SS/WS6 vs WRX STI

[Sero_TT]

Hi all, first post. I would like an opinion on a few vehicles from some of the more experienced members. I am considering a new vehicle purchase to replace my truck. I am looking at an 01 or 02 WS6 or SS, or 02 - 05 WRX STI. I want to do a performance build on whichever I do end up buying. Keep in mind this vehicle will have to be driven daily, and thus must have reliable horsepower. If going with either of the 4th gen f-bodies, I will definitely be seeking out APS or GMR for my TT kit. The STI already being turbo does help, as its motor has already been configured to work with a forced induction setup. I have limited funds after the car has been purchased, so this is really a question of what will give me the biggest bang for my buck. Thanks all!

[breakparts]

well Im New To The Forum But Not To Ls1 Cars And Racing Them.id Say Find A Fairly Old Ls1 Camaro Or Ta And Rebuild It With Rods And Pistons. Mild Cam And Stock Everything Else. That Alone Will Yield Almost 400 Rwhp With Bolt Ons. If You Went Forced Induction You Have No Problems With The Sti. Spankin Em Good. My 02 Has Magic Stick Cam And Prc Srings All Bolt Ons And I Have Never Been Beat By One. If Your Talking More Power On Less Fuel Rating Go Ls1. Im Going To Spray 150 Shot On Stock Motor. With Rods And Pistons Better Believe A 200 Or More Will Do The Job.ls1 Motors Have Unbelievable . 400 Rwhp Plus 200 Hp N20 Thats Over 600 Rwtq Easily And Trust Me You Dont Need Spray Unless They Play Like Big Boys

[camaro_five0]

If you're gonna get a TA or Camaro, get an 01-02. These years are the only years with the LS6 intake already in the car. As for building a nice daily-driven race car, I'd DEFINATELY go with an F-body. If you're planning on putting a turbo or S/C in there anyway, you'll be WAY faster in the F-body than you will the WRX, STi or not. If you force-induce these cars, they are stupid fast.

[Sero_TT]

thanks for the help all...everyone has been telling me the same story...the only problem now is to find the car....one last thing though...WS6 or SS? I love the ram air hood on the ws6 but the gauges are reminiscient of the LT1 days...is one faster/quicker than the other?

[Sero_TT]

My buddy has an 02 SS SLP M6 that he is the original owner of that he has to sell. He said he will sell it to me for 16k...hes got like 48k miles, black on black leather, every option except traction control, Centerforce clutch (stage three I believe..it was like 600 bucks) and eibach springs in every corner, as well as nice Z rated tires. Is it worth it?

[camaro_five0]

go for it man. that's a good deal, especially with all those options.

[BrandonDrecksage]

get a z28..it'll be the cheapest. they didn't make a sti in 02-03. have you considered a evo? stock motor is a lot stronger than the sti ej25..and about as strong as a stock ls1...the ls1 and 4g63t will put down similar numbers on stock block.

[wicked illusions]

get an SS! I just beat an WRX stI yesterday at a light. I gave him a 1 car advantage and after taking off he still had the advantage, but when I hit my 2nd gear I started pulling up next to him and once I hit 3rd a wasted him by 2 car lenths.hahaha....mighty mighty SS!!!no get an SS or a WS6 which ever you like more

[camaro_five0]

sure Evo's are fast, but they're expensive as hell for a 4-banger. you can STILL make a Camaro faster.

[Sero_TT]

yeah Im all about the performance mods and I just cant get over the damn TT kits from GMR and APS...insane hp...sorry no loud ass blow off valves for me though...I will admit they are cool at the track but this car will be a daily driver and I dont want it to sound like I am too fast too furious when Im out and about...gotta keep it kinda sleeper u know?

[SpEeDdEmOn86]

I have a 00' camaro and i have a ls6 manifold stock and on top of that i raced a 06' sti and just like he said before, sec gear i was side by side with the sti and than third i just pulled away. no to mention, i have a stock ls1 Z28. sti will kill you on turns cause it did on me but on a straight away. (which alot of races are now and days) camaro is the way to go.

[ttadriver]

The original post doesn't make sense. You want a car for daily driving, but you are looking for modifications like a twin turbo kit, but money is tight after the inital purchase of the car. If you are planning to buy a car and modify it in such a manner, it is best that you have a "beater" to perform your daily duties. Everybody knows that if you plan to modify, expect things to break. It's part of the game. Especially performing modifications such as forced induction. The STI is a better car for daily activities: 4 doors, AWD, ease of driving. The F body has more potential without you having to be a genious in tuning a car. F bodies can be purchased for less money as comparied to STIs currently, thus more money for mods. Definately perform extensive test driving before you buy. Those two cars are completely different in every way, most individuals who purchased one, didn't likely consider the other.


------
2004 Evolution
1997 Viper GTS B/W
1989 Anniv. Turbo Trans Am hardtop

[Sero_TT]

ttadriver, thanks for your input. I understand that things will break after performance mods, but my experience is all in the 4wd area (76 F150 4x4 m4 390, 750cfm Carter) so all my mods like cam/intake manifold choices have been aimed at raising low end performance, and my high end is used mostly to spin tires clean in mud at an attempt to regain traction. My major point that I was looking to confirm is that the money I would save on the initial purchase of the vehicle would allow me to perform more mods. I read in a different post that the guys at GMR can boost lightly on a completely stock LS1...(I believe he said 500-550hp without having to do some engine work) but I am not sure if the stock rear end will handle that kind of power. Then again a factory 10 bolt and a 9 inch are different. I also hear you on the tuning aspect, as my usual tuning is done on a vehicle with no onboard diagnostics, and that was one of my primary concerns as I like doing as much of my own work as possible, and I know very little about imports. I should have been clearer with my question; How much can you hp can you make reliably for daily driving in an ls1, and because I have dreams of forced induction, would it be better to hunt down an SS or to get a Z28?

[BrandonDrecksage]

get a z28....wish i did. could ahve saved 3-4k. have you looked into evos? there 4cyl is a lot better than the sti..adn teh evo and sti go for around the same price. a full exhaust intake and tune on stock turbo can be made very fast...but you would need to replace the clutch. www.buschurracing.com for some more info on evos. stock turbo can reach mid 11s. a full exhaust, clutch and tuning could get you very deep into the 12s on street tires.

[Hurley711]

The original post doesn't make sense. You want a car for daily driving, but you are looking for modifications like a twin turbo kit, but money is tight after the inital purchase of the car. If you are planning to buy a car and modify it in such a manner, it is best that you have a "beater" to perform your daily duties. Everybody knows that if you plan to modify, expect things to break. It's part of the game. Especially performing modifications such as forced induction. The STI is a better car for daily activities: 4 doors, AWD, ease of driving. The F body has more potential without you having to be a genious in tuning a car. F bodies can be purchased for less money as comparied to STIs currently, thus more money for mods. Definately perform extensive test driving before you buy. Those two cars are completely different in every way, most individuals who purchased one, didn't likely consider the other.


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2004 Evolution
1997 Viper GTS B/W
1989 Anniv. Turbo Trans Am hardtop



Soooooooo. 04 Evo.......97 Viper......89 TA...................which one is "The beater":lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Sero_TT]

I would be guessing his evo is his run around car for daily stuff...but dayam man how does that Viper run? I've only sat in one at a performance car dealership.

Also, a few people have told me if I have the money for the STI or Evo, I should just a get a GTO or wait for the new Camaro to come out, or get the Challenger b/c its what the Charger should have been...any thoughts on this?

[BrandonDrecksage]

I would be guessing his evo is his run around car for daily stuff...but dayam man how does that Viper run? I've only sat in one at a performance car dealership.

Also, a few people have told me if I have the money for the STI or Evo, I should just a get a GTO or wait for the new Camaro to come out, or get the Challenger b/c its what the Charger should have been...any thoughts on this?

get what you want..drive all of them..or atleast the avalible ones...have you checked insurance..ect on all of the cars? and if your gonna wait for the challenger or camaro..you got a loooong wait.

[SeVeReDiStOrTiOn]

I have a 00' camaro and i have a ls6 manifold stock
No you don't....take a pic of your engine bay and post it. Tell me what makes you think you have a ls6 manifold? If you do have one then either a previous owner swapped it or you don't know the year of your own car.

If you're gonna get a TA or Camaro, get an 01-02. These years are the only years with the LS6 intake already in the car.

I wouldn't pass on 98-00 that's a good deal just because it doesn't have a ls6 manifold. It's a simple swap and if you don't need the egr in your state you can get'em on ebay for a good price

[Sero_TT]

severedistortion, I am actually in Sacramento, so yeah I would need the EGR stuff, so does that mean I would be better off going for the 01 or 02 SS?

[Sero_TT]

brandon, I have checked with my insurance agent about quotes and they are all in the same area dollar wise for coverage...LS1 just b/c...well you know what your cars will do, even stock, and the STI was just as much b/c it is more costly to replace and is a lot faster off the showroom floor than a usual ricer. The Challenger is SUPPOSED to come out next year, but I wont bet on it. I am looking to purchase around fall next year, as cash comes slow while in college. Thanks everyone for your input.

[Sero_TT]

What about the GTO? I have heard good and bad on them and I want some opinions on the 6.0 liter version in specific.

[Wesman]

I would never take an Evo or STI over an SS or WS6. No comparison in terms of looks, performance, sound, style, ect. The Evo and STI are suped up economy cars - and they look the part. Overdone body kits, massive wings, totally overstyled in every possible way. They are pretty much factory rice.

Not to mention they lack anything resembling low end power (4 banger + turbo lag) and sound like a broken duck call. They also have more than their fair share of reliability problems and expensive maintenance.

I think you would be much happier in the long run with a GTO or LS1 F-Body.

[ttadriver]

[QUOTE=Sero_TT]I would be guessing his evo is his run around car for daily stuff...but dayam man how does that Viper run? I've only sat in one at a performance car dealership.

Yeah, the Evo is what I drive daily to work, along with a Xterra that my fiancee drives. I had to restrain myself from performing any major modifications because I do not want to lose any reliability
The Viper runs well, I plan to keep that stock. I try to drive it several miles per week. It's at 17K currently


---
2004 Evolution
1997 Viper GTS B/W
1989 Anniv. Turbo Trans Am hardtop

[ttadriver]

I would never take an Evo or STI over an SS or WS6. No comparison in terms of looks, performance, sound, style, ect. The Evo and STI are suped up economy cars - and they look the part. Overdone body kits, massive wings, totally overstyled in every possible way. They are pretty much factory rice.

Not to mention they lack anything resembling low end power (4 banger + turbo lag) and sound like a broken duck call. They also have more than their fair share of reliability problems and expensive maintenance.

I think you would be much happier in the long run with a GTO or LS1 F-Body.

I've made this observation in the past.
The Evos and STis do have alot of "business" going on concerning their styling. At least every part of their styling has a function, and yes the tall spoilers actually work. There is a difference between "functionality" and "rice". Rice is the add on hood scoop from Pep boys or Ford (ie 99-2004 mustangs) that sticks on the hood and does nothing for cooling or performance.
Evos and STis are not the prettiest cars on the planet, but they do work well at what they are designed to do.


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2004 Evolution
1997 Viper GTS B/W
1989 Anniv. Turbo Trans Am hardtop

[ErikElvis]

I think the Evos and STIs are nice cars but I did the 4cyl thing for a while and just had to have a V8. I like knowin that hunk of metal is under there.

[SeVeReDiStOrTiOn]

severedistortion, I am actually in Sacramento, so yeah I would need the EGR stuff, so does that mean I would be better off going for the 01 or 02 SS?
SLP sells a ls6 manifold that is tapped for the egr and comes with the coolant tube and plugs needed....problem is it's like 400 bones. At least it was when I bought one awhile back

[SeVeReDiStOrTiOn]

What about the GTO? I have heard good and bad on them and I want some opinions on the 6.0 liter version in specific.
Some people don't like the way they look..but the 05-06's don't look that bad IMO. Their build quality is really good and it has a independant rear so you'll get a smoother ride then a f-body....but you'll have more wheel hop and a little more power loss. If you have the money for a new gto I'd just save longer and get a C6:yup:

[breakparts]

dude Forget All This Bs Get A Ceap Ass Iroc Year Camaro And Stick An Ls1 With Ls6 Heads And A Big Cam, Dude People Wont Know What Hit Em. And Youd Probably Spent Around 6000 Dollars But Buy A Used Motor. Dude Wheres My Car ( Its The All Black One In Theshadows That Police Can Hear But Cant See Too Good)

[Sero_TT]

I was actually considering something like that breakparts but I was thinking more along the lines of a 93-97. What do you think?

[Sero_TT]

one more thing....A4 or M6 b/c although I love rowing through the gears, some have said that with some light mods the A4 can be quicker and consistent? Any thoughts on this from anyone?

[camarolvr69]

the trans is all about preference. Some things to consider:
the amount of driving you do per day
traffic
drag strip (auto) or street racing (manual)
do you like shifting

the cool thing about an automatic is you get very good consistency and if you get a stall you can be as fast or faster than a good driver in a m6.

if you are a really good driver and you like to slam gears then the m6 is the way to go. :Ohno:

[BrandonDrecksage]

m6 all the way...I drive mine on my commute 3 times a week. its 75 miles one way ranging from bumper to bumper..to open highway. its not a hard manual to drive and nothing is like going wot through the first 3 gears..or dropping it down to 2nd aroun d 50-55.

[Wesman]

m6 all the way...I drive mine on my commute 3 times a week. its 75 miles one way ranging from bumper to bumper..to open highway. its not a hard manual to drive and nothing is like going wot through the first 3 gears..or dropping it down to 2nd aroun d 50-55.

Agreed, manual is the only way to go in a street driven car ;)

[garrettjj]

I would never take an Evo or STI over an SS or WS6. No comparison in terms of looks, performance, sound, style, ect. The Evo and STI are suped up economy cars - and they look the part. Overdone body kits, massive wings, totally overstyled in every possible way. They are pretty much factory rice.

Not to mention they lack anything resembling low end power (4 banger + turbo lag) and sound like a broken duck call. They also have more than their fair share of reliability problems and expensive maintenance.

I think you would be much happier in the long run with a GTO or LS1 F-Body.

The performance of an EVO/STI is VERY close and in some ways better than an SS or WS6. EVERY part on the STI is functional from the wing that produces downforce at high speeds, to the large scoop that feeds the top mount intercooler, to the front fascia kit that creates .33 c/d, to the rear diffuser and underbody, to the intercooler water spray. The STI builds boost at 1800rpm and hits full torque at 4K. The lag is almost nonexistant and throttle response is crisp. Reliability and maintenance costs are NOT an issue with a Subaru.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v123/garrettjj/Stage%202/impreza-sti-download-wall2-1280.jpg

[Wesman]

The performance of an EVO/STI is VERY close and in some ways better than an SS or WS6. EVERY part on the STI is functional from the wing that produces downforce at high speeds, to the large scoop that feeds the top mount intercooler, to the front fascia kit that creates .33 c/d, to the rear diffuser and underbody, to the intercooler water spray. The STI builds boost at 1800rpm and hits full torque at 4K. The lag is almost nonexistant and throttle response is crisp. Reliability and maintenance costs are NOT an issue with a Subaru.

Congrats, you;ve just been offered a job with the advertising department at Subaru :lol:

First of all, the performance of an Evo/STI vs. a WS6/SS isn't even close from anything other than a dig. Trap speeds in the 1/4 mile are about 5-7MPH higher for the LS1 than the Evo/STI, which indicates that the Evo/STI are only pulling low 13's due to the AWD launch. They don't have shit from a roll, whatsoever. I've seen stock Cobalt SS S/C's hang with Evo's from highway rolls.

Thats all well and good that all the "styling features" of the STI are functional, but that doesn't make it any less ugly. Nor is anyone actually going to put those little pointly triangles on the back of the roof to use on the street. Its just totally impractical for anything but professional racing, where they need every last advantage they can get.

What difference does it make of the STI begins to build boost at 1800RPM?? That means there's turbo lag, since the turbo is still spooling up. The car doesn't actually start to move until its into full boost. If I punch my LS1 at 1800RPM it takes off, no lag, no bog, no 4 banger turbo lagging bullshit :thumbdn:

You say reliability and maintenance costs are not an issue?? How about the factory tires, that wear out at 10K miles and cost over $1000 to replace?? How about the turbo, which rarely lasts beyond 100K miles under performance driving?? How about all of the wear-and-tear parts of the engine, such as the alternator, waterpump, starter, ect what will cost big $$ as well as hours of labor to replace when they go bad?? You need to consider long term maintenance and reliability, not just how it runs now.

[ZAPFOOL!!]

stay in a truck and get blown...hint hint....and insurance is dirt cheap...just my 2 cents

[camarolvr69]

only problem with a truck is the fuel economy because its heavy. the lightning gets like 14 mpg stock. :thumbdn:

[ZAPFOOL!!]

only problem with a truck is the fuel economy because its heavy. the lightning gets like 14 mpg stock. :thumbdn:



cant agrue that:dunno:

[garrettjj]

Congrats, you;ve just been offered a job with the advertising department at Subaru :lol:

First of all, the performance of an Evo/STI vs. a WS6/SS isn't even close from anything other than a dig. Trap speeds in the 1/4 mile are about 5-7MPH higher for the LS1 than the Evo/STI, which indicates that the Evo/STI are only pulling low 13's due to the AWD launch. They don't have shit from a roll, whatsoever. I've seen stock Cobalt SS S/C's hang with Evo's from highway rolls.

Thats all well and good that all the "styling features" of the STI are functional, but that doesn't make it any less ugly. Nor is anyone actually going to put those little pointly triangles on the back of the roof to use on the street. Its just totally impractical for anything but professional racing, where they need every last advantage they can get.

What difference does it make of the STI begins to build boost at 1800RPM?? That means there's turbo lag, since the turbo is still spooling up. The car doesn't actually start to move until its into full boost. If I punch my LS1 at 1800RPM it takes off, no lag, no bog, no 4 banger turbo lagging bullshit :thumbdn:

You say reliability and maintenance costs are not an issue?? How about the factory tires, that wear out at 10K miles and cost over $1000 to replace?? How about the turbo, which rarely lasts beyond 100K miles under performance driving?? How about all of the wear-and-tear parts of the engine, such as the alternator, waterpump, starter, ect what will cost big $$ as well as hours of labor to replace when they go bad?? You need to consider long term maintenance and reliability, not just how it runs now.

Yup, the traps are about 4-5mph higher, the trade off is great off the line performance which I use much more than high speed roll-ons. STIs can hit 0-60 in 4.5 secs stock on stock tires. Overall perfomance is more about going in a straight line though. Don't discount the braking, handling, gripping, turning capabilities of the STI or EVO. The STI is a very solid and fun car as well as a very good track car and the EVO a little more so. Compare the testing specs from the articles below and you'll see what I mean.

From your post, I doubt you have driven one. Unlike the EVO, the STI has much better low end torque due to it's larger 2.5 4-cyl. The turbo is also smaller which decreases spool time. By 1800 the turbo is boosting strong(but obviously not at full boost) and there is barely any lag, it's very seamless. When you punch it the car surges forward and you certainly don't have to be at "Full boost" for the car to start moving, that's just ridiculous.

Every reliability and maintenance thing you metioned is the same for any car, especially performance cars. We all have to pay for those things. Subaru is rated very high in reliability/safety. I have over 25K on my original tires and while I need some soon, they lasted a long time under hard driving. If my turbo lasts until 100K, I'll be happy. They are dirt cheap. Hell many people swap in new turbos when the car is only a few years old.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_9912_2000_pontiac_firebird_trans_am_ws6/index.html

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0512_rally_cars/specs_price.html

[Wesman]

Yup, the traps are about 4-5mph higher, the trade off is great off the line performance which I use much more than high speed roll-ons. STIs can hit 0-60 in 4.5 secs stock on stock tires. Overall perfomance is more about going in a straight line though. Don't discount the braking, handling, gripping, turning capabilities of the STI or EVO. The STI is a very solid and fun car as well as a very good track car and the EVO a little more so. Compare the testing specs from the articles below and you'll see what I mean.

Off the line performance is just that, "off the line", nothing more. So it pulls hard for the first 1.5 seconds, and then its no faster than any other 240WHP car, which isn't anything close to being as fast as the numbers would lead you to believe.

Decent links, but I found one that I think better represents the Evo/STI, being that its more thourough.

Evo/STI Specs (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/9043/bad-boy-sedans-page4.html)

Going by that, the differences become extremely apparent between a car like the Trans Am WS6 and the Evo/STI. The 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are close, but thats where the similarities end. The Evo and STI are 5MPH slower in the 1/4 mile (which is a huge amount), and in 5-60MPH tests, they are a whole 1.5 seconds slower - once again, a huge difference. They F-Body also blows both of them away in 30-50MPH and 50-70MPH passing acceleration, especially in top gear.

The STI pulled .92g's on the skidpad. A WS6/SS LS1 F-Body can pull .88g's. Not exactly a huge difference by any means. And the stock F-Body tires last a hell of a lot longer than 10K miles, meaning they aren't all-out performance tires like the Evo and STi have. With top notch tires, a WS6/SS could probably pull a .90g on the skidpad.

The main handling advantage of the Evo/STI over the F-Body is that those cars are easy to drive fast. You need to know what you are doing to push an F-Body through the curves, whereas the Evo and STI are amazingly easy, even for unskilled drivers. That gives the fake perception of awesome handling, when the reality is that the car is just extremely easy and confidence inspiring to drive through turns.

From your post, I doubt you have driven one. Unlike the EVO, the STI has much better low end torque due to it's larger 2.5 4-cyl.

"Better low end torque" is all relative. I have driven one, and it's still gutless compared to an LS1, or just about any other V8.

[BrandonDrecksage]

Off the line performance is just that, "off the line", nothing more. So it pulls hard for the first 1.5 seconds, and then its no faster than any other 240WHP car, which isn't anything close to being as fast as the numbers would lead you to believe.

Decent links, but I found one that I think better represents the Evo/STI, being that its more thourough.

Evo/STI Specs (http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/9043/bad-boy-sedans-page4.html)

Going by that, the differences become extremely apparent between a car like the Trans Am WS6 and the Evo/STI. The 0-60 and 1/4 mile times are close, but thats where the similarities end. The Evo and STI are 5MPH slower in the 1/4 mile (which is a huge amount), and in 5-60MPH tests, they are a whole 1.5 seconds slower - once again, a huge difference. They F-Body also blows both of them away in 30-50MPH and 50-70MPH passing acceleration, especially in top gear.

The STI pulled .92g's on the skidpad. A WS6/SS LS1 F-Body can pull .88g's. Not exactly a huge difference by any means. And the stock F-Body tires last a hell of a lot longer than 10K miles, meaning they aren't all-out performance tires like the Evo and STi have. With top notch tires, a WS6/SS could probably pull a .90g on the skidpad.

The main handling advantage of the Evo/STI over the F-Body is that those cars are easy to drive fast. You need to know what you are doing to push an F-Body through the curves, whereas the Evo and STI are amazingly easy, even for unskilled drivers. That gives the fake perception of awesome handling, when the reality is that the car is just extremely easy and confidence inspiring to drive through turns.



"Better low end torque" is all relative. I have driven one, and it's still gutless compared to an LS1, or just about any other V8.

not all fbodies trap 108 stock....but on the flipside.. almost all evos and stis trap between 102-104.

[garrettjj]

That was a decent car and driver comparison, but those figures were a little on the low side for what's been posted throughout the years. The 5-60 was about the lowest I've ever seen. It's usually 5.6-5.8. I won't bother posting articles, we can do that all day long. I do agree though, that on the average almost all evos and stis trap @ 102-104. I post and read a lot on the forums and that's accurate.

I don't discount that an LS1 V-8 has better low end torque compared to a 2.5 turbo-4. My point was that for a turbo-4 motor the STI has good low end torque and the boost comes on relatively low in the rpm band. With SIMPLE mods and not even tuned(Turbo back exhaust and basic off the shelf map reflash) you can get around 385 ft-lbs @ 3400rpm. http://cobbtuning.com/sti/images/ap-sti-stage2.gif
Those numbers will always increase once tuned on a dyno. It's the torque output on the STI rather than HP that is easier to coax out.

That's awesome low end performance from a car that has less than twice the displacement and 4 less cylinders than a V8. Nice debating with ya, enjoy your car!

[breakparts]

ill stick with my pushrods and six bolt mains thank you,lancer shmancer ill kick you in the seat of the pancer,then ill do a dancer,but only i knew you had no chancer.mabey if you were twin turbo then your blow off valve would be even louder when i pass you (oh shi^ did i just rev to 6800 )powershifting-good lordie i think i did:lol:

[SSNAKEATER23]

forget all the gibber jabber and just get an F BODY!!!!!! you wont be sorry

wrx:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :help: :help: :help: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[JD_Z28]

Why not look into an 03-04 Cobra. Easy car to make 500 whp

[breakparts]

IM A CHEVY MAN BITCH!!!!SORRY THAT MUST HAVE BEEN MY TERRETS:dunno: ID RATHER JUICE ANY DAY

[ls1kid18]

i love ls1s....but keep in mind they ARE a dimeadozen how many true STIS do u see daily???

[BrandonDrecksage]

i love ls1s....but keep in mind they ARE a dimeadozen how many true STIS do u see daily???

on average? 5 or 6 probably..they're a lot around here...evos too. yet i rarely ever see a ls1.

[breakparts]

matters where u live.im in the bay area CALIFORNIA. holy jeeze is this rice rocket central.but id say99% of the street ricers are S-L-O-W.AND STI I PROBLY SEE LIKE 1 A DAY BUT EVOS ARE FRIGGIN EVERYWHERE.i rarely see a beefy ls1 f-body to turn my head.i mostly see sixers. and worst off i see dudes thinking there HARD ASS HELL IN A SIXER CAMARO.:thumbdn:

[Sero_TT]

breakparts, I hear you big time on the guys in sixers trying to act hard. I am form Sacramento and we've got our fair helping of rice (pork and shrimp fried lol).. very few actual STI's (lots of fake scoops) and for the love of God get rid of those gold rims! Every time I see them, I think of a 60's Impala with the damn chrome mudflaps all kicked out with massive wheel spacers (ugh!). I've looked at EVO's, but dayam thats pricey, and how durable is that transaxle setup? If I had an LS1 I would have to do some outrageous mods just to separate myself from the endless masses of people with regular Z28's with filter and exhaust...not that thats bad in ANY way, I just want to spank some fool in a C5 and snap a picture of his face as he watches his super car get demolished, but I guess a steady diet of mustangs and civics would keep me happy for a while :zoom:

[cruz3]

Ironically, the WRX was my wife's car, but purchased with a lot of insistence on my behalf. We had it since new up to about 36k miles. There were NO maintenance issues on our car and all I ever did to it was clean it, feed it super unleaded, and synthetic oil. The tires were toast at that point, but there is this one on-ramp to the mall... That car was probably the best bang for the buck car ever. The WRX has wicked turbo lag and is extremely easy to drive. I think the WRX/STI cars are designed that way so the 2Fast2Furious crowd don't crash more often. 4 doors and an ample trunk are big conveniences in a daily driver. We looked at replacing it with an S4, but at $52K I was a little underwhelmed. Never bothered driving an STI. We got a new Pathfinder instead, because she 'wanted a truck'. Or at least, a truck-substitute. She could have driven my 02 8.1L K2500HD if she wanted a truck...

I got my Z28 a month ago. It handles well enough, the mileage is comparable to the WRX, it launches much harder and I think the roll-on acceleration is simply amazing. It has the marks of a mid-80s GM car where its roots lie. Some cheap parts, some good parts, but the overall build is good, but not as good as my 8.1L. The trunk area is big, but awkward to use. The front occupant area is more comfortable than the WRX, but the back seat sucks. At the level of modification I plan to do, I think the car will last a very, very long time simply because the engine and other parts aren't working that hard most of the time.

I think both choices are sound, but you need to focus on what is important. If you actually haul a few people around and deal with inclement weather (fear the lag on ice!), then the WRX is a better choice. If you love real muscle car sounds and the stronger acceleration of the V8, then get the camaro. After looking into the topics a lot, short of nitrous, you can make some real progress with an LS1 for a modest investment and still avoid a "stressed" car. A lot of used WRX/STI cars have thrashed clutches/2nd gears - when we dropped ours, that was the first thing they checked - and I heard the story enough that I would check it out. The LS1 car's shortcomings are well documented here.

Personally, I could have bought more or less anything I wanted, although a Viper would have been pushing into divorce territory... I wanted a muscle car that had all the modern conveniences, a back seat, and would rumble ominously in my driveway (hate that Shucks ricer exhaust sound I seem to hear on every clapped-out Civic that goes by). The ls1 f-bodies fit that bill perfectly. Pick what works for you based on an honest appreciation of your wants and needs - that's what matters most. Both are good choices for the right people.

[garrettjj]

Coparing a regular 2003 WRX to an STI is like comparing a V-6 Camaro to a V-8. They are very different cars. Stock, an LS1 would handily romp a 2003 WRX.

A 2003 WRX has 70+ less horsepower, .5 liters less displacmement, taller gearing, 5-speed, no adjustable differential and less performance upgrades(Less boost on smaller turbo, Tires, clutch, brakes, transmission, etc). It takes a regular 03 WRX to be at least Stage 2.5 to be able to compete with a stock STI.

[Mike WS6]

the STi will pwn the f bodies in the corners, no joke

solid rear = STRAIGHT LINE ONLY! its hard for me to keep up w/ my friends FC RX-7 on the turns.

[Wesman]

the STi will pwn the f bodies in the corners, no joke

solid rear = STRAIGHT LINE ONLY! its hard for me to keep up w/ my friends FC RX-7 on the turns.

Umm..no. Way to generalize a whole vehicle just because it has a SRA :rolleyes:

My WS6 T/A handles pretty damn well actually. Its got the WS6 sway bars, Bilstein shocks, 17" rims, and Goodyear Eagle F1 tires. Its the best handling car I've ever driven, bar none.

Theres a common misperception between "handling performance" and "easy to drive". The F-Body is not a bad handling car, it just takes some skill to handle it in the corners. If you don't know how to drive it properly, it can get away from you really quick. Cars like the STi and Evo are very easy and predictable to drive in the turns, giving the perception of awesome handling, although they really don't handle much (if at all) better than a properly set up WS6/SS.

I'm sick of hearing people say "F-bodies can't handle", thats ricer talk :rolleyes:

[Mike WS6]

I hope your joking, a solid rear will never perform as well as IRS.

[Wesman]

I hope your joking, a solid rear will never perform as well as IRS.

It may not have the handling potential of an IRS system, but it sure as hell can handle just as well as many IRS equipped vehicles when properly set up.

[Mike WS6]

It may not have the handling potential of an IRS system, but it sure as hell can handle just as well as many IRS equipped vehicles when properly set up.

A modified suspension WS6/SS might handle better than a stock STi/Lan Evo.

[breakparts]

the f body could beat em up if he had a good driver not scared of a little squerreliness and tire spin and had good correctional skills with an m-6.

[ibanez7]

first and foremost, its up to you and what you like.
secondly, what type of weather will this car see.

If you live in an area that gets a good amount a snow, any and all modded cars are useless but some are worse and some are slightly better then others.

f-bods suck in the snow, and worse in deap snow, so an all wheel drive modded car will outperform as a daily driver!

[Mike WS6]

the f body could beat em up if he had a good driver not scared of a little squerreliness and tire spin and had good correctional skills with an m-6.

And if the Evo/STi driver sucked. I hate to admit it too but its true. The Fbodies cant compare to most of the imports in the corners.

[breakparts]

i just fucked up an srt 4 .he tried to dip the shoulder and i just caught a hole in the slow lane smoked his neon in the shit i hate to do.

[breakparts]

ok ..you said most imports,,like a awd import and are you talking faster times in a road coarse or are we talking not breaking a sweat while in the shit cuz ill admit its not easy at all to take turns on a dig in the f-bod..the suspension does not just go where you point it like an evo..but ill still spank a mildly modded evo in the twisties....IF I DONT HIT THE TWISTIES MABEY ITS CUZ IM EXTRA STRAIT...

[Mike WS6]

ok ..you said most imports,,like a awd import and are you talking faster times in a road coarse or are we talking not breaking a sweat while in the shit cuz ill admit its not easy at all to take turns on a dig in the f-bod..the suspension does not just go where you point it like an evo..but ill still spank a mildly modded evo in the twisties....IF I DONT HIT THE TWISTIES MABEY ITS CUZ IM EXTRA STRAIT...

Im talkin bout most imports can handle better than our cars all around. im hopin the 5th gen can have irs finally.

[ibanez7]

Im talkin bout most imports can handle better than our cars all around. im hopin the 5th gen can have irs finally.



most AWD imports handle better do to IRS, which is why the new z06 c6 is untouchable on the circuit tracks, its a well balanced car and the IRS really helps. Down side is IRS is not as strong or reliable as a live/straight axle like what the f-bods have (granted a 12 bolt or 9inch is better then the factory candyass 10bolt)

f-bods can be mad to handle great on circuit tracks. 4th gen f-bods and mustangs where used in the trans am racing circuit (not the trans am car either) all the time. Those cars would run circles around an AWD import.

[Mike WS6]

most AWD imports handle better do to IRS, which is why the new z06 c6 is untouchable on the circuit tracks, its a well balanced car and the IRS really helps. Down side is IRS is not as strong or reliable as a live/straight axle like what the f-bods have (granted a 12 bolt or 9inch is better then the factory candyass 10bolt)

f-bods can be mad to handle great on circuit tracks. 4th gen f-bods and mustangs where used in the trans am racing circuit (not the trans am car either) all the time. Those cars would run circles around an AWD import.

most imports handle better cuz of irs, not all imports have awd and still handle better than the fbods. theres to many to name.

yes the c6 z06 is in a league of its own compared to imports "stock" but for how long. i hope the new GTR doesnt match it. a suped up FD can match a stock c6 z no prob.

[Wesman]

Im talkin bout most imports can handle better than our cars all around. im hopin the 5th gen can have irs finally.

I don't know why people love IRs so much, it really isn't all its cracked up to be. Sure it has more handling potential than an SRA system, but how many people really push their muscle cars that hard in the turns?? Basically it just adds unnecessary weight, cost, complexity, and serious wheel hop issues.

Solid rear axles are great for muscle cars because they can be made nearly indestructable. With the right setup, you can easily build a bulletproof rear end that can stand up to any amount of abuse. Hence the reason they are ideal for muscle cars.

I think the new Camaro should have a solid axle standard on all models except for the SS, which could have the IRS. That way it would keep all the drag racers happy, and the people looking for the best handling could buy the SS.

[Hot Black Trans-Am]

IRS should be an option. I think it should have been on the GTO also. I prefer IRS, but I like to corner hard and if I want faster track times it just means I need more top end power! Being a true muscle car SRA should be the standard. If you want a sports car that handles good then get the Vette and not a F-bod.

Anyway I say take both for a really nice long drive before deciding to see which one your most comfortable in and have more fun in.

[GottaHaveLS1]

i love ls1s....but keep in mind they ARE a dimeadozen how many true STIS do u see daily???

I see STI's much more often than an LS1 F body.

[breakparts]

personally i feel irs holds back the hp potential to grap the pavement...and irs does not handle the way i like to drive and i would break it...almost all the 03 04 cobras my buds have have no irs anymore cuz its shit ,but if your panties are chafing cuz you cant handle the horsepower then you shouldnt have an f-body..you should drive a civic so you can feel fast without the reality..and dudes if you think that a souped up import will match a new 427 ls7 in a c6 youve bumped your head and are in the movie 2 fast tokyo..cam and headers its got over 600 hp naturally aspirated...no import can even look it in the eyes without losing its coffee can tailpipe...dont even get me started on if it was running any kind of boost....MIKE WS6 WHATS AN FD CUZ YOUR SPEAKIN ON THIS IMPORT LIKE IT WAS GOD...AND IF ITS BETTER THAN THE ZO6 C6 THEN IT IS GOD.....BUT YOU IMPORT LOVERs SEEM TO ALWAYS HAVE SOME SHIT TO COMPARE WITH A WHAT IF...what if can be on both sides...FUCK IMPORTS AND FUCK IRS..AND THATS THE BOTTOM LINE CUZ STONE COLD SAID SO..SUPRAS ARE THE BEST IMPORTS IVE SEEN..

[breakparts]

OH AND FUCK A GTR IN THE GOATASS!!!!!!!!!!!!:nana: :nana: :nana: :nana: :butt: :butt:

[Mike WS6]

if irs holds back the hp y do the vettes have em?
an fd is a 3rd gen rx-7. the next gen RX7, Supra and GTR might be something to worry about.

[breakparts]

cuz vettes are more luxurious...my buddy has the same mods as me in an 01 c5 and my dyno #'s were +10 on him rw#'s..i beleive all that power management takes raw power away as does a transmission...even though hes lighter and has an automatic..i still pull on him by 2 cars in 2nd gear

[Mike WS6]

Vettea arent luxurious. their sports cars. if he has an auto than its obvious his dyno #s would be lower if u have a manual.

[breakparts]

not luxury like a caddy but the best the vett can do and still be a sports car.and once again irs sucks ass if your a drag racer and sra sucks if your a road racer but sra dosent suck as much as irs..to me irs is too mellow and i can deal with my sra and gurantee you i can fuck up majority of these irs cars even though there made for it

[DreamLS1]

Well i have both a TA and a 04 Sti i would take the STI over the Fbody anyday! that car is increadable! Nothing drives anywhere close! My buddy has a 02 ta with 400whp +slicks and ran 12.2, in my sti i have full 3" exhaust and i ran 12.7. I love both cars but the sti is just so awesome! test drive one you will fall in love!:nana:

[tonyjnjz]

skip the build up for now and go out and get a nice low milage 02 z06 for 30k ......build from there and youll have somthing siiiiiick fast

[breakparts]

Why Should I Test Drive A Car I Can Smoke...no Point....now A Ported Blower,or A Kb 04 Cobra Id Test Drive...dude Im Sorry But Id Never Buy An Sti..and Wow Thats Fast For Just A 3 Inch Exhaust...where Did You Buy The Exhaust, At Too Fast Too Furious R- Us.....if Thats All It Takes Then Why Doo All The Sti's I Run Suck Ass.......

[Wesman]

Well i have both a TA and a 04 Sti i would take the STI over the Fbody anyday! that car is increadable! Nothing drives anywhere close! My buddy has a 02 ta with 400whp +slicks and ran 12.2, in my sti i have full 3" exhaust and i ran 12.7. I love both cars but the sti is just so awesome! test drive one you will fall in love!:nana:

Please...its not a damn Ferarri, its Subaru Impreza family sedan with a turbocharged engine. Sure it handles well and is pretty quick - but it looks like ass, sounds like ass, and really isn't all that fast for the money.

You say you ran a 12.7 with a full exhaust - what was your trap speed on that?? 102MPH?? :rolleyes:

The only reason they can run the 1/4 so quick is because they are AWD - the car isn't nearly as fast as the numbers make it out to be. You're looking at a good 6MPH trap difference between a stock STI and a stock LS1 - even though they may both run the same exact time. The LS1 is running that fast because it has the power to run that fast, the STI runs that time because of the AWD launch.

I would never take an STI over an F-Body, or a Mustang Cobra for that matter. Both will ruin the STi in a straight line, and are a much better value for the money, especially when it comes to mods. There's just no comparison in terms of looks, sound, or raw performance - the STI is nothing more than high performance riceburner. The kind of car every Civic hatch driver and his brother dreams of upgrading too. Not my style at all.

[ErikElvis]

I was ate up by a legacy 2.5 GT at the track. Ran a 13.2. very embarassing. I thought I had that one in the bag.....

[DreamLS1]

Thats cool guy thats your opinion, I think the sti sounds sweet, its a one of a kind sound, all v8 sound the same. I like to be different. I am not puting down fbodys because i love them and have one myself, but stock to stock it will out perform most cars on the street. and having awd or not is the name of the game, i ran an 02 ss from a 15 roll and he didn pull on me till top of 4th. ya i ran a 12.7@107 anyone want to see the time slip i will gladley put it on here.

[Wesman]

Thats cool guy thats your opinion, I think the sti sounds sweet, its a one of a kind sound, all v8 sound the same. I like to be different. I am not puting down fbodys because i love them and have one myself, but stock to stock it will out perform most cars on the street. and having awd or not is the name of the game, i ran an 02 ss from a 15 roll and he didn pull on me till top of 4th. ya i ran a 12.7@107 anyone want to see the time slip i will gladley put it on here.

All V8's sound the same?? Obviously you've never heard a Ford V8 next to a Chevy V8, because thats far from the truth.

The only thing unique about the STI's exhaust is that its one of the only cars (besides the Evo) that you can pay $32K for and still have it sound like complete garbage. Not something to be proud of.

There's also no way you hung with an LS1 from a 15 roll, unless you're pushing over 60WHP in mods, which is unlikely. LS1's kill even highly modded STi's from a roll, they don't have shit unless you launch the hell out of them.

[tonyjnjz]

maybe he raced a stock ls1, auto, 273's ...i could see that being possible...saw a video of a race....slightly modded ls1 transam vs a slightly modded evo......evo hung with him from a roll to about a 100.....then it was all over in a hurry......there quick!!

[Wesman]

maybe he raced a stock ls1, auto, 273's ...i could see that being possible...saw a video of a race....slightly modded ls1 transam vs a slightly modded evo......evo hung with him from a roll to about a 100.....then it was all over in a hurry......there quick!!

Very possible, I could see that happening with auto/2.73's. However, any roll race against an M6 LS1 is an instant death for just about any STI.

[tonyjnjz]

any stock/near stock sti i agree.......they CAN be monsters with lots of money/mods.....theres a lot of them out there.....check out vishnutuning.com very reputible evo/sti performace shop out in cali.....those cars CAN be very fast for not all that much money.....ive heard lots about reliability probs though........ive thought many times about buying an evo living in roch ny....we get a 100 plus inches of snow a yr........eh i went with the summer/winter car combo instead.......no replacement for displacement in my mind