Eibach Sportlines - Alignment problem

[kindaquick]

I recently put the Eibach Sportlines w/stock shocks on my Firehawk. I have since discovered that I need to get LCA relocation brackets, and an adjustable panhard rod. However, here's my question:

I had the alignment done by NTB (probably not the best place...) and they said they could not correct the camber to the factory spec. They said they have maxed it out, and the car still has a noticable bow on the front wheels. Can someone with the Eibach Sportline springs tell me if it is possible to get the wheels straight with an alignment? Perhaps NTB did not fully know what they were doing? It doesn't bow that much, but it is still annoying the heck out of me. Anyone have any suggestions? Is it necessary to have the LCA relocation brackets and adjustable panhard rod in order to correct the front end alignment? Or should it be able to be aligned without these components?

Thanks in advance!!!!

[DaLastLT1]

Can you post what the before and after results are??

I worked for NTB and ive done alot of speciality aligns for guys who autocross there corvettes and camaros, theres nothing wrong with taken it there. Now ive done some SS's where i just couldn't get the camber back to factory spec because the car was simply too low and it made the camber too far negitive to get it back into specs with the factory adjustment. as for the lca brackets it mainly used the help with wheel hop and keep the control arm location in the stock place. the PHR is always a good idea if you lower the car to keep the rear wheels center, if there not center it will throw off the readings to the front wheels in toe not necessarly camber/caster since it's a 4 wheel alignment not a 2 wheel alignment. Do you have a problem with the way the car drives or is it just the way it looks in your eye? Does it pull at all or the steering wheel crooked?

[Ed Blown Vert]

I don't know if you can with Sportlines, but my dealer was just barely able to align mine with the Pro-Kit.

[kindaquick]

I'll try to post the results. So far, I am not displeased with how the car drives, just the way it looks to the eye. Results:

Left Front:
Before camber: -0.2*
After camber: -1.4*
Before caster: 2.2*
After caster: 6.2*
Before toe: 0.17*
After toe: 0.04*

Right Front:
Before camber: -0.3*
After camber: -1.3*
Before caster: 2.0*
After caster 5.9*
Before toe: 0.75*
After toe: 0.06*

Front:
Before Cross Camber: 0.0*
After Cross Camber: -0.1*

Before Cross Caster: 0.2*
After Cross Caster: 0.3*

Before Total Toe: 0.92*
After Total Toe: .10*

Before Set Back: 0.19*
After Set Back: 0.24*

[DaLastLT1]

I'll try to post the results. So far, I am not displeased with how the car drives, just the way it looks to the eye. Results:

Left Front:
Before camber: -0.2*
After camber: -1.4*
Before caster: 2.2*
After caster: 6.2*
Before toe: 0.17*
After toe: 0.04*

Right Front:
Before camber: -0.3*
After camber: -1.3*
Before caster: 2.0*
After caster 5.9*
Before toe: 0.75*
After toe: 0.06*

Front:
Before Cross Camber: 0.0*
After Cross Camber: -0.1*

Before Cross Caster: 0.2*
After Cross Caster: 0.3*

Before Total Toe: 0.92*
After Total Toe: .10*

Before Set Back: 0.19*
After Set Back: 0.24*
im looking at some specs compared to your results. did you want your camber more negitive?? it was barley out of spec to begin with and IMO it would of been fine where it was, now caster needed to be fix but should of only been in the 4.3-5.3 degree range. now i know if you bought if from NTB the minium warranty you should have is a 6month or 6k miles. i would take it back and have them try it again, unless you wanted the more negitive camber if not have them put the camber back where it was and place the caster in between the 4.3-5.3 range then set toe. BTW was the rear out?

[kindaquick]

Left Rear:
Before Camber: -0.1
After Camber: -0.0
Before Toe: 0.06
After Toe: -0.02

Right Rear:
Before Camber: -0.4
After Camber: -0.2
Before Toe: 0.06
After Toe: -0.08

Rear:
Total Toe before: 0.12
Total Toe after: -0.09
Thrust Angle before: 0.00
Thrust Angle after: 0.03

Thanks for the help. Any suggestions are appreciated :)

[DaLastLT1]

ok the rear is fine and still within spec, and shouldn't of cause a problem with the front adjustments. so if you wanted the camber more negitive and set a certain spec then thats where it should stay to keep the car tracking straight. you may see more inner tire wear but if you keep them rotated (if you can) the you should be fine.

[kindaquick]

OK. I just had it re-aligned, and I am now happy with the way it sits. The Camber is maxed positive, and the caster is maxed as negative as it will go. The only thing I am worried about now is the rear end. Here are the before and after on the rear end. I am not sure why my previous printout said the rear thrust angle was in spec...do I need an adjustable panhard???

Left Rear:
Before Camber: 0.0
After Camber: 0.0
Before Toe: 20*
After Toe: 19*

Right Rear:
Before Camber: -0.2*
After Camber: -0.2*
Before Toe: -0.17*
After Toe: -0.16*

Rear:
Before Cross Camber: 0.2*
After Cross Camber: 0.2*
Total Toe Before: 0.03*
Total Toe After: 0.03*
Thrust Angle Before: 0.18*
Thrust Angle After: 0.17*

Anyone have an opinion on the thrust angle hurting my car's handling, performance, etc? I am REALLY interested in knowing if it will cause any issues with my rear end.

[DaLastLT1]

Glad to hear your happy now, As for the pinion angle the spec is .15 your at .17 i don't believe you will have a problem with the cars performance its such a small amount i wouldn't even worry about it.

[kindaquick]

Thanks for the advice DaLastLT1. I am curious about how the adjustable panhard works. Do I need to get it re-aligned after I put the adjustable rod on? Or does it just work with the current setup?

[DaLastLT1]

Thanks for the advice DaLastLT1. I am curious about how the adjustable panhard works. Do I need to get it re-aligned after I put the adjustable rod on? Or does it just work with the current setup?
no problem man, The adjustable panhard is mainly used the recenter the rear wheels after lowering a car cause the rear axle tends to shift. in your case you don't need it since your rear wheels are still within specs, but if you wanted one just in case something changes in the future you can take your stock piece off and adjust the adjustable one to the same length and put it back on and hopefully it will come out to be in the same postion that it was taken off in. I myself did that and used sight of eye to algin the rear cause it shifted the left and with 11'' wheels out back it makes it really noticeable when one wheel is tucked inside the fender and the other is not, and it just so happens that i put the rear back into spec just by using my eyes. IMO i would use the umi piece called "On The car adjustable" it's made to stay on the car and adjust rather than take it back off to adjust makes it easier to do alignments with it as well. Hope this helps

[kindaquick]

Great! Thanks again for the help.

[Eugenio_SS]

OK. I just had it re-aligned, and I am now happy with the way it sits. The Camber is maxed positive, and the caster is maxed as negative as it will go. The only thing I am worried about now is the rear end. Here are the before and after on the rear end. I am not sure why my previous printout said the rear thrust angle was in spec...do I need an adjustable panhard???

Left Rear:
Before Camber: 0.0
After Camber: 0.0
Before Toe: 20*
After Toe: 19*

Right Rear:
Before Camber: -0.2*
After Camber: -0.2*
Before Toe: -0.17*
After Toe: -0.16*

Rear:
Before Cross Camber: 0.2*
After Cross Camber: 0.2*
Total Toe Before: 0.03*
Total Toe After: 0.03*
Thrust Angle Before: 0.18*
Thrust Angle After: 0.17*

Anyone have an opinion on the thrust angle hurting my car's handling, performance, etc? I am REALLY interested in knowing if it will cause any issues with my rear end.

what about your caster ???
Just keep in mind to check your outside wear on the tires.
imho, they will wear more on the outside than the inside.
You have 0* camber... whenever going in straigth line, it wears evenly.
Whenever you turn, it wears faster and you wear more the outsides.
That's why you weren't able to get it to spec... stock specs on camber is positive :no:
GM did this to induce understeer.

Have fun w/ the car.
Whenever you decide to get another alignment... try to get some negative camber... it might not be bad if your castor is high... because the castor does make your camber more negative as you turn... so you might be ok...
hence my question: what was your caster ?