA run low elevens, and even tens, in some cases, is to "up" its boost (remaining completely streetable)...



Your missing my point. Today's fourth generation F-Body's were not the fastest. Most stock LS1 F-Body's average low 13 second passes, even w/slicks. My good friend takes his bone stock '74 SD Trans Am to the track once in awhile, and with the addition of just slicks, clicks off low to mid twelves. Yes, comfort isn't the best, and all weather idling is far from perfect, but the point was, that's a thirty two year old stock car that will humiliate my 98 Trans Am sporting a Ported MAF, Ported TB, SLP Lid, SLP U/D, K&N Filter, FRA and TCI-3500 stall... ;)

As for the new ZL1, being compared to the old ZL1, I don't see the relevance there, to be honest. Both of them are tremendous efforts put fourth by dedicated GM enthusiasts. One is not better than the other, they are simply on the same level of greatness. Not to mention, to think that an old 427 big block from the 60's is not capeable of 8's in the quarter mile would be a very big mistake. Car's are always as fast as its maker wants them to be. The '79 Trans Am (sporting the Olds 403) could have have been released running 12's, but it wasn't (GM's choice). The turbo, from the Pontiac 301, could have been utilized on the Pontiac 400 engine instead for the early 80's Trans Am's, but it wasn't (GM's choice), and on and on. See what I'm getting at? ;)


for one, i'm not "baging" old school...but you said ")? To settle such a dispute right here and now, what about the infamous ZL1 Camaro (easy elevens)? " the new ZL1's are faster so take that car off the list. but i appoligize the 4th gens aren't the fastest camaros and t/as ever produced..even though the 2002 ZL1 i believe could take all those cars. but w/e. who the hell is this 69camarokid? i have respect for old school. i know old school is fast, so stfu telling me i have no room to talk about them. respect your king :) lol but ya i supose i should say that the 4th gens are the fastest generation of camaros and T/As.

[Street Lethal]

for one, i'm not "baging" old school...but you said ")? To settle such a dispute right here and now, what about the infamous ZL1 Camaro (easy elevens)? " the new ZL1's are faster so take that car off the list....

Kindly embellish on the specs of the new ZL1 engine, in comparison to the old, and the answer as to why the former is faster than the latter will immediately become prevalent for you...

but i appoligize the 4th gens aren't the fastest camaros and t/as ever produced, even though the 2002 ZL1 i believe could take all those cars...

Shady, that was the point of my second response. The newer ZL1's are absolutely incredible, but the older one's were made to be just as fast by outside affiliates also. Nine's in the quarter mile is nothing new, especially not to General Motors. The earlier ZL1's were released the way they were, for obvious reasons. Suspension technology of yester-year was nowhere near today's, and if GM offered a nine second Camaro back then from the factory (which make no mistake, they could have) they might as well been giving away free tombstone's along with them...

[Street Lethal]

even though the 2002 ZL1 i believe could take all those cars.

Here, here's a little history (http://www.quillnewspaper.com/Jan03/a0804a1.html) behind the ZL1 concept. Note when reading that not all of the newer ZL1's received the 600 horsepower package, and also take note of how an older ZL1, back on October 8, 1971, set a record of 9.63 seconds at 143 mph, while winning the Pro Stock World Championship...

Like I said earlier, both concepts (old and new) are on the very same level of greatness, and comparing them to each other would be pretty irrelevant to the discussion... ;)

[shady milkman]

:giveup: i happily forfet this argument

[phatsat67]

Yeaaa.. Tobad it wasn't a copo camaro.:flex: With the money old muscle is bringing today people put craaaazy money into the engines thus making them bad ass street cars. My buddies hemi challenger looks all stock but makes 530+ at the crank. If were talkin nitrous lets throw a 200 shot on my plymouth:ar: haha. Anything can compete with anything as long as the owner has enough coin.$$$$$$$. LS1's are sick and so are older engines its all in what you put into them.

[Marc87GN]

:haha: No doubt your GN is wicked fast but does it qualify as old school muscle...now that's the question:)

Beats me. It's 19 years old next month.

[shady milkman]

Beats me. It's 19 years old next month.

yea its like 79 on down...thats what alot of people consider old school muscle...before the gov't started stoping all of our fun :(

[import slayer]

I was on my way home from getting my N20 bottle filled. I was at a red light and I see a nice red 68 camaro in my rear view. We take off cruisin and he gets in front of me and stops at a red light. We take off again and I get in front of him. He's behind me at another red light. We take off and now he floors it & trys to go around me. As soon as he gets even with my car I sprayed it for 2 seconds & he fell back about a half a car. He didnt want to play after that. This was actually the first time i sprayed with my new converter from a roll. Felt good, but i need a tune.

What kind of converter do you have and what are your other mods?

[05gtoautoX]

old school muscle is anything built before 1974 IMHO, the GN is awesome but not quite old school, it is fuel injected, again my opinion. But there were some bad cars built back in the 60s-70s, just as today. Both deserve respect, the 60s cars for starting the musclecar craze and todays for keeping it going. Both have their equals and opposites in performance.

[shady milkman]

old school muscle is anything built before 1974 IMHO, the GN is awesome but not quite old school, it is fuel injected, again my opinion. But there were some bad cars built back in the 60s-70s, just as today. Both deserve respect, the 60s cars for starting the musclecar craze and todays for keeping it going. Both have their equals and opposites in performance.

wasn't FI an option on some of the first corvettes? i think they bring in some HUGE bank at classic auctions

[toneloc60]

FI was an option on the '57 vette and the Bel Air.

Oh, and old school deserves much respect.
454 Ls6 '70 Chevelle SS -- rated at 450 HP 500 ft/lbs TQ, cough cough.

[Fire Chicken of Doom]

My neighbor Scott has a 600 HP GN but hes cammed, stroked, forged and like 24psi.

He hung with a Modena on the freeway and flipped the guy off :)


...it was funny....



...really...


...really...












...really....





funny!

[nhraformula]

I'm not so sure about that. SOme of those old Trans Ams and Camaros from the early to mid 70s were mean machines. The gov't at the time was introducing many power robbing emissions controls. But before those regulations, there was some serious torque and hp on those babys. You must respect the old school!

if they dynoed those old school motors by todays standards, they wouldnt be all that.
almost all of the fastest old school cars from back in the day were 13 second wonders.
i fuckin hate hearing old men talk about how their camaro this or gto that did 11s out of the factory, they are soo full of shit.
i have yet to lose to a old "stock" muscle car.

[nhraformula]

street lethal, i owned a 73 ta with a 455. the fucker with slicks did low 13s.
it was totally stock outside of the tires when i did a few runs right after i bought it. i wish i didnt hack that car up and make it a track only car, it be worth some bank now.

[Agent13]

You are correct, my 69 SS396 was a 15 sec car in stock form & my GTO runs 13's, here's the but,,,, both are still appreciating, or at least holding the gains they made in value since about 85. I can't say the same for my 02, it's worth less every day & costs a fortune to insure compared to the old cars. There is no way a stock old muscle car can compete with the performance and handling of a 4th gen, especially a LS1 car. There are always the extreme examples like Hemi Darts & Thunderbolts, but these were basically factory race cars, and they weren't rolling down main street in every town.
I get to listen to guys at cruise night talk about 11 second muscle cars, I'm sure the older they get, the faster they were.....Truth be known some of the fastest muscle cars were some of the obscure ones, Buick GSX, OLDS & Pontiac.
I've had a lot of 396 cars, love em, but they aren't show room quick, not like getting into an LS1 car with all the creature comforts & still run mid 13's, now if they would just stop depreciating !!

[shady milkman]

You are correct, my 69 SS396 was a 15 sec car in stock form & my GTO runs 13's, here's the but,,,, both are still appreciating, or at least holding the gains they made in value since about 85. I can't say the same for my 02, it's worth less every day & costs a fortune to insure compared to the old cars. There is no way a stock old muscle car can compete with the performance and handling of a 4th gen, especially a LS1 car. There are always the extreme examples like Hemi Darts & Thunderbolts, but these were basically factory race cars, and they weren't rolling down main street in every town.
I get to listen to guys at cruise night talk about 11 second muscle cars, I'm sure the older they get, the faster they were.....Truth be known some of the fastest muscle cars were some of the obscure ones, Buick GSX, OLDS & Pontiac.
I've had a lot of 396 cars, love em, but they aren't show room quick, not like getting into an LS1 car with all the creature comforts & still run mid 13's, now if they would just stop depreciating !!

lol no keep the depreciating comming intill i can afford a 01-02 :D then jump that shit up