Top end - 3.73 gears

[1TA LS1]

Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?

[wooddaniel]

Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?

Cam, Headers, Heads, and a tune.

[lemons12]

Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?

its faster.. just your powerband moved around..

a 2800 stall would be a waste of money really... the smallest should be a 3000.. depending on what cam you get, you could stay at a 3k or go higher if needed for the cam..

3500 is good for every day street use with a mild cam.. something like a 228 or something..

...... get LT's and a cutout.. before you do anything else though.. you get the sound and power..

after the LT's and converter, get an ls6 intake if you have a 98-00 model.. or preferably a FAST 90/90, depending on what size cam you want to go with later.

[1TA LS1]

2001, so I don't need an ls6 intake. Probably going with a 224 cam for my next big mod. Unfortunately, LT's are a problem in Cali. - Not going through that again..long story.

I have a borla cat-back and installing a cut-out once I get the stall in. I wanted to get a 3400 stall, but I keep hearing it's too much from every transmission shop I talk to. (I guess they don't know shit about our cars). I should just go with my gut. So, a 3400 stall and a tune get my kick in power back at the top-end?

[totalkos]

the cut out will help your top end if thats what you want.

[lemons12]

2001, so I don't need an ls6 intake. Probably going with a 224 cam for my next big mod. Unfortunately, LT's are a problem in Cali. - Not going through that again..long story.

I have a borla cat-back and installing a cut-out once I get the stall in. I wanted to get a 3400 stall, but I keep hearing it's too much from every transmission shop I talk to. (I guess they don't know shit about our cars). I should just go with my gut. So, a 3400 stall and a tune get my kick in power back at the top-end?

that good about the intake..

next mod should be a stall... and yes a 3400 would be perfect... usually shops are filled with a lot of old guys that think when you have a 3400 stall your car doesnt move untill 3400.. not that case anymore.... you can pick up at 2000rpms with a 3400 just fine.. are converters lock...

go with the 3400, you will be happy.. also get the cutout... then get a cam

[SteveC]

The difference between 3.23's and 3.73's (RPM wise) is 500RPM on the tach, you should not see any difference in the top end.

I have a Y3000 2.0STR converter coupled to 3.73's, and it makes the vehicle alot of fun to drive, HOWEVER if I had to do it all over again, I would get a 3600 stall. Yank makes a wonderful product.

SteveC :)

[1TA LS1]

Wish I could do everything at once. Just ordered a Yank 3400 stall converter. I also got a cut-out. It's going to be f-ing loud, can't wait to piss off the neighbors.

[volleybill]

You probably would benefit from a tune- just so your computer 'knows' how fast you are going- shift points are determined using both RPM and speed (and load, throttle position, etc) and right now the computer is seeing incorrect info- it senses vehicle speed from the VSS in the transmission, and, if it doesn't have the right rear end ratio the data will be wrong-

[c5z28]

2001, so I don't need an ls6 intake. Probably going with a 224 cam for my next big mod. Unfortunately, LT's are a problem in Cali. - Not going through that again..long story.


I'm in Cali so i'm going to ask, you get caught with the headers?

[Firebirdjones]

You probably would benefit from a tune- just so your computer 'knows' how fast you are going- shift points are determined using both RPM and speed (and load, throttle position, etc) and right now the computer is seeing incorrect info- it senses vehicle speed from the VSS in the transmission, and, if it doesn't have the right rear end ratio the data will be wrong-

Not only benifit from a tune but probably need it with a stall converter. Once the converter is installed it will trick the computer into thinking the trans is slipping and the computer will set misfire codes,,,then go into limp mode.
I installed a Fuddle 3400 stall and it's great,,,although I had to go into the tune and desensitize the misfire tables until the codes went away. I hear this is pretty common among the auto LS1's with stall converters.

[rel3rd]

... usually shops are filled with a lot of old guys that think when you have a 3400 stall your car doesnt move untill 3400.. not that case anymore....


Actually, that was NEVER the case with higher stall speed converters.

If anyone who works professionally in a shop (especially a performance shop) thinks that a car doesn't move until the stall speed is reached...I'd immediately search for another shop. Being an "old guy" myself, I'm 100% sure that age has nothing to do with cluelessness. You can be an idiot, or simply unable to understand how some mechanical items work, at any age.

BTW, a looser converter will not add or help top end. It will help low/mid range tremendously, but that's it. It WILL help your car get into the upper rpm's quicker, giving a "feeling" of more top end, but datalogs would show you different that what you feel. DEFINITELY a worthwhile investment for a street/strip car. My PI Vigilante 3600 (actual stall more like 4200) was too loose for stock engine IMHO, but is perfect now with my 6800 rpm shifting 226 baby cam. :zoom:

Like said above, you NEED to have tune changed to compensate for gear swap. Car's probably shifting too soon now and just "feels" slower. Also, like said above you'll need tune tweaking for converter as well. I know (before tuning) my car would not shift 2-3 until it bounced off the rev limiter a half dozen times.

[squee]

Even living in California, you should be able to get around the headers no problem. As long as you have cats, I don't think they would give you much shit. I doubt they would even do a visual inspection to be honest.

[Firebirdjones]

Even living in California, you should be able to get around the headers no problem. As long as you have cats, I don't think they would give you much shit. I doubt they would even do a visual inspection to be honest.

The problem isn't the headers per say,,,,it's moving the cats from their stock location that Cali doesn't like,,,,thats what you can't get around.

[squee]

The problem isn't the headers per say,,,,it's moving the cats from their stock location that Cali doesn't like,,,,thats what you can't get around.

Yea, I know that, but if they don't do a visual inspection, then they won't know. Of course they probably do a visual inspection no matter what. Especially since what type of car it is...

[DKITCHEN]

I still have stock manifolds on my CETA with a 226 cam and a 3000 stall converter. After an excellent tune the car drives as smooth as stock, with significantly more power. I also still have the stock exhaust but with an electric cutout for the track and stock 3.23 gears.

[1TA LS1]

I was planning on getting a tune about a month after I get the stall and some other stuff installed.....To answer c5z28 question: I never got caught with LT header, but I had problems selling my 03 Tacoma which had visual problems getting it CA smog legal. I had to go through so much crap getting it back to stock. My first mod was going to be LTs on the Trans Am, but couldn't find a decent shop that would move the cats and don't want to get caught with it later - not worth the $$ for the gains.

[SteveC]

I was planning on getting a tune about a month after I get the stall

You will want to get a 24K trans cooler installed, B&M manufactures a great unit, you also may consider replacing the stock flexplate with a TCI SF29 race grade unit ($199) at the time of the TC install. Look into a TransGo shift kit.

My vehicle is not lowered, so I opted for a B&M 3 Qt. deeper aluminum transmission pan, more fluid coupled to cooler=lower transmission temperature.

You will need to get the vehicle on the dyno to correct some settings in the pcm, one being the elimination of the torque management system, and raising of the idle RPM depending on the OD of the new TC. Your shift points will need to be adjusted.

DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.

SteveC :)

[Firebirdjones]

Yea, I know that, but if they don't do a visual inspection, then they won't know. Of course they probably do a visual inspection no matter what. Especially since what type of car it is...

Ya you would be really taking a chance hoping to get by without a visual,,,it doesn't take much for them to flash the mirror under the car.
The only real way around it is to be willing to switch the car back and forth from headers to manifolds and back again just to get through the sniffer.

Sounds like alot of work but I guess it depends on how bad you want the extra performance.

[Firebirdjones]

You will want to get a 24K trans cooler installed, B&M manufactures a great unit, you also may consider replacing the stock flexplate with a TCI SF29 race grade unit ($199) at the time of the TC install. Look into a TransGo shift kit.

My vehicle is not lowered, so I opted for a B&M 3 Qt. deeper aluminum transmission pan, more fluid coupled to cooler=lower transmission temperature.

You will need to get the vehicle on the dyno to correct some settings in the pcm, one being the elimination of the torque management system, and raising of the idle RPM depending on the OD of the new TC. Your shift points will need to be adjusted.

DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.

SteveC :)


Great advice on the cooler,,,it's especially critical if you are hard on the car at all.
Thats something I just haven't gotten around to doing unfortunately,,,I haven't figured out how or found an aftermarket supplier that is smart enough to tell me how to connect the tranny hard line to another hard line running to the cooler and back again. So I just skipped the cooler for the time being until I have more time to investigate.

[squee]

Ya you would be really taking a chance hoping to get by without a visual,,,it doesn't take much for them to flash the mirror under the car.
The only real way around it is to be willing to switch the car back and forth from headers to manifolds and back again just to get through the sniffer.

Sounds like alot of work but I guess it depends on how bad you want the extra performance.

I'm pretty sure they won't hook our cars up to the sniffer since there OBDII. Only reason they would do that is if there was a code or something, and even then, if you still use cats, even if there moved, the sniffer won't be able to tell.

[Firebirdjones]

I'm pretty sure they won't hook our cars up to the sniffer since there OBDII. Only reason they would do that is if there was a code or something, and even then, if you still use cats, even if there moved, the sniffer won't be able to tell.

Sorry,,,when I said sniffer,,,I meant the smog test in general. Kind of a generalization if you will. Where I'm from we just call those tests sniffers whether they are hooked up to the pipe or not.

[squee]

Sorry,,,when I said sniffer,,,I meant the smog test in general. Kind of a generalization if you will. Where I'm from we just call those tests sniffers whether they are hooked up to the pipe or not.

Gotcha. I just get my inspection stickers from a friend, so I don't really worry about it. :hide:

[lemons12]

did i see someone post that they had a stall on no tranny cooler...... :think:


id be looking into that... or youll be :spank: yourself soon..

[1TA LS1]

You will want to get a 24K trans cooler installed, B&M manufactures a great unit, you also may consider replacing the stock flexplate with a TCI SF29 race grade unit ($199) at the time of the TC install. Look into a TransGo shift kit.

My vehicle is not lowered, so I opted for a B&M 3 Qt. deeper aluminum transmission pan, more fluid coupled to cooler=lower transmission temperature.

You will need to get the vehicle on the dyno to correct some settings in the pcm, one being the elimination of the torque management system, and raising of the idle RPM depending on the OD of the new TC. Your shift points will need to be adjusted.

DO IT ONCE, DO IT RIGHT.

SteveC :)

DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. -Live by that saying, embedded into my brain from my high school football coach. I am also installing a 21K B&M Trans Cooler and a TransGo shift kit with the TC. Waiting for those in the mail, should get here any time now. There is no way I would put that much heat on my tranny without a cooler. My cars lowered, so I just went with the TCI polished pan. I just like the fact that you can drain the fluid without removing the whole pan. The stock pan is a POS. Dyno tune, I am taking it to a corvette tuner who was highly recommended.

[Firebirdjones]

did i see someone post that they had a stall on no tranny cooler...... :think:


id be looking into that... or youll be :spank: yourself soon..

Haha,,that was me. I was just talking to Orion about it.

Actually I've logged the car, and around town driving the trans temps stay parallel with the engine temps,,,just like the stock converter did. It locks up around 40 mph anyway so cruising around isn't much of a concern for me right now.
The only time I was able to raise the trans temps was when I would lean on the car for 6-8 seconds. Even then only raised the temps 12-15 degrees,,,nothing in the danger zone. It cooled right back down when I got civilized with it.
The biggest problem would be trying to run 1/4 mile passes with it. That would cause heat issues with no drive around time to cool it off really.
Which is why I am refraining from any 1/4 mile assults until the cooler is in there. I just need to figure out how to keep everything hard lines,,and connect that stupid metric tranny line with what I think has 0-rings to a union and continue the metal line to the cooler and back.

Until then street driving around town has had no affect on trans temps for me,,,,as I said at 40 mph it's locked up anyway just like a stocker.

Hope that explains things a bit.

[Firebirdjones]

I just like the fact that you can drain the fluid without removing the whole pan. The stock pan is a POS.

You still have to drop the pan to install a new filter. Nothing wrong with the stock pan. The only thing you gained was a drain plug,,,shucks you can install one of those easy enough in the stock pan if thats all you were after,,,and saved yourself a bunch of coin.

[lemons12]

Haha,,that was me. I was just talking to Orion about it.

Actually I've logged the car, and around town driving the trans temps stay parallel with the engine temps,,,just like the stock converter did. It locks up around 40 mph anyway so cruising around isn't much of a concern for me right now.
The only time I was able to raise the trans temps was when I would lean on the car for 6-8 seconds. Even then only raised the temps 12-15 degrees,,,nothing in the danger zone. It cooled right back down when I got civilized with it.
The biggest problem would be trying to run 1/4 mile passes with it. That would cause heat issues with no drive around time to cool it off really.
Which is why I am refraining from any 1/4 mile assults until the cooler is in there. I just need to figure out how to keep everything hard lines,,and connect that stupid metric tranny line with what I think has 0-rings to a union and continue the metal line to the cooler and back.

Until then street driving around town has had no affect on trans temps for me,,,,as I said at 40 mph it's locked up anyway just like a stocker.

Hope that explains things a bit.
what size stall..

[Firebirdjones]

what size stall..

It's a 3400 from fuddle. I believe with a 2.1 STR.

Seems to be a great little converter. Should support a mild camshaft,,that is if I ever get around to doing that too,,,lol.

[c5z28]

DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. -Live by that saying, embedded into my brain from my high school football coach. I am also installing a 21K B&M Trans Cooler and a TransGo shift kit with the TC. Waiting for those in the mail, should get here any time now. There is no way I would put that much heat on my tranny without a cooler. My cars lowered, so I just went with the TCI polished pan. I just like the fact that you can drain the fluid without removing the whole pan. The stock pan is a POS. Dyno tune, I am taking it to a corvette tuner who was highly recommended.

who is the tuner? in nor-cal or so-cal?

[qwkgto]

Installed 3.73 gears about 3 weeks ago (went from 3.23). Breaking them in for the first 200 miles. Test drove today: 5mph to 60 mph, much quicker. But top end, around 60-90mph, I felt like it was slower than before. I figured I'd lose top end power. My next mod is going to be a Torque converter (2800 stall) and a shift kit. Also, I was planning on installing a cam next year. Any ideas how to get more top end power?
turbos,but then you will want to put them higher gears back in.