Met up with an SRT-4...

[wzup1000]

Got a phone call from a friend that had an srt-4

First off my car is all stock except for a lid and a cutout, His srt had a mopar stage 1 kit, with exhaust and piping, also looked like a new intercooler,but he didnt say anything about it.

We ran three time and started off at a 40 mph roll and he continued to beat me by half a car until about 110-120 where he would gain an extra half a car.

WTF? Am I just that bad of a driver, is his car supposed to do that, or is he not telling me about all his mods.

I cant believe I lost to a FOUR cylinder!!!:(

[wzup1000]

Forgot to mention he had a blowoff valve.... i dont know if that makes a difference

[LS1Power06]

well im not sure exactly how much the Stage 1 gives the SRT-4 cuz im too lazy to go look but i know its gonna help the car out quiet a bit. he might have other things but for a 4 cylinder those cars move. and by piping do you mean downpipe, because downpipes make quiet a bit of a power gain for such a little 2 ft pipe. i dont know tho, try racing him from 70 and see what happens.

Ryan

[crazyikon86]

and if ur an auto 40 roll is shit

[wzup1000]

i dont know what he meant by piping, but im ignorant when it comes to turbos and superchargers. anyway he was still had half a car at 70 and I dont think I was gaining,but i know i was holding.

would it have been because i was running 87 (i know someone is gonna grill me for this), I mean how much power loss am I suffering from on 87???

What can I do (reasonably, remember I got a "virgin tight" budget) to beat the sob next time?

btw...i got an M6

[ls14pwr]

Well 91 octain or higher will give ya bout 5-8 hp if i remember correctly. Not too much but for an extra 3.00 every fill up its pretty good hp vs dollars. If ya want to beat him next time i would say do the FRA mod it should help a little on the higher end especially if u are racin passed 100mph. It wont be alot but every bit helps, especially on a budget. I think that the cheapest hp is always goin ta be NOS. Hope that helped

[SeVeReDiStOrTiOn]

Ahhhh dude...giving LS1's a bad name;) What gear did you start off in? And yes put 91+ octane in you cheap ass:)...a couple extra bucks a fill up isn't gonna kill you. He also prob has more mods then he's telling you...does he have boost controller?

[Danger731]

light car with good power
a guy at work has an upgraded stage 3
http://www.mopar.com/srt_stage_1.htm

[PureSpeed]

do you have a v-8 or a v-6?? Cause i just raced some kid with a stock srt-4 last night that was talkin some smack...i blew his doors off. I even took off the ASR to spin the tires a bit :burnout:

[SeVeReDiStOrTiOn]

The stage 1 is only 240hp/260tq at the crank...even though it's kind of a light car(2970lbs) he isn't gonna pull you like that unless he's hiding mods...he might even have a small shot of spray. You should have around 290-320rwhp depending on how "strong" your ls1 is from the factory.

[Seancass]

haha, you got smoked. srt-4s are kinda quick. im not suprised. you need to get some more mods.

[badfnz28]

I have to say I'm surprised. I'm not talkin smack, but were your shifts clean at all? Anyway, if you can launch that thing..race him from a dig and you will kill him as long as you can bang those gears. I raced a guy with a stage 2 kit when I only had a lid and cutout and he never had a chance.

[nevrlift]

The stage 1 is only 240hp/260tq at the crank...even though it's kind of a light car(2970lbs) he isn't gonna pull you like that unless he's hiding mods...he might even have a small shot of spray. You should have around 290-320rwhp depending on how "strong" your ls1 is from the factory.

WERD....

my buddy has a 05 ACR with stage II...3" turbo back exh dumped out the side, aem intake, forge bov and a 75 shot wet....he dyno'd a couple weeks ago, put down 241/247....w/o n20

i think that dude was BSing you....I have A LID, LT's 3" ory and borlamouth exh and he cant pull me from a roll or a dig race....dude prolly has stage II

[CamaroKillZ28]

I will walk the srt4 all day long.....what gear did you downshift to? maybe thats ur problem, i know around 45mph that second hits hard, not too many things that can catch me...

[jomo]

Hey srt-4's are quick little cars. With stage 3 it is over 300hp, not to bad.
There are some out the puting down 500-600whp!! Look at turbochargers.com

[ss~zoso~ss]

the one thing that would give him an edge in addition to what he told u his mods were, he probably had a boost controller, that allows the waste gate to stay closed longer therefore producing more boost, he may have the boost up to 25lbs for all you know, but u can be certian that won't last long on stock internals! :)

[volksmech1]

well here is the deal. i was at the track saturday. there were 3 of them out there. 2 were stock running 14 and 13.8 then there was the modded one running a pretty consistent 12.2- 12.5 range

[wzup1000]

ok I was startin at 40 in second gear, hit all of my shifts clean at around 4200-4500 rpm, I think he had a boost control also, he seemed like one of those types who doesnt like to give out info on his ride... I talked to a friend of his, and he says the guy may have a stage 2 or even 3 kit.. so i dont know what to think.

I have had this car about a month now and Im starting to get into the mods, but cant do too much since I purchased an extended warranty, on top of the fact that (like I said) I have a really tight budget, and am making car, school loans, insurance, apartment, cell, cable...etc, and considering I am 18 years old and am attending school with a shitty paying job, i think that i have the right to be a cheap ass...

Anyway its not an excuse for losing, but for the record I didnt get smoked... the most I got beat by was about 3/4 a car....

[wzup1000]

We didnt get up to 120, but do yall think by then I would start gaining even passing him?

[badfnz28]

You were shifting at 4200-4500 in a ls1 m6? THAT'S WHY YOU LOST. Race him again and shift at about 6000. You're not gonna hurt that thing unless you miss a gear pretty bad. And if he only beat you by a car length his car is not modded much at all.

[CamaroKillZ28]

Yah man you at least have to let your powerband expand up to 5300rpms...i shift around there or a lil higher...6 is too high, you arent making enough power up there with a stock cam. Next time just let him have it....good luck and happy hunting!

[pewter02z]

You should take him if you start shifting atleast in the 5500+ range. I can imagine how far in rpms you are dropping shifting that early.

[ss~zoso~ss]

yea that is not the proper rpm range to race something that quick, that'd 'be fine if you were racing a civic or any kind of slower car

[mogs01gt]

wow talk about driver error. You should easily walk that neon when you pull the gears high in the power band.

[woodymaro]

no offence butDUDE SHIFT AT 6G'S AND STOP PUTTING IN 87 OCTANE!!!!:spank2:

[gettin sideways]

wow, how can you shift at 4500max and think your gonna win? i dont mean any offense or anything but honestly...

[EE1983]

EDIT: Listen to these guys, shift at 6! Youll smoke his ass next time

[CamaroKillZ28]

6 is too high....Im telling you that a stock cam doesnt make enough power at that rpm, most after market cams stop making power after 6000....thats just what I have read, but you def need to shift higher 5500 is a good solid shift

[lee1rbc]

If you had a better tach I would say shift at 6200rpms, but do to f-body tachs reading slow I would shift at 6000. My car stock was 291rwhp at 5400rpms. At 6200rpms I put down 275rwhp. At 4500rpms I put down 275rwhp. If you take the car up to 6100rpms you will nvr fall below 275rwhp. If you shift at 4500rpms you will nvr go above 275rwhp. 87 oct???? lol

[LS1Power06]

yeah definetly try shifting up around 6K. it will keep the revs up much higher in the torque band the next gear. SSmoke that SRT-4s ass and show him what an F-Bodies ass looks like!

RyAn

[lee1rbc]

Wow, I just did a little math and if You shifted from 4500rpms from 2nd to 3rd You would drop to around 3200rpms. That's about 170rwhp. I would love to see the look on your face the first time you shift 1st to 2nd at 6k. Just make sure Your not on a tight road with alot of parked cars.

[CamaroKillZ28]

If you had a better tach I would say shift at 6200rpms, but do to f-body tachs reading slow I would shift at 6000. My car stock was 291rwhp at 5400rpms. At 6200rpms I put down 275rwhp. At 4500rpms I put down 275rwhp. If you take the car up to 6100rpms you will nvr fall below 275rwhp. If you shift at 4500rpms you will nvr go above 275rwhp. 87 oct???? lol

Wanna explain y you would shift so high when your losing horsepower...am i not clear on something, I know an a4 shifts at 5800!

[wzup1000]

Well I remember an earlier post about bending stock pushrods at over 4500 rpm, so I was doing the safest thing that I thought possible...

I cant remember exactly who posted it, but it was on ls1.com... anyways like i said i am pretty new to this car, but thanks for the input...I guess ill call that srt back out!!!

[LS666]

Would GM do that, I mean, really, put in POS pushrods like that? Shifting that low you never let your motor work. At that RPM it's just getting started and your cutting it off.

[lee1rbc]

OK this is why You shift at 6000rpms. For this explanation lets just say that when the car shifts it drops 2000rpms. Below is a reading of my car on the dyno.

3500rpms 210hp
3750rpms 225hp
4000rpms 245hp
4250rpms 260hp
4500rpms 275hp
4750rpms 285hp
5000rpms 295hp
5250rpms 305hp
5500rpms 305hp
5750rpms 300hp
6000rpms 295hp
6250rpms 285hp

Now my peak power is at 5500rpms, but if I shift at 5500 I will drop to 3500rpms (210hp). Now, If I dont shift until 6k I will start to loose hp but I will still be over 285hp. Also when I shift I will only drop to 4000rpms(245hp). Ideally if the valves didn't float at 6,300rpms I would shift at around 6400rpms. That would keep my power above 260hp.

[CamaroKillZ28]

yah...hmm maybe ill start shifting a lil higher, I just didnt see it justified out like that before, thanx for the info...its good to know!

[lee1rbc]

Also when I had 3.42 installed I had my shift points changed to 6000rpms.

15yrs ago I had a 88 5.0 and I would shift at 4200rpms because thats what peak hp was. But then I let this ex drag racing mechanic who built AHRA pro stock motors in the 60s and 70s drive the car. He starts running up first gear 4k then 5k, then 5500rpms. I yell out, why aren't you shifting!?!? And he said, its still pulling.

[wzup1000]

Thanks for the info...

[mogs01gt]

Well I remember an earlier post about bending stock pushrods at over 4500 rpm, so I was doing the safest thing that I thought possible...

I cant remember exactly who posted it, but it was on ls1.com... anyways like i said i am pretty new to this car, but thanks for the input...I guess ill call that srt back out!!!
that happens when you over rev, like missing a shift.

[Danger731]

too soon a shift, my power band starts to break 300 rwhp at 3800 rpm, at 4500 it's still climbing, give your car a chance.

[toneloc60]

You were shifting at 4200-4500 in a ls1 m6? THAT'S WHY YOU LOST. Race him again and shift at about 6000. You're not gonna hurt that thing unless you miss a gear pretty bad.
Seriously! Why would you shift between 4200-4500? You just started tapping the HP in the LS1 at that point. Race him again.:slap:

[woodymaro]

that happens when you over rev, like missing a shift.
If you miss a shift your rev limiter stops you from over revving your motor. The only way I have heard some one bending a push rod is if they are going threw the gears hard and accidently go into a lot lower gear, for instance 1st to 2nd, 2nd wanting to go to 3rd but accidently going to 1st again and letting out the clutch. If my math is correct and you take your 2nd gear to 6k rpm's and then go to 1st and let out the clutch it would drive your rpm's threw the roof at a pushrod bending 8,250 RPM!!! :(

[LS0NE]

its pretty common knowledge to shift at or right before redline. im surprised at how many people shift early on this forum. in the s2000, you have to let the redline blink 2-3 times before shifting (9000 rpms). even though power drops off (at 8300 in the S2000), itll keep you in the powerband so you can keep pulling. thats why chevrolet made the rpms go up to 6...
-Chris

[EVO8 driver]

Those srt4's have good top end in the 4cyl arena. I should know.

[mogs01gt]

If you miss a shift your rev limiter stops you from over revving your motor. The only way I have heard some one bending a push rod is if they are going threw the gears hard and accidently go into a lot lower gear, for instance 1st to 2nd, 2nd wanting to go to 3rd but accidently going to 1st again and letting out the clutch. If my math is correct and you take your 2nd gear to 6k rpm's and then go to 1st and let out the clutch it would drive your rpm's threw the roof at a pushrod bending 8,250 RPM!!! :(
hmm by your logic, even if you down shift you would still hit the rev limiter. :burnout: Both instances would result in the same thing.

Over revving is exactly what you just posted.

[lee1rbc]

Actually, if You do drop it in the wrong gear a rev limiter cant help You.

[woodymaro]

hmm by your logic, even if you down shift you would still hit the rev limiter. :burnout: Both instances would result in the same thing.

Over revving is exactly what you just posted.
NO, actually they are totally different when you miss a shift and hit the rev limiter (not actually in a gear) the computer electronically cuts power to the motor. When you are racing and accidently put it into a lower gear and let off the clutch there is nothing there to limit your engine speed, therefore the speed of your car drives the engine to a pushrod bending 8,250 revolutions per minute. Do you understand what I am saying now?

[lee1rbc]

To me it seems like a conspiracy. Probably drumned up by a bunch Honda vtec racers who said. "How can we beat those american muscle cars? OH, I know, well just start a campain were we tell everyone that pushrod motors can only rev up to 4,500rpms, after that they well start to fall apart!"

[LS0NE]

To me it seems like a conspiracy. Probably drumned up by a bunch Honda vtec racers who said. "How can we beat those american muscle cars? OH, I know, well just start a campain were we tell everyone that pushrod motors can only rev up to 4,500rpms, after that they well start to fall apart!"

what...?
-Chris

[lee1rbc]

OK, that wasn't nice of me.
But seriously, I hear people all the time stereo typing the LS1 because its a pushrod V8, saying its a primitive motor.

[LS0NE]

OK, that wasn't nice of me.
But seriously, I hear people all the time stereo typing the LS1 because its a pushrod V8, saying its a primitive motor.

thats funny because where i usually post (s2ki.com - s2000 forums) people know the potential of the LS1. pushrod or not, its a beast when you start modding them; hell even in stock trim its capable of low 13s, high 12s with the right driver.
-Chris

[mogs01gt]

NO, actually they are totally different when you miss a shift and hit the rev limiter (not actually in a gear) the computer electronically cuts power to the motor. When you are racing and accidently put it into a lower gear and let off the clutch there is nothing there to limit your engine speed, therefore the speed of your car drives the engine to a pushrod bending 8,250 revolutions per minute. Do you understand what I am saying now?
The ECU that controls the rev limiter shouldnt see a different whether the car has missed a shift or is in the wrong gear. Going over the programmed RPM is over revving. Doesnt matter anyway you want to put it. The ECU should handle it whether you shifted into the wrong gear, held the gear to long or over revved by missing a gear.

If you held 2nd gear to long and bounced it off the rev limiter, the ECU would see no difference if driver went from 3rd to 2nd, its the same concept and the rev limiter should kick in.

[lee1rbc]

The difference between over reving and dropping to the wrong gear is that when you go from second to first the trans forces Your rpms to over rev. The rev limiter will still kick in, but even if you shut off the car, it will still be forced by the trans to rev at a higher rpm.

[mogs01gt]

The difference between over reving and dropping to the wrong gear is that when you go from second to first the trans forces Your rpms to over rev. The rev limiter will still kick in, but even if you shut off the car, it will still be forced by the trans to rev at a higher rpm.
yep and no matter how it happens, its still over revving the engine.

[woodymaro]

yep and no matter how it happens, its still over revving the engine.
YES AND THE DIFFERENCE IS ONE WILL START AND RUN PERFECT THE NEXT DAY(missing a shift) AND THE OTHER WILL HAVE A BENT PUSH ROD (dropping in the wrong gear)!!!!! I know they are both called over revving I understand this. Here is an experiment for you Mogs01gt, go buy an LS1 make sure it has good oil and pressure then let it warm up for 10 minutes, next pull it out of gear and mat the Throttle for 30 secs the motor will sit there and bounce off the rev limiter.( car will still run perfect). Experiment #2 get going 100 mph in your LS1 and SLAM it into 1st gear and quickly let out the clutch. Out come is an over revved motor w/ bent push rods. That is all I'm saying both over rev but one of them has a damaged motor. END OF STORY!!!

[LS666]

will it even go into first at 100mph? At that speed, slipping it into third will probably grenade it and introduce you to the weeds ta boot.

[mogs01gt]

YES AND THE DIFFERENCE IS ONE WILL START AND RUN PERFECT THE NEXT DAY(missing a shift) AND THE OTHER WILL HAVE A BENT PUSH ROD (dropping in the wrong gear)!!!!! I know they are both called over revving I understand this. Here is an experiment for you Mogs01gt, go buy an LS1 make sure it has good oil and pressure then let it warm up for 10 minutes, next pull it out of gear and mat the Throttle for 30 secs the motor will sit there and bounce off the rev limiter.( car will still run perfect). Experiment #2 get going 100 mph in your LS1 and SLAM it into 1st gear and quickly let out the clutch. Out come is an over revved motor w/ bent push rods. That is all I'm saying both over rev but one of them has a damaged motor. END OF STORY!!!
hmm sounds like the ls1 ecu doesnt work to well.

and I wouldnt want to bring an ls1 if I had it.:yup:

[lee1rbc]

Im sorry mogs01gt, but the same thing would happen to Your car.

Try driving down the road and turn the key to the off position. If You are in neutrel the car will completely die. But if You are in gear the motor will still be turning rpm's. (Because the trans is forcing the motor to turn.)

In other words You can drive up to 100mph, cut the motor off, have a friend climb out the window and rip the ECU out, and then throw the car into first, the trans will still force the motor turn at the same rpms as the drivetrain.

[toneloc60]

hmm sounds like the ls1 ecu doesnt work to well.

and I wouldnt want to bring an ls1 if I had it.:yup:
Are you joking, or are you actually being serious? I hope you're joking because I don't think I've ever met someone as dense as you're letting on to me.

By the way, my buddy with his S/C'd '01 Mustang GT dropped from 5th to 2nd on accident at 70 mph. He's lucky all he did was throw the serp belt and destroy his tensioner. Yes, bad things happen to Mustangs when people screw up too. A rev limiter wont help you on a bad downshift.

[mogs01gt]

Are you joking, or are you actually being serious? I hope you're joking because I don't think I've ever met someone as dense as you're letting on to me.

By the way, my buddy with his S/C'd '01 Mustang GT dropped from 5th to 2nd on accident at 70 mph. He's lucky all he did was throw the serp belt and destroy his tensioner. Yes, bad things happen to Mustangs when people screw up too. A rev limiter wont help you on a bad downshift.
yes I was joking there :). I have never dont that, I pride myself in know how to shift properly.

But when I first bought the car, I missed a shift on my first day going into 3rd and it did bounce off the rev limiter.

[toneloc60]

okay. I wasn't sure.

[woodymaro]

In other words You can drive up to 100mph, cut the motor off, have a friend climb out the window and rip the ECU out.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: That is freakin' funny!!!!

[mogs01gt]

Im sorry mogs01gt, but the same thing would happen to Your car.

Try driving down the road and turn the key to the off position. If You are in neutrel the car will completely die. But if You are in gear the motor will still be turning rpm's. (Because the trans is forcing the motor to turn.)

In other words You can drive up to 100mph, cut the motor off, have a friend climb out the window and rip the ECU out, and then throw the car into first, the trans will still force the motor turn at the same rpms as the drivetrain.
You do realize that a rev limiter is electronically controlled, not mechanical. So all that stuff you just wrote doesn’t mean anything ;). There wouldnt be a rev limiter if the car was off.

[lee1rbc]

Originally Posted by mogs01gt
You do realize that a rev limiter is electronically controlled, not mechanical. So all that stuff you just wrote doesn’t mean anything ;). There wouldnt be a rev limiter if the car was off.

HOW DO YOU THINK A REV LIMITER WORKS??????

[lee1rbc]

This Mustang driver walks into a auto parts store and asks the guy at the cashier,"Can I buy that chrome air cleaner?" He replies,"No im sorry we don't sell to Mustang drivers." So he goes home and sells his car for a Dodge. he goes back and asks" Can I buy that chrome air cleaner?" "No im sorry we don't sell to Mustang drivers" So he goes home and does the same thing with a Chevy, nissan, Pontiac . The last time he goes in and says "How do you always know who I am?" He replies "Because thats a hubcap.":lol:

[got-a-ls1]

if its hitting the rev limiter, its not over revving now is it? Its just at the safe limit.

The only way to over rev the motor is mechanically, with the transmission driving the engine. Even if the computer cuts the fuel and spark the motor is still going to spin at whatever speed the the transmission makes it.

If you missed a shift in your ford, it would do the same thing. You may have heard the computer cutting fuel and spark, but it would still over rev the engine. No electronics could stop it unless they prevented the missed shift in the first place.

[toneloc60]

This Mustang driver walks into a auto parts store and asks the guy at the cashier,"Can I buy that chrome air cleaner?" He replies,"No im sorry we don't sell to Mustang drivers." So he goes home and sells his car for a Dodge. he goes back and asks" Can I buy that chrome air cleaner?" "No im sorry we don't sell to Mustang drivers" So he goes home and does the same thing with a Chevy, nissan, Pontiac . The last time he goes in and says "How do you always know who I am?" He replies "Because thats a hubcap.":lol:
good one.

[SRT4SC]

Those srt4's have good top end in the 4cyl arena. I should know.
Not really we die off around 5500 rpms.

[nhraformula]

6 is too high....Im telling you that a stock cam doesnt make enough power at that rpm, most after market cams stop making power after 6000....thats just what I have read, but you def need to shift higher 5500 is a good solid shift

you best read some more.
most aftermarket cams make plenty of power after 6k. mine does. dyno graphs show it.

[ur jlus]

This Mustang driver walks into a auto parts store and asks the guy at the cashier,"Can I buy that chrome air cleaner?" He replies,"No im sorry we don't sell to Mustang drivers." So he goes home and sells his car for a Dodge. he goes back and asks" Can I buy that chrome air cleaner?" "No im sorry we don't sell to Mustang drivers" So he goes home and does the same thing with a Chevy, nissan, Pontiac . The last time he goes in and says "How do you always know who I am?" He replies "Because thats a hubcap.":lol:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[mrr23]

The difference between over reving and dropping to the wrong gear is that when you go from second to first the trans forces Your rpms to over rev. The rev limiter will still kick in, but even if you shut off the car, it will still be forced by the trans to rev at a higher rpm.



when you downshift, the rev limiter doesn't kick in. the rev limiter works only during acceleration.

[shaitiger]

Aren't these 4's trapping 106-107 with bolt-ons? I can see why he pulled on you a tad.