Am I being BS'd

[shua01ss]

:help: Ok I have a couple of questions. Today I went by a local high performance tranny shop to inquire about a stall converter to get an idea of price for parts and labor. I have a 01 SS that at this time is stock, however I do plan to change that. I told the guy that I was thinking about something in the 3200rpm range for the stall speed and that at this time have the stock cam but would like something in the .580-.590 lift range. He then proceded to tell me that if I went with a cam that large that I would have to run a vacum pump or canister because a cam that size would not create enough vacum thus causing my power brakes to not work right or my dash vent controls, and etc. He also told me that I would need different heads because that is to much lift for the factory valves. He also told me that it would be too radical of a cam for street use. He then told me that a 3200 rpm stall converter is too radical for street ues and that the company who makes the converters he uses at his shop only make up to a 2800 rpm converter and that is even pretty radical for street use. I kinda just stood there dumb founded while he told me all this and needless to say I am a bit confused now.:thinkin: Can anyone shed some light on the matter for me? Also I live about 45 minutes north of the Tampa, Fl area, does anybody know of any good shops in that area?

[Blitzed]

your getting some bullshit, not all... but some

[baseballss]

the majority of that is bullshit, thats just him not being too knowledgeable on the subject and trying to sound like he is. i know the crap he said about the heads and cam is bs. not sure about the stall conv. thing. with the cam youll just have to upgrade your valvetrain. yes it will be bad for the street (if its not tuned!!). lol

[Sarge]

Well.....
I have a 588 lift cam...Patriot heads...LSX FAST Intake etc.etc....BULLSHIT!!!!!
I have a Precesion Industries 3500 stall........BULLSHIT!!!!!

[hammertime]

If all you gave him was a lift number, he has no idea how radical the cam is. I'm sure there are plenty of performance cams in the .580 - .590 range, many of them perfectly streetable in an automatic car.

Your best bet would be to talk to either the tuner who is marketing the cam you are interested in, or the cam manufacturer of your choice. Ideally, they can recommend a cam for you based on what you want to achieve and recommend a coverter and gears to match it.

[third_shift|studios]

zboner has a similar set up that he's been running into a4 shifting issues, here is his rig:

z28,ARP rod bolts,comp R lifters,228/230 .558/.591 112, 918 springs, hardend P/R's

basically his tranny is gettin killed, he desperatly needs a stall too. but the car runs fine on the street! that guy sounds like a retard.

[shua01ss]

Thanks guys I was pretty sure that this guy was givin me some bs. I am not the most knowledgable about these cars as I used to be a ford guy but ever since I bought my SS I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about it and what this guy was telling me just didn't sound right.

[Capster78]

It is borderline as far as vacume pressure goes. It might be a good idea to mod for that just to be on the safe side buy most people never have a problem. The stall is a personall preference kinda thing. Of course if all you work on is grocery getters all day a 3500 stall sounds kinda extreem when you compare it to a factory stall converter. This guy probably knows alot about general mechanics but knows little about Performance work, atleast thats how it sounds.

[DarthD]

I think he needs to do some research before making statements like that to a customer.

I have an SS3200 stall in my Corvette. I can barely tell the difference between it and the stock converter under normal driving. It only drops 200 rpms when the converter locks, just like the stock one.

I think a cheap converter would be a bad choice. My friend has a B&M 3000 stall in his Mustang and it is terrible on the street.

[Sarge]

Yup^^^^

[SteveC]

I have a Yank Y3000, 2.0 STR, coupled to 3.73 rearend gears, and a Transgo Shift Kit #3 washer, and I DID have some issues with the transmission shifting on my 01 Z28, the issues were corrected with a dyno tune. If I had to do it all over again, I would have gone to a 3200 stall, with a 2.2 STR, my vehicle other wise is stock, and is VERY streetable.

SteveC :)

[02z28ls1]

ok-this will be controversial too-but if you look closely at the responses that the guys are writing-they have modified the valve trains(springs at least) at least if not outright changed the heads when going with that kind of lift.So that makes the guy at the tranny shop right so far.According to what I'm reading right in front of me-the stock valvetrain cannot work with anything over a .530 lift.However you can use custom length pushrods to regain proper geometry.Sarge's car is heavily modified(correct me if I'm wrong Sarge)for example.Can you do all this stuff-yeah you can.Just be ready to shell out some bucks to correct whatever problems come with it.And the stall speed of a convertor is relative to how much power is applied through it-more power makes it slip more which makes more heat.If your driving around in city traffic and below the stall speed of the convertor then it's slipping and it's creating heat.You will need to at least change the rear axle ratio so the engine can run in a higher rpm range.I'm sure there will be people crying bullshit at me -but let's have an informed debate here and let's give this guy some facts.It takes money to go fast-how much money you got?That's how fast you can go.With that kind of cam you will need to change the exhaust and intake to take advantage of it-otherwise leave the cam alone and go with headers and intake mods first IMHO.

[bwinch]

My friend has a B&M 3000 stall in his Mustang and it is terrible on the street.
The mustang is probably part of the problem.

[shua01ss]

I dont plan on doing the cam for a while. I first want to do LT and full exhaust, lid, converter, 3:73's, and some other bolt ons. As far as a cam I would most deffinitly go with a full install kit with new springs, pr's, etc and have been lookin at Thunder racing and TSP. I would also get a good tune as well. I plan on doing this the right way. I would really like to know if there are any good shops that know these cars in the Tampa, FL area. I can't wait to get to the track either it reopens in a couple of weeks.

[DarthD]

The mustang is probably part of the problem.

I won't argue that one.:)

[02z28ls1]

I dont plan on doing the cam for a while. I first want to do LT and full exhaust, lid, converter, 3:73's, and some other bolt ons. As far as a cam I would most deffinitly go with a full install kit with new springs, pr's, etc and have been lookin at Thunder racing and TSP. I would also get a good tune as well. I plan on doing this the right way. I would really like to know if there are any good shops that know these cars in the Tampa, FL area. I can't wait to get to the track either it reopens in a couple of weeks.
It sounds like you have a good handle on doing things the right way-I don't like to assume that.There is a really good article (IMHO)on modifying the LS-1 in Hot Rod magazines Jan. 06 issue-they give an easily followed formula for getting up to 530 hp.Have Fun!

[shua01ss]

I will have to find that issue of Hot Rod. Thanks!

[GatorSS]

Sounds like you need to go to a different shop. At least you had enough sense to ask people here who have experience. When in doubt, always ask around and get as much information as necessary. Oh yeah, and be prepared for some BS along the way, just learn to smell it out so you don't follow it (or step in it).

[9sec302]

You have to look at like you're talking to a car salesman.
Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear.

If you're unfamiliar with the parts you plan to put on your car, he's going to attempt to get you to spend a lot of money in his shop (Like salesmen do to women). If you go and buy all of this, someone will have to put it on for you and why shouldnt it be him (the guy that's going to rape you on charges).

I have friends riding around in Zs with 3200 stalls daily driven.........

[02z28ls1]

If you owned your own home and had a plumbing problem you'd call a plumber-unless you could do it yourself.If you want your car worked on and you can do it yourself you will.If not- you're going to have to pay somebody to do it-and that somebody has a business to run.No it's not rape if the man asks you do you want something done and you say yes-it's up to you what you want to do.A business provides a service -you pay for it-the "salesman" needs to offer his services in order to stay in business.Shop around if you feel your being taken for a ride-go with the shop that you want.

[hammertime]

If you owned your own home and had a plumbing problem you'd call a plumber-unless you could do it yourself.If you want your car worked on and you can do it yourself you will.If not- you're going to have to pay somebody to do it-and that somebody has a business to run.No it's not rape if the man asks you do you want something done and you say yes-it's up to you what you want to do.A business provides a service -you pay for it-the "salesman" needs to offer his services in order to stay in business.Shop around if you feel your being taken for a ride-go with the shop that you want.

You make a good point here. There will always be guys out there who just want to make a buck on you, but if you don't have the knowledge, tools or time to do it on your own, then you have to be careful in the process of selecting who will do the work.

Most tuners are more apt to give you a break on parts and/or labor if you buy and have them install their parts. But you'll want to go with a reputable tuner that has done some work on LS1 and similar cars. You don't want some guy in a dirty old garage, or who has only worked on unmodified cars.

And before anyone assumes that because shop A is charing more than shop B and therefore raping the customer, get written estimates from both and see how detailed they are. Anyonce can quote you a price on cylinder heads and cam and a basic tune, but have they also figured on all the gaskets, fluids, new spark plugs, etc.

[rotwiler]

the only part I can comment on is the converter. I called around to all the shops in my area, looking for a converter. All they could offer me was a 2800, reason being was the shops just restall out the stock converters. I called many shops and all said, anything over a 2800 stall would be horrible to drive on the street. I put off getting one for a long time, but after reading peoples experience on many FBody related forums I went for one. I bought a SLP(yank) 2600 stealth stall. Was in my car for about 3 months and didn't do anything for me in the 1/4 mile...at most a 1/10 if I was lucky. So I finally decided to buy a Fuddle 3400 stall with a 2.1 STR after talking to Fuddle on the phone. I am very happy with the 3400, dropped my times a 1/2 second and my Z28 is my daily driver. I didn't need any tuning for normal driving, but I did change my shift points a little and rev limiter for at the track since it sometimes will bounce off it, but has been a issue since my 02 Z28 was new. The only thing the 3400 stall did for driveabilty was you have to push the gas more than stock. I love it and now I am finally in the 12's everytime I go to the track and a 3900 pound car with little mods. I still need a tune, because I get PWM(pulse width modulation) which is common...at lower rpms under around 1,900 if I lug the car it sounds like rocks rattling. It really isn't much of a issue since I have been driving like this for 6 months and doesn't happen much.

[RainMan]

:bs:

Sounds like "Old School Flat Tappet Cam" thinking.

You did tell him that it was an LS1 with a roller cam and the Cam you will be using will probably have a much wider LSA than conventional flat tappet cams! Didn't you? Ha Ha

Probably all he heard was ".590 lift and thought oh shit, circle track cam!
3200 stall!
Daily driver!
Does not compute!

I agree, talk to a tuner or someone up to speed on new roller motors and LSX tuning. Plus there is a lot of good info in this website if just do some digging.

I'm still learning about the Gen III motors as well, and had to dispel a lot of "Old School" beliefs that I hung onto. I've been building Gen 1 small blocks and Poncho motors since the late 70's. Lot of changes!

Good Luck:drivin: