Pro charger suggestions [Archive] - LS1 Performance Information

z28misfit

07-19-2006, 03:00 PM

Ed Blown Vert

07-19-2006, 03:52 PM

The D1 should be fine

Packy

07-19-2006, 04:16 PM

Definitely the D1-SC!!!

Killer_bluebird

07-20-2006, 09:15 AM

Ok as far as the charger the D1-SC is a good choice. However you'll need to keep in mind that besides loosing the slp underdrive you will probably need to also loose G5x4 cam. Now if you go back to a stock cam you'll make only about 450-475hp so it doesn't sound like a huge improvement over what you have now. However with a nice FI friendly cam you'll be putting between 500-550hp. Just things to keep in mind as you plan your upgrades.

lt4ever

07-20-2006, 09:51 AM

What's the max psi boost the D1 can handle? I've heard its in the neighborhood of 12 psi. Is that correct?

Killer_bluebird

07-20-2006, 01:26 PM

If I remmember correctly EPP's camaro was running 15# on their stock motor demo car, although no one will recomend that you do the same. They where trying to run the engine until it blew then go with forged internals. It dynoed 540hp on a mustang dyno. Here is the link to the build although I think the car has gone throuhg some changes since then: http://www.exoticperformanceplus.com/projectCar.php?car=12

May be Bob can chime in!

Packy

07-20-2006, 06:42 PM

Yeah, 15 lbs. is about the max you can push on the D-1sc. I have heard of some overspinning it a bit for more but you would be better off running more timing and race gas instead of overspinning the blower IMO.

z28misfit

07-21-2006, 12:40 PM

I heard some people say I can keep my G5x4. I dont want to loose the aggressive idle the car has now. If I absolutely have to change cams, can I still get one that lopes like my cam does now?

Killer_bluebird

07-22-2006, 02:27 AM

I heard some people say I can keep my G5x4. I dont want to loose the aggressive idle the car has now. If I absolutely have to change cams, can I still get one that lopes like my cam does now?

It depends on the LSA and the duration of the cam. I imagine the duration may be a bit bigger than what would be optimal for an FI car but it may still be ok. Now you really want something with 114 or more LSA, so if your cam is 110 or 112 you would probably endup bleeding good amount of the boost due to the overlap. Again I don't think Lou publishes the specs on that cam so it is hard to be sure.

If anything we can trade cams. ;)

z28misfit

07-31-2006, 01:19 PM

what cam do you have?

GA Country Boy

08-03-2006, 01:27 PM

My cam has 114 LSA and I have also reduced my compression ratio to 8.4 by changing the heads. My completely stock motor had no problem putting down 455 rwhp with a P1SC at 7 lbs boost. Believe it or not P-1SC's are rated up to 2300 hp, but I would imagine you would have to be spinning them pretty good to get there. When I went to a forged motor I chose to upgrade my P-1SC to a D-1SC which Procharger says is good to 20psi which is more than I intend to produce. Anyway, a D-1SC at 11-12 lbs of boost with an eight-rib belt, lower compression heads and a good tune should put down around 640rwhp and 609lb-ft of torque. I'm going to install a smaller pulley tomorrow because I'm not producing enough boost to attain the aforementioned numbers and will probably get on the dyno on Saturday.

z28misfit

08-17-2006, 02:00 PM

Even if I decided to get rid of my g5x4, could someone still custom grind me a cam that works well with the supercharger and idle like my g5x4 does?

FasstChevys

08-17-2006, 03:30 PM

Even if I decided to get rid of my g5x4, could someone still custom grind me a cam that works well with the supercharger and idle like my g5x4 does?

Bob with EPP recommended the Lingenfelter GT23 camshaft for my WS6, 8 psi ProCharged car. I trust him. :) He also said I'd put down approximately 500 hp to the wheels with the 8 psi set up with that camshaft.

GA Country Boy

08-17-2006, 03:51 PM

Even if I decided to get rid of my g5x4, could someone still custom grind me a cam that works well with the supercharger and idle like my g5x4 does?

I don't know what a g5x4 cam is or who makes it, but there are a bunch of reputable companies that make cams like Crane, Lunati, Comp, Isky etc.
You have to decide what level of performance you want and if you want
something like what you have don't bother changing cams or get something with numbers close to what you have.

If you want to run mid-teens boost, you'll have to have less than 9:1CR. ATI suggests 8.5:1 to 9:1 for up to 10psi http://www.procharger.com/bebs.shtml. That suggests for 12-14psi boost you'd be closer to 8.5:1, or lets say maybe...8.65:1CR....hmmm?.... just so you're not at the absolute bottom CR. ATI also suggests a split duration cam of 112-116 LSA. Gee, a 114LSA cam is right in the middle. Of course a cam like that deserves a set of blower heads with hogged out exhaust ports.

GA Country Boy

08-17-2006, 04:45 PM

Bob with EPP recommended the Lingenfelter GT23 camshaft for my WS6, 8 psi ProCharged car. I trust him. :) He also said I'd put down approximately 500 hp to the wheels with the 8 psi set up with that camshaft.

Which model Procharger are you running and how much are you putting down?

Taken from WWW.Lingenfelter.com:

"Lingenfelter GT2-3 LS1 Camshaft & Spring Kit Lingenfelter offers one of the best STREET camshafts available for the LS1 engine. The Lingenfelter GT2-3 camshaft will produce excellent power and still have a smooth idle for automatic or six speed manual transmission equipped vehicles. Tests have shown 25-30 HP improvements over factory LS1 camshafts.
Suggested in 350-427 CID applications
Camshaft specifications: 207/220 573/.580 w 1.7 rocker 118.5 CL. Kit includes GM LS6 valve springs #12586484 which use the stock factory LS1 valve spring retainer. Camshafts ground by Competition Cams for Lingenfelter."

BUT I think Lingenfelter's GT1 Cam would be better for a BLOWER CAR. Here are the specs: LS1-GT1-1 229 / 242 .631" / .631" 114 CL
Again it depends on whether you want performance or a mildly modded car.

FasstChevys

08-17-2006, 05:21 PM

Which model Procharger are you running and how much are you putting down?

Taken from WWW.Lingenfelter.com:

"Lingenfelter GT2-3 LS1 Camshaft & Spring Kit Lingenfelter offers one of the best STREET camshafts available for the LS1 engine. The Lingenfelter GT2-3 camshaft will produce excellent power and still have a smooth idle for automatic or six speed manual transmission equipped vehicles. Tests have shown 25-30 HP improvements over factory LS1 camshafts.
Suggested in 350-427 CID applications
Camshaft specifications: 207/220 573/.580 w 1.7 rocker 118.5 CL. Kit includes GM LS6 valve springs #12586484 which use the stock factory LS1 valve spring retainer. Camshafts ground by Competition Cams for Lingenfelter."

BUT I think Lingenfelter's GT1 Cam would be better for a BLOWER CAR. Here are the specs: LS1-GT1-1 229 / 242 .631" / .631" 114 CL
Again it depends on whether you want performance or a mildly modded car.

D1........and it's never been dynoed. Bob with EPP said I should use the Lingenfelter GT2-3 cam. Define a "performance" car, or "mildly" modded. Mine runs in 11's now without the cam upgrade. You tell me?

msb184

08-17-2006, 08:12 PM

I have a 99 z28 and would like to run a pro charger
Current mods G5x4 cam
FAST90mm intake and throttle body
slp 85mm maf
slp underdrive(pretty sure this will have to go)
pacesetter race headers and y pipe
loudmouth
4.10 gears
Rebuilt tranny rated to 600 or so hp
spec stage 3 clutch
Current hp is 412rwhp.

I would like to put heads on this car and possibly rebuild my bottom end.
Which pro charger kit should i consider(this is not a daily driver)
The D1SC would be good. Save some$$ & just buy the head unit from ATI. The rest of their kit is poor.1) The rubber hose is very hard,replace with silicone 2) the clamps are cheap rad. hose type,get T-BOLT clamps 3)the mount is just bad,weak with alignment probs.etc. I use an ECS10 RIB on a very well made kit from ECS. You don't need a 10 RIB but an 8 RIB would be a big step up from the 6 RIB in the std. kit. They are very nice people & very helpful. Best machine work I have ever seen. ON the heads ,you might look at ET . The deck is .800 thick vs. .350 stock. I use the 265 cc runners but they make them fron 215 cc up. I did not see cu. in. you have but 225 is popular with lots of people. The size of the motor is the most important consideration(along with intended use) for everything. The parts I mentioned are on a 427 that is fairly stout with 18 psi boost etc. Vendors are helpful(most) but ECS has been the best for the 3 LS motors I've had. GOOD LUCK !! p. s. CAM MOTION does nothing but custom cams & they are highly regarded by hard core racers & st. guys alike. also- real nice folks.

GA Country Boy

08-17-2006, 08:49 PM

D1........and it's never been dynoed. Bob with EPP said I should use the Lingenfelter GT2-3 cam. Define a "performance" car, or "mildly" modded. Mine runs in 11's now without the cam upgrade. You tell me?

Sorry didn't mean for anybody to get their nose out of joint. You're doing good running 11's. You should get it on the dyno and see what you're putting down,
because ET's alone don't tell the whole story. I have a friend who's putting down
425rwhp (175rwhp less than me), but ran the 1/4 faster at 10:58/125.45.

As to the cam, compare the specs of the two, and read what Procharger recommends. If you're not going to believe the people who make your blower,
who are you going to believe?

z28misfit

09-12-2006, 12:30 PM

If I have the money this coming summer, I'll probably buy the D1sc. I know my cam is not optimal for it but I want more power than I have. I also want to see how much boost my stock bottom end can take before it decides to blow.

z28misfit

09-12-2006, 12:31 PM

I would take the easy route and just buy nitrous, but I don't feel like having to always get a bottle filled.

GA Country Boy

09-12-2006, 01:23 PM

I would take the easy route and just buy nitrous, but I don't feel like having to always get a bottle filled.

You've always got to get your gas tank filled, so it's somewhat the same idea except you wont have to do it as often. Also if money is a problem it's a lot cheaper than putting a blower on and a heck of a lot cheaper than replacing a
demolished engine. But you can run a 150 hp or less Nitrous sytem with a good tune fairly safely and have a lot of fun. And you can always use bigger bottles and/or even dual bottles to keep you going longer between fill-ups.

FasstChevys

09-12-2006, 01:30 PM

Sorry didn't mean for anybody to get their nose out of joint. You're doing good running 11's. You should get it on the dyno and see what you're putting down,
because ET's alone don't tell the whole story. I have a friend who's putting down
425rwhp (175rwhp less than me), but ran the 1/4 faster at 10:58/125.45.

As to the cam, compare the specs of the two, and read what Procharger recommends. If you're not going to believe the people who make your blower,
who are you going to believe?

Wow, your friend must have a great set up and a car that hooks like death! My Camaro has approx. 440 rwhp and runs 11.70's, (1.70 60' foot times) but, it's also 3580 lbs without me in it. It sounds like your friend's car might be considerably lighter, and most definitely hooks better.

I guess in closing, the people I tend to believe are the people who actually do it and deal with all the quirks and problems. I think Bob w/EPP is an excellent example of just that, and I trust what he says. :) Hell, I deal with engineers all day at work, and they always tell me what "should" work, or what it "should" do, without ever running the process themselves. I'm not necessarily saying ProCharger (or any other company for that matter) doesn't do any research, but I do know Bob has.

Packy

09-12-2006, 02:04 PM

Which model Procharger are you running and how much are you putting down?

Taken from WWW.Lingenfelter.com: (http://WWW.Lingenfelter.com:)

"Lingenfelter GT2-3 LS1 Camshaft & Spring Kit Lingenfelter offers one of the best STREET camshafts available for the LS1 engine. The Lingenfelter GT2-3 camshaft will produce excellent power and still have a smooth idle for automatic or six speed manual transmission equipped vehicles. Tests have shown 25-30 HP improvements over factory LS1 camshafts.
Suggested in 350-427 CID applications
Camshaft specifications: 207/220 573/.580 w 1.7 rocker 118.5 CL. Kit includes GM LS6 valve springs #12586484 which use the stock factory LS1 valve spring retainer. Camshafts ground by Competition Cams for Lingenfelter."

BUT I think Lingenfelter's GT1 Cam would be better for a BLOWER CAR. Here are the specs: LS1-GT1-1 229 / 242 .631" / .631" 114 CL
Again it depends on whether you want performance or a mildly modded car.

That GT1 cam is not an optimal cam for a blower car unless it is gonna be a weekend driver or see mostly track time. That is just my opinion though. It seems a little too big!

I made 546rwhp with a set of worked stock heads(241 casting), 214/224 cam and 7 psi through P-1SC. That is the beauty of FI it lets you run a slightly milder set-up for driveability purposes and still make a decent amount of power when desire to!!!

GA Country Boy

09-12-2006, 04:30 PM

That GT1 cam is not an optimal cam for a blower car unless it is gonna be a weekend driver or see mostly track time. That is just my opinion though. It seems a little too big!

I made 546rwhp with a set of worked stock heads(241 casting), 214/224 cam and 7 psi through P-1SC. That is the beauty of FI it lets you run a slightly milder set-up for driveability purposes and still make a decent amount of power when desire to!!!

That's why I qualified what I said "depends on what you want etc". You're doing good with a P-1SC-1. The best I could do with that blower @7 psi on a completely stock motor (.479/.467 207/196 116 lsa) was 455/442. You're making almost 100rwhp more than I was and nearly as much as I am now with a D-1SC, forged motor, worked heads, lower c/r and 14 psi! AND you were somewhere between 620 and 665 hp at the flywheel! That's really impressive!!! That's almost a 100% increase over stock!!!

Packy

09-12-2006, 05:51 PM

That's why I qualified what I said "depends on what you want etc". You're doing good with a P-1SC-1. The best I could do with that blower @7 psi on a completely stock motor (.479/.467 207/196 116 lsa) was 455/442. You're making almost 100rwhp more than I was and nearly as much as I am now with a D-1SC, forged motor, worked heads, lower c/r and 14 psi! AND you were somewhere between 620 and 665 hp at the flywheel! That's really impressive!!! That's almost a 100% increase over stock!!!

I know you stated that before. I was just wanting to give him some more examples.

I have a forged motor with a lower c/r also. Only I have half the boost you do. Some day here soon I am going to add a Meth kit with my new pulley and take her for a re-tune!!! Then maybe I'll see the 6XX to the wheels...:flex:

GA Country Boy

09-12-2006, 06:27 PM

I know you stated that before. I was just wanting to give him some more examples.

I have a forged motor with a lower c/r also. Only I have half the boost you do. Some day here soon I am going to add a Meth kit with my new pulley and take her for a re-tune!!! Then maybe I'll see the 6XX to the wheels...:flex:

BTW Packy, I forgot to ask what is the lift and lsa of your cam? What size is
your pulley and what are going to put on?

Packy

09-12-2006, 07:54 PM

BTW Packy, I forgot to ask what is the lift and lsa of your cam? What size is
your pulley and what are going to put on?

My lift is .541/.541 and LSA is 114. It is a relatively small cam in the LSX world... My current pulley is a 3.7" and my new one is a RR 3.3"!:yup: It will be a few weeks before I put the other one on and get the Meth kit in and hooked up. I get busy with work so I don't have a lot of free time and when I do have free time I like to spend it with my family!

GA Country Boy

09-12-2006, 08:50 PM

My lift is .541/.541 and LSA is 114. It is a relatively small cam in the LSX world... My current pulley is a 3.7" and my new one is a RR 3.3"!:yup: It will be a few weeks before I put the other one on and get the Meth kit in and hooked up. I get busy with work so I don't have a lot of free time and when I do have free time I like to spend it with my family!

The most obvious difference with your cam to the GT1 is the higher lift (LS1-GT1-1 229 / 242 .631" / .631" 114 CL) and the longer duration, but they are BOTH 114 LSA which is extremely important with FI engines. So your cam is obviously a little milder. My current cam is 221/224 .558 on 116 lsa + 4 degrees, pretty close to yours, but with a little more lift and lsa.
ATI recommends:"Lobe separation: 112 to 116 degrees Split pattern: Exhaust duration and lift approximately 10 degrees and .010, respectively, greater than intake. Install cam straight up."
If you haven't switched from 6 to 8 rib yet you may run into belt slippage with a 3.3" pulley. BUT if you can get it to work you might just see around
10 or 11 psi !!! I'm running an 8 rib 3.60" and the D-1SC is pretty well maxed out at 14 psi. I have an F-1R, but it's standard rotation and I would have to convert it to reverse to use it on the Y-body. Good luck!

Packy

09-12-2006, 10:27 PM

The most obvious difference with your cam to the GT1 is the higher lift (LS1-GT1-1 229 / 242 .631" / .631" 114 CL) and the longer duration, but they are BOTH 114 LSA which is extremely important with FI engines. So your cam is obviously a little milder. My current cam is 221/224 .558 on 116 lsa + 4 degrees, pretty close to yours, but with a little more lift and lsa.
ATI recommends:"Lobe separation: 112 to 116 degrees Split pattern: Exhaust duration and lift approximately 10 degrees and .010, respectively, greater than intake. Install cam straight up."
If you haven't switched from 6 to 8 rib yet you may run into belt slippage with a 3.3" pulley. BUT if you can get it to work you might just see around
10 or 11 psi !!! I'm running an 8 rib 3.60" and the D-1SC is pretty well maxed out at 14 psi. I have an F-1R, but it's standard rotation and I would have to convert it to reverse to use it on the Y-body. Good luck!

No, I have a 6 rib set-up. My pulley is from Reichard Racing though. You know their anti-slip style pullies. My goal is just to get a tiny bit more power!:yup:

GA Country Boy

09-13-2006, 08:33 PM

No, I have a 6 rib set-up. My pulley is from Reichard Racing though. You know their anti-slip style pullies. My goal is just to get a tiny bit more power!:yup:

I use their pulleys too (despite paying $160 each) because I believe they are the best although the last one I put on I had to do a little machining to make it line up properly. You SHOULD make a "tiny" bit more power! :yup:

Packy

09-14-2006, 06:06 AM

I use their pulleys too (despite paying $160 each) because I believe they are the best although the last one I put on I had to do a little machining to make it line up properly. You SHOULD make a "tiny" bit more power! :yup:

I picked one up for $50 from someone on another site!:yup:

z28misfit

09-21-2006, 02:17 PM

GA Country Boy

09-21-2006, 03:30 PM

I talked to Lg and they pretty much told me that my g5x4 isn't going to work to good. I figured that, but can I still benefit from the procharger. I mean it still has to work and make me at least another 100hp over what I have now right?I just didn't feel like pulling heads and putting different ones on and only getting about another 45-50hp versus what a blower would add.

Let me say up front that I do not have the specs for your cam, but I am told it is pretty radical with a lot of overlap which isn't the way to get the best out of
your blower since you will lose boost where you need it the most. IMHO if you're going to the considerable expense of a blower you might as well do it right and get the most benefit from it. You can try using your cam, but you know in advance you're not going to produce the results you want, and you can always change the cam later. The cheapest alternative is nitrous. You can add 150 HP
in a heart beat!

z28misfit

09-25-2006, 03:51 PM

I thought of nitrous already but not sure if want to mess with it or not. At least the power of a blower is always there. You don't have to worry about filling a bottle. Also with nitrous you should run colder plugs as with a supercharger. The thing I'm worried about is with nitrous is that by running a colder plug, when I don't use it on the street I'll probably loose a little power with the colder plug. At least with a blower you don't have the option to shut it off.