Ram air mod

[WS6RedDragon]

I have a WS6 and was wondering if it was worth taking out the hood baffles and if so what kind of kit does anybody recommend.

[Zboner]

the baffles just make it quiet man, notthing more nothin less.

[Beast]

Are you talking about the hood baffles (behind the ram air nostrils), or the air silencers behind the stock airbox (the two plastic jugs that hang behind the stock airbox) If you are talking about the air silencers, get rid of them, no problem. SLP, G2, and several other places sell replacement lids which allow you to get rid of them.

However if you are talking about the hood baffles, there are a few posts on this, try the search button to dig them up. :yup: However the short story is that there are differing opinions on whether or not it does anything, and whether it is worth it or not. Some people rave about better throttle response, others didn't notice anything, or experienced problems. If your car doesn't get driven in the rain though, then you should be fine.

Personally, I wouldn't do it because my car is a daily driver, and 70 mph + rain - hood baffles = potential problems. There is a kit made to do it, but as I recall, it comes with inserts to use in the rain to plug up the nostrils to keep this from happening? You can remove the baffles yourself by cutting them out though.

There is another mod made by Fast Toy's, in which they cut out the plastic beneath the air filter, and insert a sheetmetal duct down there, which lets some of the high pressure air that is scooped from under the car and normally goes into the radiator into you filter. I have heard bad things about it, like people hitting big water puddles and hydro-locking their engine. On the other hand there are dozens of people claiming good throttle response after the mod... I have the free version of this done on my car (cutting away the plastic but not having the fancy duct work), and I'm not happy with it anymore. If I could un-do it I would. :cry:

Mark :usa:

[WS6RedDragon]

So basically I shouldnt do anything and yes I was reffering to the the hood baffles. I have a SLP air lid so I wasnt reffering to the other baffles. I was thinking about buying this before I made this thread http://www.afterthoughtsauto.com/bg-ram-air.html. I was just trying to gain every tenth I could. I guess I will use the $240 towards a cam or something. Thanks

[Redphoenix1998]

BGRA is a great mod to do. It seals the box to the hood to pressurize the air coming in. I had something similar and it works well

[Redphoenix1998]

oh yea and also, you can't have the BGRA and a fast toys kit because it creates a lot of turbulence. It's one or the other and all your preference

[BBATCAR]

Taking out the baffles and sealing it to the air box or BGRA is a great mod. For cost savings I removed the baffles and seal the air box entrance to the nostrils with a foam strip myself. I noticed some difference in performance at higher speeds and I get 20-40 more miles per tank full of gas. An Air Lid is a must with this mod IMO.

I've driven in hard rain and barely get any drops of water near the air box. I bought the "rain shields" separately for $20 or so as insurance. I also have a K&N filter, so far no problems in 3 years and it is my daily driver.:yup:

[WS6RedDragon]

where did you get the rain sheilds from?

[BBATCAR]

Got mine from a member 99ramair, email Ken (he's in Canada, but fast service)

fbody99@shaw.ca

He's a cool guy and has a lot of stuff for a reasonable price. Hope that helps...

[Demonicbird00]

i go w/ the BG

[Mieux97]

Can this be done with a raptor hood?

[666ws6]

I have the BGRA mod too. Well worth i think. Even at idle, you can actually feel the engine pulling in the air with the hood closed. Never had a problem in heavy rain. The foam doesn't last all that long if you open/close your hood a lot. It depends on just how close your hood is to the airbox lid.

BGRA makes your WS6 true.

[Tinman2000]

Have tried to reach Ken about the rain baffles for the ram air hoods, but fbody99@shaw.ca is no longer working. Any other possible contact info?
Thanks

[walt's 98 ta]

what exactly was the bgra mod?? I have the unique ability to possibly fabricate mods for these cars foremost because it's a labor of love, and 2nd because we have a foundry on our property which was ran for years as a true metal working foundry. Anyone have any suggestions of mods/products that could bring a performance gain for the Ls1 cars coupled with a market willing to spend the $ ??

[walt's 98 ta]

how come no body can post a photo of this top secret mod???

[walt's 98 ta]

how come no body can post a photo of this top secret mod???

[BIG GUNS]

WS6 store sells a pretty good seal system called the JAAM RAM. I have the lower plenum only since I can't take advantage of the upper seal.

Take a look at that if that helps:

http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=235_89_433&products_id=2146

[ls1camino]

what exactly was the bgra mod?? I have the unique ability to possibly fabricate mods for these cars foremost because it's a labor of love, and 2nd because we have a foundry on our property which was ran for years as a true metal working foundry. Anyone have any suggestions of mods/products that could bring a performance gain for the Ls1 cars coupled with a market willing to spend the $ ??

how come no body can post a photo of this top secret mod???

It's not sold anymore...if you notice this thread was started back in 2005.

Here is a link to the item:
http://www.afterthoughtsauto.com/bg-ram-air.html

[walt's 98 ta]

"it's not sold anymore" I knew that, hence why i asked "what WAS the bgra mod? not what is? My point is i can make it if i can see what it looked like, does anyone have the ability to take a photo of it on car or off?

[OhTwo]

OK, I have the BGRA as well but since I'm at work (in Iowa in the snow - not driving my car) I can't get a picture at this time. The link to Brian's original page is still active: http://www.geocities.com/brian98ramair/Cold_Air_Pics.html

If you have any other questions, let me know.

[walt's 98 ta]

I guess i need to see it installed because from the Bgra site i cant completely tell why it's so effective. It appears to be injection molded plastic, that seals/ funnels all the air from top and bottom nostrils into the air box, which is further sealed by an inch (or so) thick piece of plastic as well. it looks to mount to the hood via the corner piece mounts they supplied and the stock "grill or rain baffles" are removed?

[OhTwo]

I guess i need to see it installed because from the Bgra site i cant completely tell why it's so effective. It appears to be injection molded plastic, that seals/ funnels all the air from top and bottom nostrils into the air box, which is further sealed by an inch (or so) thick piece of plastic as well. it looks to mount to the hood via the corner piece mounts they supplied and the stock "grill or rain baffles" are removed?

Correct on the material - injection molded plastic. It only seals the actual WS6 hood nostrils to the airbox - not the lower air intake areas below the nostrils. With the hood baffles removed and the funnels installed in the hood, the funnels direct the air from the front (hood) openings to the rear (airbox) opening. The funnels are only used to cut down on "dead air" within the WS6 hood. I'm not sure they are necessary but they were part of the kit. The corner piece mounts were used if you wanted to take out the nostril grills. I have different grills from an out of business company so didn't have any use for the corner pieces. Once again, with the grills removed, it was supposed to increase air flow since nothing (like a grill) would be in the way. The final piece was the back rectangular piece that mounts to the back of the hood opening. This has a gasket that seals the plastic piece to the actual air box. This gasket is the piece that needs to be replaced from time to time if it fits to tight against the airbox. If it rained, you were supposed to open your hood, pull out the gasket, and insert the rain shield in place of the gasket. Oh yeah, there were also a few rubber plugs that fit in the various openings in the hood to help in sealing.

The previously mentioned Ken Winkler had a gasket that sealed against the airbox and probably lasted longer but his setup didn't include the internal funnels. He also sold rain guards that you put on the front (from the outside) of the hood nostrils. Here's a picture of his gasket and rain shields: http://www.ls1.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=3123&d=1141250388

[OhTwo]

Have tried to reach Ken about the rain baffles for the ram air hoods, but fbody99@shaw.ca is no longer working. Any other possible contact info?
Thanks

I have a different email address for Ken but I haven't emailed him for about two years so not sure it's good anymore. Here's what I have: fbody99 AT mts DOT net

[walt's 98 ta]

well if we can all put together enough info, i should be able to fab soemthing up in our shop. I dont see any problem making it, the issue with bgra profibility was probably a result of too much middle man. i'd do the fab and sale myself. If it really can take a stock ls1 into the high 12's there should def be a market. I'd love to have one of his kits to duplicate and or improve upon. Maybe even create somehting for the SS camaro guys.

[Tinman2000]

I was able to reach Ken @ fbody99@mts.net He directed me to his site http://rides.webshots.com/album/44929351NTfDIv for his version and some other great shots. His rain baffles go in the FRONT of the nostril openings compared to the unit fromhttp://www.geocities.com/brian98rama...AIRPIC.html that goes between the hood and air box opening

[aspkkr]

That add says it uses all four nostrils to take in air. Thats not a good idea because the bottom notrils actually build a high pressure area in front of the car. Kind of an air dam. Anyway with out that pocket of air the ram-air would not funtion, air would simply fly over the hood. This is what happens with SS Camaros. This not a matter of opinion its how the system was designed.

[hot93rod]

I was able to reach Ken @ fbody99@mts.net He directed me to his site http://rides.webshots.com/album/44929351NTfDIv for his version and some other great shots. His rain baffles go in the FRONT of the nostril openings compared to the unit fromhttp://www.geocities.com/brian98rama...AIRPIC.html that goes between the hood and air box opening

So w/those nostril covers he has, is the car still going to pull in much air when the hood is sealed to the airbox? It seems like it would be starving for air if that were done... Also, who completed this mod, and has really had a problem, it seems like it is just a "bad idea" in some circumstances...

[JWSmythe]

I pulled my baffles out years ago. It was the night I was putting my NOS kit on. I reached up to see my fingers through the grills, and hit them.

In theory, they're very restrictive. There was only a little gap at the top and bottom. I drilled out the rivets, and tossed them in the trash.

A little while later, I installed a vac/boost gauge, thinking someday I may install a turbo or supercharger. Neither has happened yet. I will say, I see no "boost" effect, even at WOT doing 80+ mph. It may let cooler air in, but it would have already been sucking in pretty cool air as it was.

As for rain, don't worry about it. Now I live in the "Sunshine State", Florida, where you'll see the worst rainstorms in the country for most of the summer. :) I've stopped because of blinding rain, but I've never had an engine problem from it.

Since doing that, I've helped the smooth air flow, from the nose all the way back to the throttle body. The increased diameter pieces have made a difference. Besides acceleration, I noticed downshifting was affected. I usually downshift at the same places going to and from work. When I made the airflow changes, it screwed up where I had to shift, so the first time I was driving home from work, I hit the off ramp a little fast. :) I didn't feel anything by just removing the baffles.

[hot93rod]

Very helpful... I think I'm completely sold on this one now, lol. Did you do the same thing others did as far as using weatherstrip between the hood, and airbox? I don't know how helpful that'd be, but wanted to hear it from you as well.

[Kaotic_ws6]

I took the baffles out of my hood too right after i got my car. i noticed alittle but mostly just above 80mph. :true:

[walt's 98 ta]

I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever calculated the ammount of airflow (cfm) generated by direct ram air as opposed to a super charger or turbo. I know that both generate substantially more power but at the cost of being driven by a power source, for turbos it's exhaust gases. In theory more air equals more power, but IMO maybe we're not feeling so much difference by removing baffles etc due to increased drag on the cars aerodynamics. Gain 5 horsepower, loose 4 type deal.

[hot93rod]

Do you really think it causes much more drag? If anything I think that would be the perfect way to allow air to flow through, by ramming it down your intake, haha. I don't see how it could cause much more drag than a non ws6 model..

[Kaotic_ws6]

Do you really think it causes much more drag? If anything I think that would be the perfect way to allow air to flow through, by ramming it down your intake, haha. I don't see how it could cause much more drag than a non ws6 model..

i dont see how it would. im with you.. the more air the better, but who knows?:thinkin:

[OhTwo]

I'd be curious to know if anyone has ever calculated the ammount of airflow (cfm) generated by direct ram air...

I think I remember someone on here or maybe ls1tech doing some testing on this but it might have been several years ago when the bgra was still available. I do remember lots of talk over time that it really doesn't do much until you get to higher speeds and then I'm sure it's not a huge difference. I think the big thing is that everything helps a little and if you want to be different from stock, then here's something else to do. I removed the baffles and installed the bgra some time ago and wouldn't change it back - partly because it's not available anymore and it's something I wanted to do to at the time which made my car different.

[Kaotic_ws6]

i Agree

[walt's 98 ta]

I dont know for sure, and i dont have the time to effectively test it. yea, who knows. but I think back to stories my pops told me about GTo's back in the day with ram air and apparently they had some type of levver to pull inorder to open the hood ducts up. The way he remembered it the car felt like it gained another 2 cylinders, and everyone in the cars heads stuck to the seats. now ours are always open so it's not as dramatic of a feeling/response. imo

[Too Fast]

I dont know for sure, and i dont have the time to effectively test it. yea, who knows. but I think back to stories my pops told me about GTo's back in the day with ram air and apparently they had some type of levver to pull inorder to open the hood ducts up. The way he remembered it the car felt like it gained another 2 cylinders, and everyone in the cars heads stuck to the seats. now ours are always open so it's not as dramatic of a feeling/response. imo

I believe that was first on the '69 Judge, the pull to open the ram air. And yeah, it really helped. I noticed the same thing with my '67 400 4-spd Firebird, I installed a reproduction ram air system and opened my hood scoops. I could use more spark advance and at the drag strip I gained .2 and 2 MPH. So I can believe the story about people in the GTO feeling the difference. As we all know, tho, it really is/was a CAI, not true ram air, with maybe a little bit of ramming happening above 80 MPH or so.

[walt's 98 ta]

CAI? im not up on all the computer terms.. OMG, BTW, LOL, Now cai? :)

[Siciliano15]

CAI? im not up on all the computer terms.. OMG, BTW, LOL, Now cai? :)

Cold Air Induction

[walt's 98 ta]

to my understanding (and i know a decent ammount about old and new cars) there is really no difference between cold air induction and the more muscular sounding Ram air. Cold air induction is a fairly modern term that started with the intercooled and turbo driven grand nationals and t-types. Yes cold air is more beneficial to any engine than hot or even warm but if the air your feeding your car comes from outside the engine bay, it's safe to say it's "cold" regardless of the term ram air or cold air intake. my 2 cents.

[Siciliano15]

to my understanding (and i know a decent ammount about old and new cars) there is really no difference between cold air induction and the more muscular sounding Ram air. Cold air induction is a fairly modern term that started with the intercooled and turbo driven grand nationals and t-types. Yes cold air is more beneficial to any engine than hot or even warm but if the air your feeding your car comes from outside the engine bay, it's safe to say it's "cold" regardless of the term ram air or cold air intake. my 2 cents.

yes but ram air is different than cold air because it typically comes from a hood "scoop" that makes the air enter the engine quicker than it normally would by forcing and pressurizing the intake at highway speeds in the same way a supercharger would but instead of 6psi its more like ½-1psi depending on quality of ram air system, how well it is sealed, and vehicle speed.

[walt's 98 ta]

it's 6 in one, half dozen in the other. My wifes mercedes AMG has "ram air" but it doesn't come from the hood, it comes through the grill. If I'm not mistaken Pontiac actually holds a patent on "ram air". So other companies will say other things like "cold air intake" or forced air scoops. shit like dat. mustang (yea i said it) cobras had hood scoops but they couldnt say "ram air"
suzuki moter cycles had a set up called S-RAD, all because they can't say.. bla bla bla

[Too Fast]

it's 6 in one, half dozen in the other. My wifes mercedes AMG has "ram air" but it doesn't come from the hood, it comes through the grill. If I'm not mistaken Pontiac actually holds a patent on "ram air". So other companies will say other things like "cold air intake" or forced air scoops. shit like dat. mustang (yea i said it) cobras had hood scoops but they couldnt say "ram air"
suzuki moter cycles had a set up called S-RAD, all because they can't say.. bla bla bla

Actually, Mustangs had a "Ram Air" on their hood scoops in 1970 or so. I thought Pontiac had the patent on it also. Believe it or not, the Mustangs also had an optional hood tach. I had a hood tach on my '67 GTO and '67 Firebird.

Hood tachs are da shit!:burnout:

[walt's 98 ta]

hood tachs are pretty cool. there was some cool muscle car stuff that kinda fell by the way side. You never see cowl induction anymore. Rarely do you see side exhaust exits (under the doors) or 2 speed (powerglide) transmissions that were almost meant exclusively for drag racing but made in mass by chevy in all kinds of cars. what about rear leaf springs, they were killer for reducing wheel hop and giving bitching traction.:shots: